Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[Badger3k]

Never heard of this game until now. Looks mildly interesting, but from the attitude of the designers, I wouldn't give them my money even if it sounded like a killer game. I like quite a few indy games (recently played "The Cave" a side-scrolling puzzle game which has an interessting storyline and no violence at all), but some of them give off that arrogant "we're better than you" attitude. Maybe pretentious is the word?

The Cave eh? I'll have to give that a look. I like mah puzzle games.
Have you played Limbo or Braid?

No - Limbo looked interesting, but I hadn't really looked at Braid. Looking at the wiki articles on them, I may need to add them to a list of things to try later. I am not sure how many platforms it is on, but Stacking is a quirky puzzle game that is some fun, although it can be frustrating. Maybe this needs to go to the videogame thread if we continue this?

[Jan Steen]

In their craving for a speaking gig at WiS3, Ophie and Steffy have left someone out in the cold. Because of her boycott of CFI, Rebecca Watson has now become thoroughly isolated. Ron Lindsay has skilfully created a rift between FTB and Skepchick with his apology. He must have known that it would never have been acceptable to Watson.

This commenter at Ophie’s is not happy:

I’m staying grudging too. I understand why some might want to let Lindsay off the hook but ignoring the tone of his apology is,at best, expedient. If self-interest (i.e. not burning bridges with CFI) is a good enough reason to ignore the churlishness and adolescent gritted-teeth-ness of the statement when practically anything else on the Interswebz is minutely dissected for tone then it is horribly hypocritical.

While I’m prepared to accept what Stephanie says about what’s gone on behind the scenes, her oh-so-morally-superior remark in the comments about not getting into tone has really set my teeth on edge.

:popcorn:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /06/onward

[Gefan]

Which leads me to ask, what exactly is the down side for Lindsay and CFI to simply and definitively tell the entire poisonous rabble to fuck off?
These clowns don't pay anyone's salary. They alienate the wider public. They are an embarrassment. "Don't let the door hit you on your inflamed red ass on the way out", should surely have been a more sensible response.

And I think that's exactly what they would do, but politics gets in the way. Execrable or not PZ and his minions have a lot of internet influence in the community, and they're quite good at raising shitstorms. Lindsay politely doesn't kiss the Axis's collective asses, PZ and his pals start a bullying shitstorm. The shitstorm would be of Yellowstone megavolcano proportion if CFI just told them flat out to fuck off. CFI has a business to run and they want to appear as reasonable to as wide a group of people as possible. Of course, the risk they take is going full Neville Chamberlain. That hurts them just as much as telling PZ to fuck himself.

Given the length of time it has taken for Lindsay to issue this "apology", and given how carefully parsed it seemed to be, I'm thinking that CFI is playing pure politics and walking the tightrope as best they can.

I agree with all of the above, and I have precisely zero access to CFI's internal calculations but it seems to me that you might as well say; "fuck it. let's get this over with" and have the damn fight.
The way they're going this is only going to get worse.

[Whig]

FreeOK 2013 summary:

Jamila Bey-- Missed her talk cause partner had to work until 3 am. Glad we didnt rush to get there because she came in via Skype and it did not work at all, apparently. :(

Sean Faircloth-- LUVS. They have got some cool shit up their sleeves. Real shit for getting some things changed in US politics (NOTE: its not rage blogging). Faircloth is also a complete gentleman-- the autograph line for all the speakers was getting long, so he walked back through the line signing things/taking pics, and striking up conversations with pretty much every nearby attendee over the course of the day. Impressed me as a genuine hard working nice guy. Glad Richard seems to have someone of appropriate caliber with RDFRS.

Dale McGowan-- LUVS. His talk on secular parenting was fantastic. I agreed with pretty much everything he said, looking back on my freethinking upbringing. You can raise an Atheist kid, or you can raise a freethinking kid. You can tell kids what to think, or you can help them learn how to think. Great talk.

Emily Boyer-- I have no idea what her position is on feminism. Was a bit annoyed at one of her tweets re: line in mens room no line for ladies room lol secular conferences, when there were many women at this conference. Anyway, her talk was also SUPER FANTASTIC. I started a round of applause for the HPV vaccine when she mentioned it. Great, educational, but she gave out her phone number so people could send her anon questions about sex for the Q&A. She should get a Google Voice # for this and have the account forward it to her cell. She really shouldnt do that with her real phone # cause people suck. If anyone knows her, passing on the pro-tip would be nice :)

Zack Popplin-- ADORABLE. He showed a video of a state senate member (blonde female) badgering him about 'the little letters after peoples names' on this list he gave them (Nobel winners opposing the Creationism bill in Louisiana). Of course the punchline was 'lol stupid politician', but that lady would have gotten a talkin to from me. She was being extremely aggressive and confrontational with a child (he had to have been 16, 17 in that), completely and utterly inappropriate behavior for an elected official.

Seth Andrews-- There really are no words for how much I love Seth. As Ive said before, just being *around* him can make anyone look and feel better. Positive, real guy.

Lawrence Krauss-- Science! I got a B in Physics II (winces), I followed him well enough to get the punchline (scientists working on the backs of other scientists for generation after generation led to the Higgs) and he used a penis joke to explain relativity (SHRINKAGE!)

Great time, YAY for the organizers and volunteers and as always, all of the attendees were fantastic to talk with too. So many new friends in one day :-D

Zack's stupid state legislator videos are great. At least there is a teaching creationism firewall around Orleans parish.

[Gefan]

Benson says next years WIS could invite Christina Hoff Sommers, who is, according to them, an anti-feminist of Slympit proportions. Of course as they hate listening to anyone who is not fully onside there was protest about that idea.

Then Benson says:

'She’s the source of most of the talking points of anti-feminists, so she would be the right person to have that discussion of the stuff Ron talked about, and Nussbaum would be the ideal opponent.'

Is it me or is she actually suggesting the feminism promoted by them is now open to enquiry, discussion and critical analysis? That goes against everything most of FtB would ever put up with. It's why Lindsay was hung out to dry as that's exactly what he was doing.

Is Benson remembering her roots as someone who once believed nothing should be free from examination. If so that is a radical turn around.

Allow me to translate:
"Please run another conference next year. And invite me to speak (of course). And pay my expenses (natch). And I will be so reasonable and ecumenical. Really, I'm actually a very open-minded person".

[Badger3k]

In their craving for a speaking gig at WiS3, Ophie and Steffy have left someone out in the cold. Because of her boycott of CFI, Rebecca Watson has now become thoroughly isolated. Ron Lindsay has skilfully created a rift between FTB and Skepchick with his apology. He must have known that it would never have been acceptable to Watson.

This commenter at Ophie’s is not happy:

I’m staying grudging too. I understand why some might want to let Lindsay off the hook but ignoring the tone of his apology is,at best, expedient. If self-interest (i.e. not burning bridges with CFI) is a good enough reason to ignore the churlishness and adolescent gritted-teeth-ness of the statement when practically anything else on the Interswebz is minutely dissected for tone then it is horribly hypocritical.

While I’m prepared to accept what Stephanie says about what’s gone on behind the scenes, her oh-so-morally-superior remark in the comments about not getting into tone has really set my teeth on edge.

:popcorn:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /06/onward

Yep - maybe Lindsay took the gamble that this would set off a feeding frenzy between the true ideologues and the self-serving pseudo-ideologues? We already know they will eat their own at the slightest sign of deviancy, and we may see more "deep rifts" developing. Watson really has been getting marginalized by the FtB attention-whores, and this puts another nail there. Will those who accepted Lindsay's apology be invited or disninvited to Skepticon? Will Skepticon now plead for money from CFI, saying they accept the apology and want the sponsorship back (ie, the donations aren't enough)?

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[BarnOwl]

Ophie has now swallowed her pride and has turned into an apology apologist:

So now I think my post yesterday on Ron’s apology was too grudging. It read as chilly to me then, but see Stephanie’s post for reasons to think it’s not. (...) Yes. The hell with being grudging. I apologize for being grudging. I take it back.

Amy too is optimistic.

You know what would be great for WiS3 (assuming it happens)? Martha Nussbaum and Christina Hoff Sommers doing a dialogue.

These people are soooo transparent. How stupid do they think their sycophants are?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /06/onward

Their sycophants are about as sharp as a sack of wet mice, as Foghorn Leghorn would say.

And Ophelia is not going to touch the capital. Of course she's concerned about future speaking and writing gigs.

[Gefan]

Which leads me to ask, what exactly is the down side for Lindsay and CFI to simply and definitively tell the entire poisonous rabble to fuck off?
These clowns don't pay anyone's salary. They alienate the wider public. They are an embarrassment. "Don't let the door hit you on your inflamed red ass on the way out", should surely have been a more sensible response.

Which is funny, because, according to the "Godless Bitches" (podcast 3.09 if you wanna punish yourself) and Surly Amy, the 'pit and everyone else not on their side is merely a minority of loud-mouthed, yet harmless, misogynists! Yep. They even have the support of the public at large, they are mainstream - didn't ya'll get the memo?

There's one very simple way to prove they don't have any serious power or mainstream support. We're here mocking them as opposed to digging our own mass grave in a re-education camp.

[Badger3k]

Benson says next years WIS could invite Christina Hoff Sommers, who is, according to them, an anti-feminist of Slympit proportions. Of course as they hate listening to anyone who is not fully onside there was protest about that idea.

Then Benson says:

'She’s the source of most of the talking points of anti-feminists, so she would be the right person to have that discussion of the stuff Ron talked about, and Nussbaum would be the ideal opponent.'

Is it me or is she actually suggesting the feminism promoted by them is now open to enquiry, discussion and critical analysis? That goes against everything most of FtB would ever put up with. It's why Lindsay was hung out to dry as that's exactly what he was doing.

Is Benson remembering her roots as someone who once believed nothing should be free from examination. If so that is a radical turn around.

Allow me to translate:
"Please run another conference next year. And invite me to speak (of course). And pay my expenses (natch). And I will be so reasonable and ecumenical. Really, I'm actually a very open-minded person".

Greta is too busy with a conference to say much now, but any takers on whether she changes her mind and will now be available to speak at their conference?

[Gumby]

I agree with all of the above, and I have precisely zero access to CFI's internal calculations but it seems to me that you might as well say; "fuck it. let's get this over with" and have the damn fight.
The way they're going this is only going to get worse.

Well, if they were to have that fight, with Silverman's recent decision to say things he knew would align himself (and AA) with the baboons, then there would be a potential rift between the biggest skeptical org in the US and the biggest atheist org in the US. I don't think either CFI or AA wants that, or at least they shouldn't. PZ and his pals have effectively driven a wedge between the two organizations.

The best thing is maybe for CFI to calm the shitstorm, maybe that's all Lindsay's "apology" was meant to do. Then they can give WiS to AA and be done with it.

[katamari Damassi]

Ophelia is oozing noble piety now that she's discovered Blackford's tweets.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... nd-timely/

What a horrible thing to say. Even what Ron said to CFI staff and branch leaders is terrible? Russell is so confident that all the staff and all the branch leaders are completely wrong to be upset about anything that he knows it was terrible for Ron to apologize to them?

Of course, everyone was upset, for the same reasons Ophelia was upset. She knows this, because she does.

Yeah, and the guy they've been shitting on these past 2 years is presumptuous for thinking Lindsay's getting the same treatment.

I don’t see how he can reasonably make such a sweeping and savage assertion.

Savage assertion. Mykeru's tweet "vibrates with rage." Gurdur "violently disagreed" with her. The woman lives in her own private disaster movie.

Oh, and Russell is a colonialist for meddling in US affairs.

Blackford's chastising of Ron's apology is what will bring the baboon commentariate in line with Ophie's new perspective.

[Parody Accountant]

http://i.imgur.com/g6od7g2.png

[free thoughtpolice]

It's odd that leaders of the secular/skeptic movement get a bit of a beating from FTB bloggers and their commenters for some minor perceived politically incorrect slips, yet they are mainly quiet about the Silverman racism fiasco.
The exception, Sikivu Hutchinson's post, had some of the early comments wanting to ignore the story because the source, (Ed Clint), was considered unreliable.
The last few comments talk about this odd silence. Are the FC(n) only concerned about feminism for white women or are they writing about the issue now and just haven't published yet?


" xyz
June 22, 2013 at 4:11 pm (UTC 0)
Thank you so much for addressing this Sikivu. I know it sucks to have this come up at the same time as American Atheists seems to be doing so well on feminist issues, but really, people shouldn’t have to weigh whether they are going to support the “Slaves Obey Your Masters” org or the one that didn’t get past “expressing its unhappiness about the controversy” generated by its own damn CEO… these are all serious issues. I am disappointed you’re the only one I’ve seen posting about it on FTB.

19.1
blackskeptics
June 23, 2013 at 5:48 pm (UTC 0)
You’re welcome. AJ was one of the few prominent African American women with a paid position in the “movement”. Black women are among the lowest paid workers in the U.S. and have some of the lowest promotion rates in private sector employment. It is not surprising that her suit and the issues raised in my piece elicit deafening silence and deflection from the atheist establishment because it is comprised of white male and female elites who are perfectly comfortable flying the diversity flag out of expedience and pretending (like the majority of mainstream America) that being down with “women’s issues” magically exempts these institutions from white supremacy and entitlement vis-à-vis hiring, workplace climate, retention and promotions.

20
abear
June 23, 2013 at 5:23 pm (UTC 0)
Reply
Why is it this is the only blog on FTB that even mentions this?
Did Silverman get a pass for his apparent racist behavior because he is buddies with PZ and has been trashing the “evil slymepitters”?

[BarnOwl]

On the "Onward" post, commenter hjhornbeck provided this link in support of Martha Nussbaum. Reading it made me want to hurl; very little indicates that she's a proponent of social justice, and quite a lot indicates that she has a rather privileged background and continues to maintain those circumstances.

[Gefan]

I agree with all of the above, and I have precisely zero access to CFI's internal calculations but it seems to me that you might as well say; "fuck it. let's get this over with" and have the damn fight.
The way they're going this is only going to get worse.

Well, if they were to have that fight, with Silverman's recent decision to say things he knew would align himself (and AA) with the baboons, then there would be a potential rift between the biggest skeptical org in the US and the biggest atheist org in the US. I don't think either CFI or AA wants that, or at least they shouldn't. PZ and his pals have effectively driven a wedge between the two organizations.

The best thing is maybe for CFI to calm the shitstorm, maybe that's all Lindsay's "apology" was meant to do. Then they can give WiS to AA and be done with it.

If it leads to the baboons being herded off into the embrace of AA and that douche-weasel Silverman - I'm fine with that outcome. Anything that quarantines them somewhere they can go about creating their own padded-walled kingdom and leave the rest of us alone, works for me.
If there's a public bloodbath en route - so much the better. Two things of note will happen. One, the wider world will see there is another side to the community that wants nothing to do with the SJW cancer and, two, they'll be exposed to Peezus and his merry band.
These clowns are like Mitt Romney. The more the average citizen gets to know them, the less they like them.

[Jan Steen]

Even skepchick Surly Amy is on board with the 'accept the apology' position.

I can’t speak for Rebecca or anyone else from this network as to whether or not this is fully acceptable but I can say that I appreciate this gesture. I think it’s a great place to start from and I hope that we can now open up a dialog with CFI and the people directly affected by Lindsay’s words and actions. I am optimistic that we can move forward from here. I am not saying that this in itself is a complete solution by any means but I am hopeful that we are at a place where the community can potentially work together again. So thank you Ron Lindsay for your apology.

Now we wait and see how this unfolds. One good step would be an announcement from CFI that there will be a WiS3.

It looks as if Watson is going to have to eat crow or become even more isolated.

I suspect that she is reading up on crow recipes as we speak.

http://skepchick.org/2013/06/ron-lindsay-apologizes/

[BarnOwl]

Never-Pay-My-Own-Way-Ophelia wrote:

You know…I’m all for internationalism, but internationalism doesn’t mean just brashly meddling in other people’s organizations and internecine quarrels from the far side of the planet. That’s colonialism rather than internationalism. I’ve never been able to understand why Russell feels entitled to meddle so energetically in the affairs of US secularist organizations. I don’t feel entitled to do that when it comes to UK or Indian or Australian organizations. Why does Russell carry on as if CFI were accountable to him?

::boggles::

Ophelia has never made demands of or meddled in, for example, Atheists Ireland. Never.

Amazingly, she gets some stick for it from the usually sycophantic commenters.

Also, the quote is hilariously ironic in the context of broader US policy and attitudes, even though it wasn't intended as such.

[BarnOwl]

Even skepchick Surly Amy is on board with the 'accept the apology' position.

I can’t speak for Rebecca or anyone else from this network as to whether or not this is fully acceptable but I can say that I appreciate this gesture. I think it’s a great place to start from and I hope that we can now open up a dialog with CFI and the people directly affected by Lindsay’s words and actions. I am optimistic that we can move forward from here. I am not saying that this in itself is a complete solution by any means but I am hopeful that we are at a place where the community can potentially work together again. So thank you Ron Lindsay for your apology.

Now we wait and see how this unfolds. One good step would be an announcement from CFI that there will be a WiS3.

It looks as if Watson is going to have to eat crow or become even more isolated.

I suspect that she is reading up on crow recipes as we speak.

http://skepchick.org/2013/06/ron-lindsay-apologizes/

Perhaps Kilstein can provide her with some vegan crowfu recipes.

[Gumby]

Never-Pay-My-Own-Way-Ophelia wrote:

You know…I’m all for internationalism, but internationalism doesn’t mean just brashly meddling in other people’s organizations and internecine quarrels from the far side of the planet. That’s colonialism rather than internationalism. I’ve never been able to understand why Russell feels entitled to meddle so energetically in the affairs of US secularist organizations. I don’t feel entitled to do that when it comes to UK or Indian or Australian organizations. Why does Russell carry on as if CFI were accountable to him?

::boggles::

Ophelia has never made demands of or meddled in, for example, Atheists Ireland. Never.

Fuck, these people are trying to tell every atheist and skeptic and every atheist/skeptic org everywhere in the world what is acceptable behavior and acceptable speech. She's an amazing hypocrite.

[Gefan]

Never-Pay-My-Own-Way-Ophelia wrote:

You know…I’m all for internationalism, but internationalism doesn’t mean just brashly meddling in other people’s organizations and internecine quarrels from the far side of the planet. That’s colonialism rather than internationalism. I’ve never been able to understand why Russell feels entitled to meddle so energetically in the affairs of US secularist organizations. I don’t feel entitled to do that when it comes to UK or Indian or Australian organizations. Why does Russell carry on as if CFI were accountable to him?

::boggles::

Ophelia has never made demands of or meddled in, for example, Atheists Ireland. Never.

Amazingly, she gets some stick for it from the usually sycophantic commenters.

Also, the quote is hilariously ironic in the context of broader US policy and attitudes, even though it wasn't intended as such.

There's actually a fairly established definition of colonialism and it's not "meddling in other people's organizations and internecine quarrels from the far side of the planet".
Oh, sorry. I forgot. Dictionaries are tools of the Patriarchy (TM).

Or something.

Fuck it. I'm going to bed.

[John Greg]

Ophie is so fucking transparent (http://skepchick.org/2013/06/ron-lindsay-apologizes/):

That’s basically what I was saying yesterday. (I said it fir-irst, I said it fir-irst.) I think it’s a step. I think that even more so this morning now that I see other people think so too.

In other words, now that she sees that she's not the only lickspittle bumsmoocher in the stall, angling for more public speaking gigs, she's going to join the line.

Fuck me sideways with a rubber knife. I mean, really, these folks are just so blazingly pathetic.

[bhoytony]

Does anybody recall exactly when Russell Blackford was exposed to the gamma rays?

The rage is strong in this one. It is weird, and more than a bit sad, that a person who has shown pretty decent ability in freethinking and rationality has gone so far off track due to an incredible hulk like rage.

http://uk.eonline.com/eol_images/Articl ... 033108.jpg

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-575481

[EdwardGemmer]

It's odd that leaders of the secular/skeptic movement get a bit of a beating from FTB bloggers and their commenters for some minor perceived politically incorrect slips, yet they are mainly quiet about the Silverman racism fiasco.
The exception, Sikivu Hutchinson's post, had some of the early comments wanting to ignore the story because the source, (Ed Clint), was considered unreliable.
The last few comments talk about this odd silence. Are the FC(n) only concerned about feminism for white women or are they writing about the issue now and just haven't published yet?


" xyz
June 22, 2013 at 4:11 pm (UTC 0)
Thank you so much for addressing this Sikivu. I know it sucks to have this come up at the same time as American Atheists seems to be doing so well on feminist issues, but really, people shouldn’t have to weigh whether they are going to support the “Slaves Obey Your Masters” org or the one that didn’t get past “expressing its unhappiness about the controversy” generated by its own damn CEO… these are all serious issues. I am disappointed you’re the only one I’ve seen posting about it on FTB.

19.1
blackskeptics
June 23, 2013 at 5:48 pm (UTC 0)
You’re welcome. AJ was one of the few prominent African American women with a paid position in the “movement”. Black women are among the lowest paid workers in the U.S. and have some of the lowest promotion rates in private sector employment. It is not surprising that her suit and the issues raised in my piece elicit deafening silence and deflection from the atheist establishment because it is comprised of white male and female elites who are perfectly comfortable flying the diversity flag out of expedience and pretending (like the majority of mainstream America) that being down with “women’s issues” magically exempts these institutions from white supremacy and entitlement vis-à-vis hiring, workplace climate, retention and promotions.

20
abear
June 23, 2013 at 5:23 pm (UTC 0)
Reply
Why is it this is the only blog on FTB that even mentions this?
Did Silverman get a pass for his apparent racist behavior because he is buddies with PZ and has been trashing the “evil slymepitters”?

It's a joke. All this chatter about "social justice" is bullshit. Are there any atheist groups out there that case about such issues and actually mean it?

[bhoytony]

Fuck, these people are trying to tell every atheist and skeptic and every atheist/skeptic org everywhere in the world what is acceptable behavior and acceptable speech. She's an amazing hypocrite.

"You don't get to say the word cunt in the context it is used in the UK because I live in America"

[sKepptiksowat]

Fuck, these people are trying to tell every atheist and skeptic and every atheist/skeptic org everywhere in the world what is acceptable behavior and acceptable speech. She's an amazing hypocrite.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-k4x-_wriSyM/T ... 494238.jpg

[Gumby]

Does anybody recall exactly when Russell Blackford was exposed to the gamma rays?

The rage is strong in this one. It is weird, and more than a bit sad, that a person who has shown pretty decent ability in freethinking and rationality has gone so far off track due to an incredible hulk like rage.

http://uk.eonline.com/eol_images/Articl ... 033108.jpg

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-575481

We've seen it before, many times.

Disagreement = "shaking with rage" and "incredible hulk like rage" and "vibrating with rage" and "potentially violent".

I've said it a billion times, these people sure do like their hyperbole.

[Gumby]

Fuck, these people are trying to tell every atheist and skeptic and every atheist/skeptic org everywhere in the world what is acceptable behavior and acceptable speech. She's an amazing hypocrite.

"You don't get to say the word cunt in the context it is used in the UK because I live in America"

'Zackly.

[Parody Accountant]

I've said it a billion times, these people sure do like their hyperbole.

Teeeheee!!!

http://k18.kn3.net/taringa/5/8/5/4/5/3/ ... ru/8D3.jpg

[another lurker]

Does anybody recall exactly when Russell Blackford was exposed to the gamma rays?

The rage is strong in this one. It is weird, and more than a bit sad, that a person who has shown pretty decent ability in freethinking and rationality has gone so far off track due to an incredible hulk like rage.

snip

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-575481

We've seen it before, many times.

Disagreement = "shaking with rage" and "incredible hulk like rage" and "vibrating with rage" and "potentially violent".

I've said it a billion times, these people sure do like their hyperbole.

I suggest you calm down before you rape someone with your text, Gumby!

[bhoytony]

Off topic, but I just saw this. The Cliff Diving World Series seems to be a sham. That woman in the car in Cape Town clearly pissed all over the Russian guy.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9514/vjo.png

[Pitchguest]

Fuck, these people are trying to tell every atheist and skeptic and every atheist/skeptic org everywhere in the world what is acceptable behavior and acceptable speech. She's an amazing hypocrite.

"You don't get to say the word cunt in the context it is used in the UK because I live in America"

Oh, but bhoytony, the majority of internet denizens are Americans, so therefore we should cater to their feelings.

:doh:

[AndrewV69]

Allow me to translate:
"Please run another conference next year. And invite me to speak (of course). And pay my expenses (natch). And I will be so reasonable and ecumenical. Really, I'm actually a very open-minded person".

Well I was having difficulty trying to understand but this kind of makes sense to me.

Were I a baboon I imagine Hoff Sommers would be high up on the list of people I would not want speaking. I would do whatever it takes to avoid her.

A former philosophy professor who taught ethics? I would be in a cold sweat at the thought.

[bhoytony]

Oh, but bhoytony, the majority of internet denizens are Americans, so therefore we should cater to their feelings.

:doh:

That seems perfectly reasonable. Correct me if I'm wrong,but, aren't the majority of internet users men?

Yeehah! Titties and beer!

[justinvacula]

Last week, I drank coffee and tea with Pastor Shawn Walker of First Baptist Church in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. Prior to the beginning of the June 13, 2013 Wilkes-Barre City Council meeting which I had attended to object to government-led prayer during council meetings, Walker had invited me to have discussion at a later time saying he had "grown in the last 4 years." I obliged, had later arranged a meeting with Pastor Walker at a local bookstore, and was glad I did.

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... wn-walker/

[Skep tickle]

It looks as if Watson is going to have to eat crow or become even more isolated.

I suspect that she is reading up on crow recipes as we speak.

http://skepchick.org/2013/06/ron-lindsay-apologizes/

Uh, anyone seen sacha lately?


:shock:

[katamari Damassi]

FfTB and Skepchick risks losing the Shakesville sob sisters if they accept Ron's notpology, not that they ever had McEwen. There can be only one Queen of Hearts.

[Ape+lust]

I wonder if PZ's been busy logrolling with Silverman lately because he has to hang on tightly to the handful of national names he's gotten for book blurbs.

Dawkins has been notably missing from the Amazon list so far. That shoutout he gave in The God Delusion was a huge boost to PZ's celebrity. If he's asked and passes, things are going to get really weird between them.

[Skep tickle]

Re recent posts by Watson, Skepticon, Eberhard, & Benson sure seem to illustrate the bind they're in, if they stick their necks out too far in one direction or another before being sure all the details are in & the other key players in the group are on board.

[EdwardGemmer]

FfTB and Skepchick risks losing the Shakesville sob sisters if they accept Ron's notpology, not that they ever had McEwen. There can be only one Queen of Hearts.

LOL, being sad about losing Shakesville is like being sad that the homeless guy who talks to himself moved to another town.

[Tony Parsehole]

I wonder if PZ's been busy logrolling with Silverman lately because he has to hang on tightly to the handful of national names he's gotten for book blurbs.

Dawkins has been notably missing from the Amazon list so far. That shoutout he gave in The God Delusion was a huge boost to PZ's celebrity. If he's asked and passes, things are going to get really weird between them.

I know were just gossiping here but if PZ did ask Dawkins for a nice word about his book then he'd be the cheekiest fucker on the planet.
You don't wipe dogshit on somebody's car-door handles and then ask for a lift.

[Tony Parsehole]

FfTB and Skepchick risks losing the Shakesville sob sisters if they accept Ron's notpology, not that they ever had McEwen. There can be only one Queen of Hearts.

LOL, being sad about losing Shakesville is like being sad that the homeless guy who talks to himself moved to another town.

HAHAHAHA!

[Tony Parsehole]

Even skepchick Surly Amy is on board with the 'accept the apology' position.

I can’t speak for Rebecca or anyone else from this network as to whether or not this is fully acceptable but I can say that I appreciate this gesture. I think it’s a great place to start from and I hope that we can now open up a dialog with CFI and the people directly affected by Lindsay’s words and actions. I am optimistic that we can move forward from here. I am not saying that this in itself is a complete solution by any means but I am hopeful that we are at a place where the community can potentially work together again. So thank you Ron Lindsay for your apology.

Now we wait and see how this unfolds. One good step would be an announcement from CFI that there will be a WiS3.

It looks as if Watson is going to have to eat crow or become even more isolated.

I suspect that she is reading up on crow recipes as we speak.

http://skepchick.org/2013/06/ron-lindsay-apologizes/

I was actually looking up crow recipes before I read that.
Apparently it's not that bad.

[Steersman]

FfTB and Skepchick risks losing the Shakesville sob sisters if they accept Ron's notpology, not that they ever had McEwen. There can be only one Queen of Hearts.

LOL, being sad about losing Shakesville is like being sad that the homeless guy who talks to himself moved to another town.

I can sympathize, although I don’t think your analogy is the best one possible. I would be happier with “pedophile” than “homeless guy”, but even that only means some other group has to deal with a sociopath. Even better would be “pedophile put behind bars”.

[AndrewV69]

On the "Onward" post, commenter hjhornbeck provided this link in support of Martha Nussbaum. Reading it made me want to hurl; very little indicates that she's a proponent of social justice, and quite a lot indicates that she has a rather privileged background and continues to maintain those circumstances.

Hmmm. I am currently at the part where her travels to India come up. Perhaps I should not go out on a limb and wait till I read the whole thing but so far the only thing that makes me want to hurl is the fawning worship. For example:

When I asked why she reacted so strongly to Butler's work, she furrowed her
brow, looked down and spoke with the hushed, somber tone one might employ in
addressing a grave threat to national security.

Oh please, gag me with a pitchfork.

[Parody Accountant]

Oh, but bhoytony, the majority of internet denizens are Americans, so therefore we should cater to their feelings.

:doh:

That seems perfectly reasonable. Correct me if I'm wrong,but, aren't the majority of internet users men?

Yeehah! Titties and beer!

somewhat relevant.

[youtube]tYi83S0yIqI[/youtube]

[Ape+lust]

I know were just gossiping here but if PZ did ask Dawkins for a nice word about his book then he'd be the cheekiest fucker on the planet.
You don't wipe dogshit on somebody's car-door handles and then ask for a lift.

I thought we were talking about the cheekiest fucker on the planet. It wouldn't surprise me if PZ felt Dawkins owed him and not the other way around.

"Let’s stop the shouting that Richard Dawkins is some kind of raving misogynist. What’s happened here is that he is at some remove from all of the details, and this issue got blown up by lunatics who felt their manhood threatened and who exaggerated the situation to an absurd degree. I think he is wrong, but what he was arguing against was a cartoon of feminism which far too many people have been peddling on the blogs."
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011 ... ribad-mis/

"I also think the criticism of Dawkins has gone over the top, too. I disagree with his tack on the issue, but it’s ridiculous to accuse him of being a “dumb rich guy” or a misogynist or whatever the furious insult du jour is. I just think he really missed the mark with his argument."
http://www.butterfliesandwheels.org/201 ... ment-98075

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Hello Pitters! I'm back from a week of studio work in a small village up north (pop. 80) without phone or internet. I'm going to catch up, if I can (still at page 422). Or maybe I can have a résumé?

Wow, 30ish pages behind? I'm so sorry. : P Here's a few things you missed:

Ellenbeth Wachs was on CGIPC, and was really great. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/chill_girl ... d-her-gods

David Silverman was on Brave Hero radio, and drank the FTB Kool-Aid. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bravehero/ ... -silverman

Ron Lindsay gave a not-pology, and of course it wasn't enough. http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/e ... lk_at_wis2

FTB is taking its ball and going home. http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... nt-page-1/

And I have a blog. http://skepticismfirst.wordpress.com/



I'm probably missing a lot.

Thanks Meta and Ape+lust for the heads-up. I think I'll go the SN way and take it up from here. By the time I finish those 37 pages, there'll be 37 more.

As you were!

[Steersman]

Re recent posts by Watson, Skepticon, Eberhard, & Benson sure seem to illustrate the bind they're in, if they stick their necks out too far in one direction or another before being sure all the details are in & the other key players in the group are on board.

Indeed. One might suggest that it is, in part at least, due to a commitment to group-think, to group solidarity over more substantial principles like an actual adherence to the truth. I think someone here brought up the analogy with the consequences that followed from people stopping clapping too soon to one of Stalin’s speeches: the one who did so wound up with a one-way ticket to the Gulag.

And somewhat amusingly, and to make my daily obligatory reference to Pinker [ ;-) ], he talks of some problematic aspects of group dynamics, particularly those predicated more on ideology than facts:

In the nineteenth century and early decades of the twentieth, self-contained communes based on a philosophy of communal sharing sprang up throughout the United States. All of them collapsed from internal tensions, the ones guided by socialist ideology after a median of two years, the ones guided by religious ideology after a median of twenty years. The Israeli kibbutzim, originally galvanized by socialism and Zionism, steadily dismantled their collectivist philosophy over the decades. …. And the kibbuttzim were dragged down by inefficiences because of the free-rider problem – they were, in the words of one kibbutznik, a “paradise for parasites”. [The Blank Slate; pg 257]

[Tony Parsehole]

@Ape-Lust
HOLG FRIG!!!
From your link. PZ, in 2011, discussing elevatorgate :

So let’s just be clear here. If your version of the events requires comically strident exaggeration in order to make a case, you’re definitely wrong, and you are to blame for the discord and confusion. You are lying.

Is he taking the fucking piss? Who, as a direct result of elevatorgate, is calling all people who disagree with him "Marc Lepine"? Who made the fucking argument, on stage, that the atheist community is divided by "those who see women as people and those who see them as bitches and fuck-toys"?

Once more, with feeling:
http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/im ... g-head.gif

[Parody Accountant]

Hello Pitters! I'm back from a week of studio work in a small village up north (pop. 80) without phone or internet. I'm going to catch up, if I can (still at page 422). Or maybe I can have a résumé?

Wow, 30ish pages behind? I'm so sorry. : P Here's a few things you missed:

Ellenbeth Wachs was on CGIPC, and was really great. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/chill_girl ... d-her-gods

David Silverman was on Brave Hero radio, and drank the FTB Kool-Aid. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bravehero/ ... -silverman

Ron Lindsay gave a not-pology, and of course it wasn't enough. http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/e ... lk_at_wis2

FTB is taking its ball and going home. http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... nt-page-1/

And I have a blog. http://skepticismfirst.wordpress.com/



I'm probably missing a lot.

Thanks Meta and Ape+lust for the heads-up. I think I'll go the SN way and take it up from here. By the time I finish those 37 pages, there'll be 37 more.

As you were!

It really was a good summary. In fact I missed one item and meant to go back. You can knock all those out in 2 hours of paying close attention or 5 minutes of skimming.

[AndrewV69]

Re recent posts by Watson, Skepticon, Eberhard, & Benson sure seem to illustrate the bind they're in, if they stick their necks out too far in one direction or another before being sure all the details are in & the other key players in the group are on board.

Indeed. One might suggest that it is, in part at least, due to a commitment to group-think, to group solidarity over more substantial principles like an actual adherence to the truth. I think someone here brought up the analogy with the consequences that followed from people stopping clapping too soon to one of Stalin’s speeches: the one who did so wound up with a one-way ticket to the Gulag.

And somewhat amusingly, and to make my daily obligatory reference to Pinker [ ;-) ], he talks of some problematic aspects of group dynamics, particularly those predicated more on ideology than facts:

In the nineteenth century and early decades of the twentieth, self-contained communes based on a philosophy of communal sharing sprang up throughout the United States. All of them collapsed from internal tensions, the ones guided by socialist ideology after a median of two years, the ones guided by religious ideology after a median of twenty years. The Israeli kibbutzim, originally galvanized by socialism and Zionism, steadily dismantled their collectivist philosophy over the decades. …. And the kibbuttzim were dragged down by inefficiences because of the free-rider problem – they were, in the words of one kibbutznik, a “paradise for parasites”. [The Blank Slate; pg 257]

Speaking of kibbutzim. Adapt or die apparently:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ju ... t-comeback

Most kibbutzim have implemented reforms to become commercially viable and stem decline. Liberalisation – including permitting differential incomes and home ownership – has increased their attractiveness to newcomers reluctant to commit to pure communal principles.

Only about 60 of Israel's 275 kibbutzim still operate a completely collective model, in which all members are paid the same regardless of their allotted job. Most of the rest have introduced wage differentials for people employed by the kibbutz – but, more importantly, many members now work outside the kibbutz and contribute a proportion of their salaries to the collective.

[Skep tickle]

EllenBeth Wachs' evidence re Hensley or Watson being seen as replacements (though names are redacted in her screencaps here):

http://mycatsaremygods.com/2013/06/23/w ... tereotype/

[Skep tickle]

LOL, here's the last line of EBW's post above:

Anyway, I just joined JREF and am headed to TAM2013.

[Steersman]

LOL, here's the last line of EBW's post above:

Anyway, I just joined JREF and am headed to TAM2013.

One hopes to see her wear a T-shirt suitably captioned ... maybe the same as Harriet Hall's? .... ;-)

[Ape+lust]

@Ape-Lust
HOLG FRIG!!!
From your link. PZ, in 2011, discussing elevatorgate :

So let’s just be clear here. If your version of the events requires comically strident exaggeration in order to make a case, you’re definitely wrong, and you are to blame for the discord and confusion. You are lying.

Is he taking the fucking piss? Who, as a direct result of elevatorgate, is calling all people who disagree with him "Marc Lepine"? Who made the fucking argument, on stage, that the atheist community is divided by "those who see women as people and those who see them as bitches and fuck-toys"?

Once more, with feeling:
http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/im ... g-head.gif

Haha, no kidding! And he still holds to his idiotic narrative that ignores the Dawkins blowup and zooms past Stef McGraw, so he can say this, all THIS, is happening only because none of us like to be told, "guys, don't do that." Nevermind that the origin of the Slimepit is timestamped and preserved in Abbie's "Bad Form" post, available to any and all. Two years on and he still thinks everyone outside his bubble is too stupid to see through his wankery.

[Tony Parsehole]

EllenBeth Wachs' evidence re Hensley or Watson being seen as replacements (though names are redacted in her screencaps here):

http://mycatsaremygods.com/2013/06/23/w ... tereotype/

Hmmmmmm......Those scribbled-out Facebook comments could have been made by anybody. Not really evidence that there was a plot to replace Lindsay with Watson, Hensley or Kermit The Frog.

[Ape+lust]

EllenBeth Wachs' evidence re Hensley or Watson being seen as replacements (though names are redacted in her screencaps here):

http://mycatsaremygods.com/2013/06/23/w ... tereotype/

Swell idea. Let either of them drive CFI into a ditch and put themselves out of work. :shock:

http://i.imgur.com/fivWnzH.png

[BarnOwl]

Adam Lee is really dumb.

[deLurch]

EllenBeth Wachs' evidence re Hensley or Watson being seen as replacements (though names are redacted in her screencaps here):

http://mycatsaremygods.com/2013/06/23/w ... tereotype/

Hmmmmmm......Those scribbled-out Facebook comments could have been made by anybody. Not really evidence that there was a plot to replace Lindsay with Watson, Hensley or Kermit The Frog.

Agreed. Some of them clearly did want Lindsay ousted. But as having either Melody or Watson replace him, that boils down to wishful dreams.

[Tigzy]

Adam Lee is really dumb.

How the FC mob view the pitters getting all ragey about them:

[youtube]D9UzH7Odt20[/youtube]
(notice J T Eberhard running for his dear little life at the start?)

How the pitters probably do get a bit ragey:

[youtube]Ywmfnz7sD98[/youtube]