Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Continuation of the post at Abbie Smith's ERV blog (http://scienceblogs.com/erv/)

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Dave » Thu May 16, 2013 2:19 pm  •  [Post 21601]

bovarchist wrote:That CV just can't be up to date, can it? He's really published no papers since 2002? Brought no grant money to the university since then either? How does he still have a job? They don't give tenure to assistant professors, do they?


Its not up to date. At the top:
Updated: 10 July 2003
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby bovarchist » Thu May 16, 2013 2:20 pm  •  [Post 21602]

Dick Strawkins wrote:
I might point out that Dawkins publication record for peer reviewed articles is not particularly great for an academic scientist.
I did a count of my own published papers and it came to over 40, in a much shorter time frame compared to Dawkins - and I don't consider myself particularly successful in number terms.
PZ Myers, on the other hand has a very sparse publication record. For all his pharyngula mentions of research being carried out in Morris, I don't think he's managed to get a single peer reviewed paper published for many years and before that he didn't have many publications. The average 'creation scientist' working at the Creation Museum has probably a better track record than Myers in this regard.


Read somewhere, don't remember where, that it's not how many papers that matters but how often they're cited. Anyone want to research how Dawkins v Myers plays out by that measurement?
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby ERV » Thu May 16, 2013 2:21 pm  •  [Post 21603]

While Twatson, Marcotte, and PZ have been hard at work, slaving away at blog posts full of screen-shots, Twatter conversations, and delusions of grandeur-- desperate attempts to feel some semblance of emotion in their boring, hollow, wasted lives-- Ive been derping around with my stupid 'will change the way we study HIV and could be applied to most viruses' invention.

I got it up from ~27% efficiency to... *drumroll*... 42% efficiency! (I think its a little higher)

I thought I had it at 80% efficiency at one point, but it was an artifact of small sample size :(

Will know by Monday if it can do the job I created it to do at that rate.

:popcorn:
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby bovarchist » Thu May 16, 2013 2:23 pm  •  [Post 21604]

Pitchguest wrote:So Amanda Marcotte makes the incredible argument that sexual harassment is a right because free speech is a right, in response to someone who said that freedom of speech is a right and labelling speech you don't like as harassment doesn't magically make it so.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/16/f ... -899458029


That was me. ONE MILLLLLIOON DOLLARS PLEASE.... :dance:
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Dick Strawkins » Thu May 16, 2013 2:23 pm  •  [Post 21605]

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
With The Selfish Gene alone Dawkins has had far more influence on the lay understanding of evolution than anyone else I can think of. The cultural impact of that book was enormous. Advances in scientific understanding don't always come from technical research papers, they can come from popular works changing the perspective on a field.


I agree with you. I'm certainly not suggesting that Dawkins has been a slouch. Merely that 43 papers is not particularly high for an academic scientist, although Dawkins has the excuse that he wrote a lot of influential books - something that Peezus cannot claim.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby cunt » Thu May 16, 2013 2:24 pm  •  [Post 21606]

ERV wrote:While Twatson, Marcotte, and PZ have been hard at work, slaving away at blog posts full of screen-shots, Twatter conversations, and delusions of grandeur-- desperate attempts to feel some semblance of emotion in their boring, hollow, wasted lives-- Ive been derping around with my stupid 'will change the way we study HIV and could be applied to most viruses' invention.

I got it up from ~27% efficiency to... *drumroll*... 42% efficiency! (I think its a little higher)

I thought I had it at 80% efficiency at one point, but it was an artifact of small sample size :(

Will know by Monday if it can do the job I created it to do at that rate.

:popcorn:


Hmmm, I should probably do something useful with my life too.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Southern » Thu May 16, 2013 2:26 pm  •  [Post 21607]

ERV wrote:While Twatson, Marcotte, and PZ have been hard at work, slaving away at blog posts full of screen-shots, Twatter conversations, and delusions of grandeur-- desperate attempts to feel some semblance of emotion in their boring, hollow, wasted lives-- Ive been derping around with my stupid 'will change the way we study HIV and could be applied to most viruses' invention.

I got it up from ~27% efficiency to... *drumroll*... 42% efficiency! (I think its a little higher)

I thought I had it at 80% efficiency at one point, but it was an artifact of small sample size :(

Will know by Monday if it can do the job I created it to do at that rate.

:popcorn:

Stop throwing your scientific priviledge at us! It's becoming a deliberate tour de force!

Besides, who cares about this AIDS stuff? What about patriarchy, or Twitter, or Justin Vacula's moustache? SPECIALLY Justin Vacula's moustache! Can't your precious science do anything about it?! YOUR SCIENCE GOD HAD FAILED YOU!

(Which is my humble way of saying, "congratulations!")
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Southern » Thu May 16, 2013 2:28 pm  •  [Post 21608]

bovarchist wrote:
Pitchguest wrote:So Amanda Marcotte makes the incredible argument that sexual harassment is a right because free speech is a right, in response to someone who said that freedom of speech is a right and labelling speech you don't like as harassment doesn't magically make it so.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/16/f ... -899458029


That was me. ONE MILLLLLIOON DOLLARS PLEASE.... :dance:


Well, here you have it (again):

[youtube]v=l91ISfcuzDw[/youtube]
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Southern » Thu May 16, 2013 2:29 pm  •  [Post 21609]

Oh, blunder... forget it. That should teach me, FINALLY, that repetition sucks anyway.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Gefan » Thu May 16, 2013 2:30 pm  •  [Post 21610]

ERV wrote:While Twatson, Marcotte, and PZ have been hard at work, slaving away at blog posts full of screen-shots, Twatter conversations, and delusions of grandeur-- desperate attempts to feel some semblance of emotion in their boring, hollow, wasted lives-- Ive been derping around with my stupid 'will change the way we study HIV and could be applied to most viruses' invention.

I got it up from ~27% efficiency to... *drumroll*... 42% efficiency! (I think its a little higher)

I thought I had it at 80% efficiency at one point, but it was an artifact of small sample size :(

Will know by Monday if it can do the job I created it to do at that rate.

:popcorn:


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Some kind of productive adult?
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Wild Zontargs » Thu May 16, 2013 2:33 pm  •  [Post 21611]

bovarchist wrote:That CV just can't be up to date, can it? He's really published no papers since 2002? Brought no grant money to the university since then either? How does he still have a job? They don't give tenure to assistant professors, do they?

A cursory googling gives me results from Crackergate claiming that he is indeed tenured.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby ERV » Thu May 16, 2013 2:33 pm  •  [Post 21612]

Southern wrote:Stop throwing your scientific priviledge at us! It's becoming a deliberate tour de force!

I am an atheist and I am an HIV researcher, therefore atheism leads to HIV research. Anyone who is an atheist and NOT an HIV researcher should be drummed out of the movement! Amidoinitrite, PZ?


cunt wrote:Hmmm, I should probably do something useful with my life too.

What else am I going to do in Oklahoma? Thunder out of the playoffs = "Meh, might as well make that HIV vaccine now."
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Lsuoma » Thu May 16, 2013 2:43 pm  •  [Post 21613]

Dick Strawkins wrote:
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
With The Selfish Gene alone Dawkins has had far more influence on the lay understanding of evolution than anyone else I can think of. The cultural impact of that book was enormous. Advances in scientific understanding don't always come from technical research papers, they can come from popular works changing the perspective on a field.


I agree with you. I'm certainly not suggesting that Dawkins has been a slouch. Merely that 43 papers is not particularly high for an academic scientist, although Dawkins has the excuse that he wrote a lot of influential books - something that Peezus cannot claim.

Plus Charles Simonyi endowed an Oxford chair specifically for Dawkins, IIRC (too lazy to Google right now...)
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby clownshoe » Thu May 16, 2013 2:46 pm  •  [Post 21614]

Image
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AbsurdWalls » Thu May 16, 2013 2:58 pm  •  [Post 21615]

Wild Zontargs wrote:
bovarchist wrote:That CV just can't be up to date, can it? He's really published no papers since 2002? Brought no grant money to the university since then either? How does he still have a job? They don't give tenure to assistant professors, do they?

A cursory googling gives me results from Crackergate claiming that he is indeed tenured.


Unless you're going to try to rebut his ideas about developmental biology it is completely irrelevant to even attempt to attack PZ for his academic work. The answers to questions like "What is a good publication record?" vary enormously from field to field. It will also depend on what job he is doing now, it might be that he is a full-time teaching professor and is not afforded time to do research anymore.

He does have some more recent publications, though it appears that the 2002 paper listed in his CV was rejected and that the other publication from 2002 was four paragraphs he wrote for a website:

Web of Knowledge wrote:Title: Zietsch & Santtila's study is not evidence against the by-product theory of female orgasm
Author(s): Wallen, Kim; Myers, P. Z.; Lloyd, Elisabeth A.
Source: ANIMAL BEHAVIOUR Volume: 84 Issue: 5 Pages: E1-E4 DOI: 10.1016/j.anbehav.2012.05.023 Published: NOV 2012
Times Cited: 1 (from All Databases)

Title: Healthy helpings of disrespect
Author(s): Marshall, Jessica; Myers, P. Z.
Source: NEW SCIENTIST Volume: 204 Issue: 2736 Pages: 32-33 Published: NOV 28 2009
Times Cited: 0 (from All Databases)

Title: Only a theory: Evolution and the battle for America's soul
Author(s): Myers, P. Z.
Source: NATURE Volume: 454 Issue: 7204 Pages: 581-582 DOI: 10.1038/454581a Published: JUL 31 2008
Times Cited: 0 (from All Databases)

Title: Ethanol teratogenesis in the zebrafish, Danio rerio.
Author(s): Myers, PZ; Larson, M; Hartwell, M
Source: DEVELOPMENTAL BIOLOGY Volume: 235 Issue: 1 Pages: 245-245 Meeting Abstract: 339 Published: JUL 1 2001
Times Cited: 0 (from All Databases)

Title: Calcium signals monitored from leopard frog optic tectum after the optic nerve has been selectively loaded with calcium sensitive dye
Author(s): Dudkin, EA; Myers, PZ; Ramirez-Latorre, JA; et al.
Source: NEUROSCIENCE LETTERS Volume: 258 Issue: 2 Pages: 124-126 DOI: 10.1016/S0304-3940(98)00870-2 Published: DEC 18 1998
Times Cited: 4 (from All Databases)
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby ERV » Thu May 16, 2013 2:58 pm  •  [Post 21616]

OH MY GOD I CANT MATH!

Its at 58%!!! (again, a low-ball estimate, so probably higher!)


WHOOOOO!

WHOOOOOOOOO!
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby cunt » Thu May 16, 2013 3:03 pm  •  [Post 21617]

What's it being efficient at doing?
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Mark Thomas » Thu May 16, 2013 3:07 pm  •  [Post 21618]

some guy wrote:Although I didn't go read things to get the context, I fail to see how saying "I fail to see how 'A' leads to 'the logical conclusion' of 'B'" means that the speaker is implying anything about whether or not he believes 'B'.
And the proper response to someone who claims the speaker implied he believes B is not to chastise the originally speaker, but rather the person who can't understand what he said.


You're correct - saying B doesn't follow A isn't in itself an endorsement of B. However, the way Justin phrased it, coupled with the absence of any sentence in the piece flatly stating 'I disagree with B,' he left the door open for an uncharitable opponent to interpret his meaning in the worst possible way. Marcotte walked through that door.

When politicians do it it's called a gaffe - and they are almost always followed by an apology or a re-statement of their position. And that's exactly what Justin should do here in my opinion. In a debate like this it would have the effect of showing humility, humor (if done correctly), and a willingness to concede that your opponent - at times - has a point.

Given my experience over at skepchick this week, they appear to display none of those traits - a losing political strategy in my mind. I believe more people will agree with someone who is willing to be inclusive, compromise, and admit they are human and therefore not perfect, as opposed to someone who exhibits authoritarianism, enforces groupthink or a rigid adherence to dogma.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby ConcentratedH2O, OM » Thu May 16, 2013 3:07 pm  •  [Post 21619]

cunt wrote:What's it being efficient at doing?


Preferentially infecting men. Abbie has mutated the virus to be gender-specific; it's her way of smashing the patriarchy.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AbsurdWalls » Thu May 16, 2013 3:08 pm  •  [Post 21620]

I'd add that if you were to have been looking at PZ as an academic when he was at the same career stage as Abbie is now (for e.g.) he would have a very respectable set of papers (one of them in Nature FFS). Academic research has a bit of a pyramid structure. Of the many productive young research scientists today only a small fraction will end up as productive senior research scientists in the future.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby cunt » Thu May 16, 2013 3:10 pm  •  [Post 21621]

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
cunt wrote:What's it being efficient at doing?


Preferentially infecting men. Abbie has mutated the virus to be gender-specific; it's her way of smashing the patriarchy.


We've had our time.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Southern » Thu May 16, 2013 3:11 pm  •  [Post 21622]

cunt wrote:What's it being efficient at doing?


Well, being ERV's work, it must be some form of chill girl abomination that's efficient on harassing and being mysoginistic. Or maybe, finally, the Slimepit is developing a biological weapon against Rebecca Watson.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Lsuoma » Thu May 16, 2013 3:20 pm  •  [Post 21623]

Southern wrote:
cunt wrote:What's it being efficient at doing?


Well, being ERV's work, it must be some form of chill girl abomination that's efficient on harassing and being mysoginistic. Or maybe, finally, the Slimepit is developing a biological weapon against Rebecca Watson.

(This is a gimme for Cobweb Cunt's paranoid ravings)

Or maybe it's to attack Ophelia!!!!!
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby welch » Thu May 16, 2013 3:26 pm  •  [Post 21624]

Dick Strawkins wrote:
Zenspace wrote:
welch wrote:
Dave wrote:
Zenspace wrote:
<snip>

I'm hardly an expert in that sort of thing (I usually head in the other direction), but it seems to me he's fucked that goal well and good already. The only leadership position Peezus is headed for is the lunatic fringe of the sjw's.


True, but hes not smart enough to realize it.


The larger issue is he has the wrong goal.

Dawkins, Harris, Shermer, Hitchens et al didn't set out to become big kahunas. They set out to support a number of goals:

- Advance secularism in society, so as to reduce religion's influence.
- Advance things like rational thinking, skepticism (as a process)
- Advance science both in what it's capable of and its popularity because it's the best way we have to fix a fuckton of problems and know How Things Work

They, and others, have different backgrounds, political views, etc., but they all set out to further a set of goals. They also happened to be dedicated, talented and worked really fucking hard at it. A side effect of this was them becoming thought of as leaders in the atheist and other related movements.

PeeZus doesn't get that. He wants to go from professor at obscure university to Dawkins, but he ignores the real, hard, valuable work Dawkins did that elevated him to being "The Dawkins". I mean, for fuck's sake, Dawkins has, on average, published a book almost every three years since 1976 on evolution and/or atheism. In terms of Academic Papers, he's written, or been involved in something like 43 since between 1968 and 2004. That's almost one per year.

Dawkins has also written a number of articles for all kinds of publications that advance things like science and science education outside of academia. His books are about science and atheism, but targeted at the non-academic community.

What has PeeZus done other than be a second-rate speaker at conferences? Well, for once, we can see http://www.morris.umn.edu/directories/p ... Myers.html

He has ALMOST written one book, and around 28 Academic publications, conference papers and presentations, between 1986 and 2002. First, I'm glad he finally has some details up, because it shows that at least up until 2002 or so, he was you know, being a scientist, not just an asshole. Secondly, in that time period, that is to me, a decent publication record, about two papers a year.

So it's not like PeeZus hasn't actually contributed to science in multiple ways. The problem is, that when you look at what he's done outside of science, and being a jerk on a blog, that's where he falls down. He's *almost* written a book that is going to be...well, his fucking blog. The non-science bits.

He wants to be at Dawkins' level, but that's the goal...to be a name. Dawkins wrote how many books explaining why science and evolution are so important to well, everything. PeeZus's writing, maybe one day, a book on how stupid religious people are.

That's how you become a gadfly, not a leader.


Excellent points all. :clap:


I might point out that Dawkins publication record for peer reviewed articles is not particularly great for an academic scientist.
I did a count of my own published papers and it came to over 40, in a much shorter time frame compared to Dawkins - and I don't consider myself particularly successful in number terms.
PZ Myers, on the other hand has a very sparse publication record. For all his pharyngula mentions of research being carried out in Morris, I don't think he's managed to get a single peer reviewed paper published for many years and before that he didn't have many publications. The average 'creation scientist' working at the Creation Museum has probably a better track record than Myers in this regard.


Dawkins' numbers I based on Wikipedia. PeeZus' are off the 2003 version of his CV, and I freely admit that I don't actually know what's good or bad in terms of paper numbers.

I think the really critical difference is Dawkins' record outside of academia, and all the books he's written that help make science accessible to everyone, not just the people who know about it already. It's the same thing as Neil Tyson. I have no idea about his academic publication record. Given where he's worked, I assume it's adequate. It's the books, and the columns in non-academic magazines and the like that help people understand why science and space are important that have helped Neil become *the* Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

He didn't set out to be famous, he set out to be an astrophysicist and teach people about science. He's just so fucking good at it and so willing to work his ass off at it that becoming famous was almost inevitable.

Put another way...Sally Ride just wanted to be an astronaut and help girls get into science. Paris Hilton wanted to be famous.


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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby welch » Thu May 16, 2013 3:28 pm  •  [Post 21625]

some guy wrote:
Mark Thomas wrote:Justin - I understand the points you make in your piece - and you make a very effective argument - but you did leave the door wide open for her criticism with this sentence: "I fail to see how refusing to believe in God leads to ‘the logical conclusion’ of abandoning the belief that women exist to serve men."

Read from a radical feminist point of view - and they are not prone to giving their critics the benefit of the doubt - it can appear that you are saying YOU HOLD the belief that women exist to serve men, and her arguments are not enough to sway you from that view.

Had you written this sentence - I fail to see how refusing to believe in God leads to ‘the logical conclusion’ of abandoning the belief (one which I do not share) that women exist to serve men - her ability to write that piece is limited. Of course, she's going to distort your views - this is a political argument and opposing sides always paint themselves in the best possible light and their opponents in the worst. But in my opinion you handed her a hanging slider out over the heart of the plate on this one.


Although I didn't go read things to get the context, I fail to see how saying "I fail to see how 'A' leads to 'the logical conclusion' of 'B'" means that the speaker is implying anything about whether or not he believes 'B'.
And the proper response to someone who claims the speaker implied he believes B is not to chastise the originally speaker, but rather the person who can't understand what he said.



I got what justin was trying to say. But the piece wasn't written well enough to say it the way it needed to be said.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby welch » Thu May 16, 2013 3:29 pm  •  [Post 21626]

bovarchist wrote:
welch wrote:What has PeeZus done other than be a second-rate speaker at conferences? Well, for once, we can see http://www.morris.umn.edu/directories/p ... Myers.html

He has ALMOST written one book, and around 28 Academic publications, conference papers and presentations, between 1986 and 2002. First, I'm glad he finally has some details up, because it shows that at least up until 2002 or so, he was you know, being a scientist, not just an asshole. Secondly, in that time period, that is to me, a decent publication record, about two papers a year.

So it's not like PeeZus hasn't actually contributed to science in multiple ways. The problem is, that when you look at what he's done outside of science, and being a jerk on a blog, that's where he falls down. He's *almost* written a book that is going to be...well, his fucking blog. The non-science bits.

He wants to be at Dawkins' level, but that's the goal...to be a name. Dawkins wrote how many books explaining why science and evolution are so important to well, everything. PeeZus's writing, maybe one day, a book on how stupid religious people are.

That's how you become a gadfly, not a leader.


That CV just can't be up to date, can it? He's really published no papers since 2002? Brought no grant money to the university since then either? How does he still have a job? They don't give tenure to assistant professors, do they?



It's not been updated since 2003. So that's the last year it can be shown to be accurate for.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby welch » Thu May 16, 2013 3:30 pm  •  [Post 21627]

ERV wrote:While Twatson, Marcotte, and PZ have been hard at work, slaving away at blog posts full of screen-shots, Twatter conversations, and delusions of grandeur-- desperate attempts to feel some semblance of emotion in their boring, hollow, wasted lives-- Ive been derping around with my stupid 'will change the way we study HIV and could be applied to most viruses' invention.

I got it up from ~27% efficiency to... *drumroll*... 42% efficiency! (I think its a little higher)

I thought I had it at 80% efficiency at one point, but it was an artifact of small sample size :(

Will know by Monday if it can do the job I created it to do at that rate.

:popcorn:


Shit, that's still a pretty big increase.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby windy » Thu May 16, 2013 3:37 pm  •  [Post 21628]

Web of Knowledge wrote:Title: Zietsch & Santtila's study is not evidence against the by-product theory of female orgasm
Author(s): Wallen, Kim; Myers, P. Z.; Lloyd, Elisabeth A.
Source: ANIMAL BEHAVIOUR Volume: 84 Issue: 5 Pages: E1-E4 DOI: 10.1016/j.anbehav.2012.05.023 Published: NOV 2012


Innnteresting. This is a letter criticizing a research article- if anyone's curious, the authors respond to the criticism here:

Confusion in the science of evolution and orgasm: a reply to Wallen, Myers and Lloyd
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby ERV » Thu May 16, 2013 3:39 pm  •  [Post 21629]

cunt wrote:What's it being efficient at doing?

Im trying for controlled chaos/strategic randomness, but sometimes this randomness leads to death because of a shit part (its just a limitation of todays technology- it will get better over time) and it pisses me off.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AbsurdWalls » Thu May 16, 2013 3:45 pm  •  [Post 21630]

ERV wrote:
cunt wrote:What's it being efficient at doing?

Im trying for controlled chaos/strategic randomness, but sometimes this randomness leads to death because of a shit part (its just a limitation of todays technology- it will get better over time) and it pisses me off.


Sounds like stochastic terrorism to me.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby KiwiInOz » Thu May 16, 2013 3:46 pm  •  [Post 21631]

cunt wrote:What's it being efficient at doing?


Messing with her mind, it would appear.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby welch » Thu May 16, 2013 3:49 pm  •  [Post 21632]

ERV wrote:
cunt wrote:What's it being efficient at doing?

Im trying for controlled chaos/strategic randomness, but sometimes this randomness leads to death because of a shit part (its just a limitation of todays technology- it will get better over time) and it pisses me off.



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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby sacha » Thu May 16, 2013 3:50 pm  •  [Post 21633]

Lsuoma wrote:
sacha wrote:The intelligence of the corvids is unbelievable. They thrive everywhere in the world excluding the polar ice caps. Their cognitive abilities are known to be on par with the Great Apes, and are thought to be the most intelligent animal other than humans. They also remember faces for years, and pass that information down to their offspring. Refer to them as "wimps" at your own risk.

Indeed.

Mrs Lsuoma and I were taking a break on the Pacific Coast at Kalaloch last year. There was a seal carcass washed up on the beach, and a Bald Eagle was eating. Over a period of about 15-20 minutes we watched four crows gather and start tormenting the eagle. One or two would face it, while a third would fly low over its head. the fourth stood behind the eagle and pulled at its tail feathers. After about 20 minutes the eagle, who had displayed relative equanimity, got pissed off, jumped on top of the ex-seal, and tried to fly off with it - no chance! A few minutes later it appeared to decide "WTF" and flew off, leaving the seal carcass to the crows.

Interesting to watch, and very educational...


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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AndrewV69 » Thu May 16, 2013 3:57 pm  •  [Post 21634]

In other news:

False reports outpace sex assaults in the military
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -military/

The number of “unfounded allegations” looks low to me. I would have expected it to hit around 20% at a minimum instead of 17%.

I just removed a whole bunch of sarcastic remarks. Those here with mil service will probably have your own.
Disce aut discede
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Gumby » Thu May 16, 2013 4:01 pm  •  [Post 21635]

sacha wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:
sacha wrote:The intelligence of the corvids is unbelievable. They thrive everywhere in the world excluding the polar ice caps. Their cognitive abilities are known to be on par with the Great Apes, and are thought to be the most intelligent animal other than humans. They also remember faces for years, and pass that information down to their offspring. Refer to them as "wimps" at your own risk.

Indeed.

Mrs Lsuoma and I were taking a break on the Pacific Coast at Kalaloch last year. There was a seal carcass washed up on the beach, and a Bald Eagle was eating. Over a period of about 15-20 minutes we watched four crows gather and start tormenting the eagle. One or two would face it, while a third would fly low over its head. the fourth stood behind the eagle and pulled at its tail feathers. After about 20 minutes the eagle, who had displayed relative equanimity, got pissed off, jumped on top of the ex-seal, and tried to fly off with it - no chance! A few minutes later it appeared to decide "WTF" and flew off, leaving the seal carcass to the crows.

Interesting to watch, and very educational...


Z0w9q125TSI


I've always liked this one:

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby sacha » Thu May 16, 2013 4:01 pm  •  [Post 21636]

DownThunder wrote:
TedDahlberg wrote:Ugh, I have a friend who seems to be heading down the feminism rabbit hole. A while back she made some comment about how I couldn't understand what life was like for women because I had a penis¹. She seemed taken aback that that comment would upset me, I'm not sure she understood why but at least she didn't pursue that line further. There ahve been other weird comments since. Now she's posted some link on Facebook to one of those "why I need feminism things," full of dubious claims. I won't touch any of it with a ten-foot-pole unless I have to, but I'd hate to lose a good friend over something as stupid as this. Because she's not unreasonable, but I can tell from the things she says sometimes that she's buying a rhetoric eerily similar to the FtB style feminism. I just hope it doesn't go that far. Feminism in moderation I can live with, and it might even be a good thing. Right, unsolicited venting over.

¹The reason that this argument tends to actually make me angry is that, in essence, it says "you're a sociopath". Can I know what it's like to be a woman? No, but socially awkward as I am I still have enough empathy to be able to imagine. I put it on almost the exact same level as not being able to know what it's like to be the man in the office next to mine. I have to exercise my imagination just as much to put myself in his place. Sure, we both have a cock, but unless we're talking about the mechanics and sensation of sex, how does that translate into an inability to imagine a different social situation than my own? All saying "you can't understand" does is annoy me and make me go "fine, I won't try then". It's counter-productive and stupid.


Ive had similar experiences, both christian friends and a few buying the church style anti-porn/prostitution feminism. Im not sure how old you are or whether I am just jaded before my time, but don't be afraid to lose friends. IME spending time around people who you are constantly afraid to offend, while they are quite happy to scold you, are unhealthy friendships.

To be honest most feminist rhetoric in nice or less nice ways states that most men are sociopathic, while at the same time being highly lacking in empathy. The "cant understand being a woman" line is purely to cut off any claim you have for empathy. Yes, you cannot understand everything about being a woman, but to imply that there are not common elements in gender identities is obviously narrow minded and short sighted. From experience they are denying that you can feel and be subjected to irrational discrimination, harm and violation because you lack the status of being a woman.

Any "friend" showing that behaviour needs to be booted to the curb. I think you're being manipulated.


I don't understand those women, or their perspective at all, and I "am with cunt" (hit tip to the amazon for that one)
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby sacha » Thu May 16, 2013 4:07 pm  •  [Post 21637]

Aneris wrote:
rayshul wrote:Lsuoma are we going to get 'pit blogs? :D I am totally up for that shit.


Yeah, bring it on. One must acknowledge, for a mere forum that basically has only one thread, we're holding up quite well in terms of internet fame (or notoriety).


indeed I'm always pleasantly surprised when I realise we have become notorious. It seems our reputation is actually becoming less infamous and more respected, which is such sweet revenge.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby welch » Thu May 16, 2013 4:23 pm  •  [Post 21638]

AndrewV69 wrote:In other news:

False reports outpace sex assaults in the military
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -military/

The number of “unfounded allegations” looks low to me. I would have expected it to hit around 20% at a minimum instead of 17%.

I just removed a whole bunch of sarcastic remarks. Those here with mil service will probably have your own.



When your money quotes come from the Family Research Council and the Center for Military Readiness, a group with, among others, James Dobson and Phyllis Schlafly on its board, and given the background of the author of the story, you maybe should consider that the article has a rather extreme slant.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby d4m10n » Thu May 16, 2013 4:27 pm  •  [Post 21639]

Dick Strawkins wrote:First image of Vacula arriving at the WISC2 hotel.

Oi! Vacula, when we suggested you should take precautions against an attack by Marcotte, this isn't what we meant!

Image


LOL!

For a second there, I thought you were serious about not "deliberately provoking them" but I suppose not so much. :p
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby sacha » Thu May 16, 2013 4:36 pm  •  [Post 21640]

TedDahlberg wrote:
I agree completely when you say "IME spending time around people who you are constantly afraid to offend, while they are quite happy to scold you, are unhealthy friendships," and frankly that's advice everyone should hear. I experienced a textbook example with another person who I'd known for years. They were vegetarian when I met them, and slowly became more and more vegan over the years, to the point that there wasn't a single piece of food in my house good enough for them, and they'd make sure to let me know that they were indeed a little better than me because I ate meat. Then the social justice started creeping in as well, and the final straw was when I was showing them and their boyfriend (nice guy) the first episode of Game of Thrones and they got up without a word and walked out at the Daenerys sex scene. The boyfriend stayed a few more minutes, more and more embarrassed, then left too. Haven't talked to them in person since, and while that's sad, as you say at some point it isn't worth it.


As most of you know, I'm vegetarian, bordering on vegan. Have been for over 29 years. I don't preach, nor do I try to change anyone. It's a decision that is right for me. I can't imagine going into someone's house and scolding them for their choices in the food they have. Gentle ribbing with my good friends, but they do the same to me.
My house is a vegetarian house excluding the dog food and bones. I expect my friends to respect that, and I respect the way they want their homes. Don't shove meat in my face, and I won't shove my vegetarianism in yours.
I even have good friends who hunt. Before I met them, I never thought I could be friendly with hunters, but I am quite comfortable at their home. The deer heads on the wall made me feel very sad and disgusted at first, but I am used to it now. They often invite me to go duck hunting with them, and I always politely decline. They have always been respectful of my decision, and make sure to have something vegetarian to nibble on at their parties, and they always ask if this or that is something I would eat. I know that some sort of meat will always be served, and I would not expect anything different. We have been friends for over nine years now, and I've never had a problem. It's not what the friendship is based on. Not all vegetarian/vegans are preachy and obnoxious.

As for the first Daenerys sex scene, I thought it was hot.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby ConcentratedH2O, OM » Thu May 16, 2013 4:36 pm  •  [Post 21641]

Dick Strawkins wrote:First image of Vacula arriving at the WISC2 hotel.

Oi! Vacula, when we suggested you should take precautions against an attack by Marcotte, this isn't what we meant!

Image


Amazing! Well done!
"Tone trolling? Really? You find the particular arrangement of four letters in a word more detrimental to discourse than sneering assholes showing up to argue with women about their right to autonomy?"
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Scented Nectar » Thu May 16, 2013 4:37 pm  •  [Post 21642]

ERV wrote:OH MY GOD I CANT MATH!

Its at 58%!!! (again, a low-ball estimate, so probably higher!)


WHOOOOO!

WHOOOOOOOOO!

This is exciting. I barely know anything about it, but it's already exciting. Congrats! :)
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby cunt » Thu May 16, 2013 4:38 pm  •  [Post 21643]

welch wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote:In other news:

False reports outpace sex assaults in the military
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -military/

The number of “unfounded allegations” looks low to me. I would have expected it to hit around 20% at a minimum instead of 17%.

I just removed a whole bunch of sarcastic remarks. Those here with mil service will probably have your own.



When your money quotes come from the Family Research Council and the Center for Military Readiness, a group with, among others, James Dobson and Phyllis Schlafly on its board, and given the background of the author of the story, you maybe should consider that the article has a rather extreme slant.


He's getting this from the washington times though man! Thats like, a really official, respectable sounding name for a newspaper!
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby sacha » Thu May 16, 2013 4:40 pm  •  [Post 21644]

Gumby wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:More from the neverending page of whining.

I think Vacula is on to something here.
It is a symbiotic relationship. 90% of comments on B and W come from drama posts rather than anything to do with religion and, as Justin suggests, Ophelia never shuts up about him. She's like a free PR firm.


Ophelia defines her station in life by the quantity and quality of the imaginary harassment she receives. She's trippin' the life stochastic.


well done!
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Scented Nectar » Thu May 16, 2013 4:44 pm  •  [Post 21645]

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
cunt wrote:What's it being efficient at doing?


Preferentially infecting men. Abbie has mutated the virus to be gender-specific; it's her way of smashing the patriarchy.

Back in the early 80s, the feminist who was my cult mentor as a gendercidal separatist, told me there was a new disease which seems to only be killing men (back when they were noticing gay men getting sick). She was hopeful that this new disease would wipe out all the men in the world, leaving it for women only, in some idealistic matriarchal magical paradise.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby DownThunder » Thu May 16, 2013 4:46 pm  •  [Post 21646]

sacha wrote:I don't understand those women, or their perspective at all, and I "am with cunt" (hit tip to the amazon for that one)


I can think of motives. I admit to being something of a doormat as a teenager. At the time I was unassertive, lacking in confidence not to mention dealing with weight issues. I think I was socially useful to the girls in my group of friends, ie I was useful for padding out numbers in social gatherings but then they had little interest in interacting with me personally one-on-one, one girl I was interested in was quite happy to talk at length about guys jilting her and how men are "all like that", and I now think back and facepalm as I reacted the usual way guys do "oh, we're not all like that", instead of me saying F U, then getting on my motorbike and riding into the sunset.* I let myself be used, but Im quite happy to say I fixed all those issues as soon as I hit my 20's.

*Actual motorcycle rider here
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby lost control » Thu May 16, 2013 4:47 pm  •  [Post 21647]

Cunt said something like (sorry for the bad paraphrasing, I've canned two replies which turned into a whine about myself) he should do something more useful with his life, and I only can add a +1 or me too.
Good luck, Abby, I hope that stuff I have no clue about works out as you hope.

Renee: All the best to your mate and his recovery.

I skipped some of the thread, so I don't exactly know what's up, but: Best wishes to Al, too...

I hope I haven't missed anything major.

Rest of pit: Hi!

Back to occasionally lurking. (the FfTB drama seems to bore me by now)

(My gal's way better, but still exhausted after those weeks in the hospital, tomorrow, let's hope she's up for a trip this weekend, I want to take her to my brother with an interlude to meet her sister as they haven't seen each other for two years.)
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby sacha » Thu May 16, 2013 4:49 pm  •  [Post 21648]

ReneeHendricks wrote:
Skep tickle wrote:
I forgot about the PEG - is there a plan to take that out or is it just 'wait and see' right now? And have they said anything about whether his taste buds will recover, & when?

It sounds like at least the pain and the sense of difficulty breathing are better, I hope (latter might have only been w/ that stent & positioning during XRT treatments).


He has to be able to take in food through his mouth and maintain his weight before they'll take the stomach peg out. His pain is almost gone. As far as his taste buds, the doctors have said it could take up to a year before things start tasting normal. That part bugs the shit out of him.


excellent news, Renee! I can understand his frustration with food no longer being enjoyable, as that is an important joy of life. My father takes medication that affects his taste buds, and food no longer holds any joy for him either. I hope that it is very temporary for your man, and he ends up feeling it was well worth it.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby ConcentratedH2O, OM » Thu May 16, 2013 4:55 pm  •  [Post 21649]

Image

This is surely proof that Opheliar has gone beyond reading a bit too much into internet comments, and is now thoroughly in the land of (clinically diagnosable?) paranoia.

I mean, how the fuck can even her most ardent supporters look at this and not see that the cunt is crazy? She is clearly the one stalking Vacula and others, reading their Twits and whatever else, looking for anything she can read as harassing her good self.

"Sigh. It just won't stop," she says, like Vacula is sat under her breakfast table, poking at her legs with a fork. The fucker has written a twit - which you somehow wish us to view as an act of harassment - stating how many times you have mentioned him in your scribblings.

I'm genuinely fucking confused, wondering how she can be so shameless (or, which would lead to my sympathy, clinically bonkers) as to turn Vacula's post (which was not linked to her, and thus must have been actively searched out) on its head and claim it is him harassing her.

Cunt.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby KiwiInOz » Thu May 16, 2013 4:55 pm  •  [Post 21650]

sacha wrote: Don't shove meat in my face


And here was I thinking you liked dominant men.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby bhoytony » Thu May 16, 2013 4:59 pm  •  [Post 21651]

Jonathan wrote:

"Buddha was clinically obese"

.


Bullshit.

Greetings from South East Asia.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Pitchguest » Thu May 16, 2013 5:02 pm  •  [Post 21652]

lost control wrote:Cunt said something like (sorry for the bad paraphrasing, I've canned two replies which turned into a whine about myself) he should do something more useful with his life, and I only can add a +1 or me too.
Good luck, Abby, I hope that stuff I have no clue about works out as you hope.

Renee: All the best to your mate and his recovery.

I skipped some of the thread, so I don't exactly know what's up, but: Best wishes to Al, too...

I hope I haven't missed anything major.

Rest of pit: Hi!

Back to occasionally lurking. (the FfTB drama seems to bore me by now)

(My gal's way better, but still exhausted after those weeks in the hospital, tomorrow, let's hope she's up for a trip this weekend, I want to take her to my brother with an interlude to meet her sister as they haven't seen each other for two years.)


Hey! Listen, lc, don't be a stranger. Best of luck to your gal. ;)
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby sacha » Thu May 16, 2013 5:05 pm  •  [Post 21653]

ERV wrote:While Twatson, Marcotte, and PZ have been hard at work, slaving away at blog posts full of screen-shots, Twatter conversations, and delusions of grandeur-- desperate attempts to feel some semblance of emotion in their boring, hollow, wasted lives-- Ive been derping around with my stupid 'will change the way we study HIV and could be applied to most viruses' invention.

I got it up from ~27% efficiency to... *drumroll*... 42% efficiency! (I think its a little higher)




you go, girl!
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby sacha » Thu May 16, 2013 5:12 pm  •  [Post 21654]

Gumby wrote:
I've always liked this one:




that's one of my favourites! This sort of thing is what led scientists to the theory that the corvids' cognitive abilities surpass the great apes.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby sacha » Thu May 16, 2013 5:20 pm  •  [Post 21655]

KiwiInOz wrote:
sacha wrote: Don't shove meat in my face


And here was I thinking you liked dominant men.


that's a different kettle of fish. I should have specified dead flesh as opposed to virile

Wiki's definition of virility:
Virility (from the latin word "viri", meaning man or manly) refers to any of a wide range of masculine characteristics viewed positively...
The Oxford English Dictionary (OED1) says virile is "marked by strength or force."
Historically, masculine attributes such as beard growth have been seen as signs of virility.


I do love a beard
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby JackSkeptic » Thu May 16, 2013 5:21 pm  •  [Post 21656]

Pitchguest wrote:So Amanda Marcotte makes the incredible argument that sexual harassment is a right because free speech is a right, in response to someone who said that freedom of speech is a right and labelling speech you don't like as harassment doesn't magically make it so.

I said that was a correlation that didn't equal causation and thus a logical fallacy, because it is. (If there's a more appropriate logical fallacy that applies here, let me know. I'm drawing a blank.) But according to another poster, it's a ... syllogism. Huh.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/16/f ... -899458029



It is not a syllogism unless you can link sexual harassment to free speech. If you can it is. As it reads it is flawed logic. As you say as I see no causal link. It may actually be circular reasoning, an association fallacy and/or a tautology.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby bhoytony » Thu May 16, 2013 5:31 pm  •  [Post 21657]

RE: bad poetry

I remember when I was eleven having to read some shitty poetry in school. I later had a browse through the book we were studying and came across a poem by Yoko Ono titled "Water" I can still quote it in full. here you are:

Water

Even at that age I knew this was a pile of pseudo-intellectual shite and I've avoided most poetry since.

I do have a bit of a soft spot for YB Yeats and I think I might have quoted his "An Irish Airman Foresees His Death" on this forum earlier. I think that might have been in the same book as Yoko's poetic turd.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby JackSkeptic » Thu May 16, 2013 5:31 pm  •  [Post 21658]

Mark Thomas wrote:
some guy wrote:Although I didn't go read things to get the context, I fail to see how saying "I fail to see how 'A' leads to 'the logical conclusion' of 'B'" means that the speaker is implying anything about whether or not he believes 'B'.
And the proper response to someone who claims the speaker implied he believes B is not to chastise the originally speaker, but rather the person who can't understand what he said.


You're correct - saying B doesn't follow A isn't in itself an endorsement of B. However, the way Justin phrased it, coupled with the absence of any sentence in the piece flatly stating 'I disagree with B,' he left the door open for an uncharitable opponent to interpret his meaning in the worst possible way. Marcotte walked through that door.

When politicians do it it's called a gaffe - and they are almost always followed by an apology or a re-statement of their position. And that's exactly what Justin should do here in my opinion. In a debate like this it would have the effect of showing humility, humor (if done correctly), and a willingness to concede that your opponent - at times - has a point.

Given my experience over at skepchick this week, they appear to display none of those traits - a losing political strategy in my mind. I believe more people will agree with someone who is willing to be inclusive, compromise, and admit they are human and therefore not perfect, as opposed to someone who exhibits authoritarianism, enforces groupthink or a rigid adherence to dogma.


They misrepresent what someone says all the time. They are looking for an apology (which they won't accept anyway) and every chance they get to lie and misrepresent someone they take it. JV said nothing wrong. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows what he said is correct. If they want to play politics they can but for me rationalism wins every time over a bunch of people playing games.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby cunt » Thu May 16, 2013 5:31 pm  •  [Post 21659]

Oh fuck. It's a syllogistic fallacy, illicit minor. But really, she was just being a bitch.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby KiwiInOz » Thu May 16, 2013 5:33 pm  •  [Post 21660]

sacha wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
sacha wrote: Don't shove meat in my face


And here was I thinking you liked dominant men.


that's a different kettle of fish. I should have specified dead flesh as opposed to virile

Wiki's definition of virility:
Virility (from the latin word "viri", meaning man or manly) refers to any of a wide range of masculine characteristics viewed positively...
The Oxford English Dictionary (OED1) says virile is "marked by strength or force."
Historically, masculine attributes such as beard growth have been seen as signs of virility.


I do love a beard


There's my ticket to SF paid for - savings on razor blades.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AndrewV69 » Thu May 16, 2013 5:37 pm  •  [Post 21661]

welch wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote:In other news:

False reports outpace sex assaults in the military
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -military/

The number of “unfounded allegations” looks low to me. I would have expected it to hit around 20% at a minimum instead of 17%.

I just removed a whole bunch of sarcastic remarks. Those here with mil service will probably have your own.



When your money quotes come from the Family Research Council and the Center for Military Readiness, a group with, among others, James Dobson and Phyllis Schlafly on its board, and given the background of the author of the story, you maybe should consider that the article has a rather extreme slant.


I know about Schlafly and I am not too worried about her. Dobson I know nothing about. Should I?
Here is a list of recent articles by Scarborough. I do not see anything too problematic but tell me more.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/staff/rowan-scarborough/
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby cunt » Thu May 16, 2013 5:38 pm  •  [Post 21662]

Not too worried about getting the truth from Schlafly? You are a fucking joke.
You are a bad person. You say horrible things and you should feel bad about yourself.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AndrewV69 » Thu May 16, 2013 5:44 pm  •  [Post 21663]

cunt wrote:Not too worried about getting the truth from Schlafly? You are a fucking joke.


I am not too worried about Marcotte either. How do you like them apples?
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby cunt » Thu May 16, 2013 6:01 pm  •  [Post 21664]

These apples, they don't make any sense, and you're getting your news straight from the christian dominionist movement.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AndrewV69 » Thu May 16, 2013 6:06 pm  •  [Post 21665]

Recently:

Comments over at Fogg have paused:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/2013 ... -disguise/

The usual suspects have shown up at Chron including oolon, A hermit and Bruce McGlory:
http://blog.chron.com/sacredduty/2013/0 ... -movement/
Disce aut discede
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