Slyme Pit Orgy, Sponsored by Vicky's Bewbs

[welch]

I've sat on this shit with Laden and Hensley, a wonderful team that, for quite some time. I think her once again describing people who she threatens as stalkers is a brilliant move. For me. While I'm writing the voice over for a video about exactly that.

Hensley threatening my employ? You know, having seen what Hensley does, I've decided that she can't not follow through. So I might as well hit it head on.

The problem is, when working on this stuff, I have to ignore the constant stream of update-rewrite-worthy horseshit coming from them.

I'm planning a meeting with my managers at work to explain the "FTB situation"... just in case. I'm pseudonymous here but I was friends for many years with an FTBer as well as several other now-rad feminists, so I'm not sure how long that safety will last. And I haven't visited any of their sites or engaged with them on any media, even when they tried - I'm a militant block/banner because I can't run the risk of engaging.

Being proactive about this shit is really the best way to go, I think.

I've been pissing people off on the internet for a decade or more. I make sure employers know about it before I come on board. Saves time, and is more honest.

[Cunning Punt]

Re the future: I for one am predicting it ending by attrition. How can they not simply splinter further and further, basically into different "denominations" of people who think all the others are evil, just like Christians have done?

The only reason their "leaders" seem to be agreeing is because they're in different spaces. When they do interact, disagreements come to light & in some cases they use their crowd-control tactics on each other.

Various examples of the Chosen quarreling in Eden: Richard Carrier's "promotion" of Atheism+ early on. Matt Dillahunty pissing off the Atheism+ forum denizens, first by asking questions, then by being a big name, and finally (as an the excuse, I think) for violating a rule. Greg Laden harassing Justin Griffiths and others and being supported by Stephanie Zvan. PZ listing Richard Dawkins Foundation among the good guys, which pisses Rebecca Watson off. Greta telling the A+ staff (apparently in no uncertain terms) not to use her & her Fluevogs in a banner they were excitedly planning to display across the top of the A+ forum.

Then there's the attrition among their ranks, examples including Atheism+ forum steadily banning or alienating people who have joined when they had their big influx, in late August & early September 2012, with new members only trickling in lately; all the people who have found their way here after becoming disenchanted by (and/or blocked/banned from) FtB/Skepchick/A+; Julian currently in the process of flouncing from each of the sites. It just seems unlikely that they are, or could, attract enough new members to replace the one's they're alienating.

Well, we'll see. :popcorn:

And don't forget Natalie Reed, who just announced yesterday she is leaving Ftb:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed ... ouncement/

She left Skepchick before that, didn't she? Anyone know what her disagreement was with them?

[John Greg]

bhoytony said (re Louis):

Yes it was great! He is so wise and reasonable, above all the petty squabbles we mere mortals engage in. His interest is in higher things that we can only aspire to. I feel blessed to be in his company.

Ditto. Me too. I now feel so ashamed for being me.

Za-zen said:

... what interests me is the fact he's willing to engage.

Fuck me. If that's "engaging", I'd rather talk feminism and honesty with PeeZus and Stefunny.

[Lurkion]

http://i.imgur.com/KuKDvfs.jpg

Oh fuck me, somebody give this a dramatic reading please. Something with a bit of Beethoven in the background.

Guys. I'm going to flog this again.

It's my dramatic reading of the FtB comment...

[DownThunder]

I've sat on this shit with Laden and Hensley, a wonderful team that, for quite some time. I think her once again describing people who she threatens as stalkers is a brilliant move. For me. While I'm writing the voice over for a video about exactly that.

Hensley threatening my employ? You know, having seen what Hensley does, I've decided that she can't not follow through. So I might as well hit it head on.

The problem is, when working on this stuff, I have to ignore the constant stream of update-rewrite-worthy horseshit coming from them.

I'm planning a meeting with my managers at work to explain the "FTB situation"... just in case. I'm pseudonymous here but I was friends for many years with an FTBer as well as several other now-rad feminists, so I'm not sure how long that safety will last. And I haven't visited any of their sites or engaged with them on any media, even when they tried - I'm a militant block/banner because I can't run the risk of engaging.

Being proactive about this shit is really the best way to go, I think.

How does one not sound sheepish when starting that kind of conversation with your employer?

Uh, yeah, so I contribute to this place called the slymepit. You may or may not hear some bad things about it, but let me put your mind at ease anyhow....

[Altair]

@Louis

On Pharyngula, more specifically on the "Trumped" thread, you wrote

I was really unimpressed by crowing over claimed profound “logical victories” which, in the couple of instances I saw linked to and subsequently read weren’t anything of the type, just more point missing, question begging, assumption laden crap

.

What about we discuss this point? You quote or link the "couple instances" you talk about, and tell us why you think they're "just more point missing, question begging, assumption laden crap".
Quotes or links help the discussion a lot more than vague generalizations about "logical victories".

Just as in the case of the comments by members of the pit you read, let's deal with specifics. Quote those comments, quote those "logical victories", give us something to discuss and argue.

It’s all a bit disappointing really. I can’t muster enormous outrage because I don’t know these people, they just seem a bit crap. They don’t seem like the folks I’ve met at atheist/sceptic meet ups and what not, they don’t seem like any of my colleagues or friends. I guess I’m just lucky that I tend not to meet people who obsessively hatefap over the internet over mean women who won’t fuck them and mean people who won’t tolerate their bullshit

After reading this I don't think your statement that you don't think ALL the members of the pit are the same or are ALL guilty of "evil things" is true. I would also like to have some evidence regarding these people who hatefap over the mean women who won't fuck them.
Who are they? How do you know they are hate fapping? Ho do you know what they fap over?

[welch]

Re the future: I for one am predicting it ending by attrition. How can they not simply splinter further and further, basically into different "denominations" of people who think all the others are evil, just like Christians have done?

The only reason their "leaders" seem to be agreeing is because they're in different spaces. When they do interact, disagreements come to light & in some cases they use their crowd-control tactics on each other.

Various examples of the Chosen quarreling in Eden: Richard Carrier's "promotion" of Atheism+ early on. Matt Dillahunty pissing off the Atheism+ forum denizens, first by asking questions, then by being a big name, and finally (as an the excuse, I think) for violating a rule. Greg Laden harassing Justin Griffiths and others and being supported by Stephanie Zvan. PZ listing Richard Dawkins Foundation among the good guys, which pisses Rebecca Watson off. Greta telling the A+ staff (apparently in no uncertain terms) not to use her & her Fluevogs in a banner they were excitedly planning to display across the top of the A+ forum.

Then there's the attrition among their ranks, examples including Atheism+ forum steadily banning or alienating people who have joined when they had their big influx, in late August & early September 2012, with new members only trickling in lately; all the people who have found their way here after becoming disenchanted by (and/or blocked/banned from) FtB/Skepchick/A+; Julian currently in the process of flouncing from each of the sites. It just seems unlikely that they are, or could, attract enough new members to replace the one's they're alienating.

Well, we'll see. :popcorn:

And don't forget Natalie Reed, who just announced yesterday she is leaving Ftb:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed ... ouncement/

She left Skepchick before that, didn't she? Anyone know what her disagreement was with them?

hard to say. If I'm reading her post correctly, I understand why she's killing the blog, and FWIW, I feel bad for her situation. Major medical procedures and nowhere to live suck.

I would also hope that SOMEONE in the FTB lot at least offered her a place to stay while she recuperates from surgery. If I had a friend in that situation, I wouldn't be offering, I'd be damned near packing their bags so when they got here, their stuff would be ready to go. If she's not exaagerating her homeless state, da fuq people, how do you just let that happen, especially to someone you care about?

[Apples]

And, frankly, despite the fact that your source is guilty of betraying everyone's trust, and putting some of our members at risk of serious harm, while the most you can claim on those of us who used the private forum is that we didn't invite you. Do you see the problem?

Come clean, wind. We have.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... start=1575

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexpe ... anding.jpg

[Skep tickle]

[spoiler]

..snip...
Then there's the attrition among their ranks, examples including Atheism+ forum steadily banning or alienating people who have joined when they had their big influx, in late August & early September 2012, with new members only trickling in lately; all the people who have found their way here after becoming disenchanted by (and/or blocked/banned from) FtB/Skepchick/A+; Julian currently in the process of flouncing from each of the sites. It just seems unlikely that they are, or could, attract enough new members to replace the one's they're alienating.

Well, we'll see. :popcorn:

If they didn't have such a stranglehold on the conference organizers, I'd agree with you. But I suspect that the conference organizations are the point of contact for many new members, many of whom are looking for something to believe in (as most humans appear to need). Meanwhile, the number who actively oppose them, while not small, I'd argue it doesn't grow very fast ether. Most people ether feed off the drama (and thus, fit in with their crowd) or don't want to participate, instead walking away or ignoring the issue. Hopefully Shermer's recent article on the pitfalls of ignoring them until they turn on you will inspire others. But for all the members they've lost, I suspect they've gained an equal number of devout followers (plus all those who don't know any better, who will eventually drop away), and will continue to do so as long as they control the intake through control of the bulk of the organizations. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I think they love the drama too much to ever give it up, while reasonable people can only take it for so long before they walk away.

[/spoiler]

Hence my advocating a more long-term method for diluting the power those prats have. It's not terribly rewarding in the short term, but it does work. Keep in mind that while the hensley lot has power over some conferences, they don't have power over all of them. They don't appear to have any real power over either JREF or AA. It's fair to say, i think, that the Rock Beyond Belief folks aren't real enamored of them either. So their influence may be a bit overstated. Skepticon they own, but meh.

In addition, the smaller groups are a better way to start. If you have a local group you care about, when they are having an event, find local speakers you'd like to hear, or offer a session yourself. Not on this idiocy, but on real topics. For example, Abbie talks about what she does, and how denying evolution and other science would hurt that. Were I to submit a topic, it would most likely be on the complete lack of critical thinking in the tech press, with the reams of data about the current techno-unicorn, Apple's any-minute-now television set. Another focus would be the OMG INTERNET PREDATORS silliness.

Everyone has an area they have expertise in, and can speak with some competence and authority on to show how a lack of critical thinking/analysis causes problems, if not outright harm. If more people who are not the usual suspects start pushing to be heard, then the power of the FTB lot is diluted, because they are not the only source for information. If nothing else, you get to hear different things. PeeZus's as much as admitted he's recycling shit now. That's a disservice to the people who come to hear him speak, regardless of one's opinion of him.

The idea here isn't to have a groundswell of people "fighting to take back the night". The idea is to have a groundswell of people who aren't those idiots, with smart things to say in areas that aren't the usual blather. While getting to where you can speak at a TAM or Skepticon-level show is rather hard, the truth is, those can be ignored. Just go out and do good work with local groups. If enough people do that, then the only places the FTBWats even register is at a handful of big conferences every year, and eventually, they won't matter there either.

Agreed, and one can contribute not just by speaking at events but also by participating & speaking up, including in the governance of the group. (Or regarding the support & participation, as d4m10n communicated to CFI recently.)

I'm involved in my local "[City or Area Name] Atheists" group and am pretty vocal in conveying concerns when I see them (not that others don't also provide that voice along the way, or couldn't).

At least 4 of the people on the group's Board are pro-A+; I find myself speaking up to make sure the perspectives of skeptics, non-A+'ers, white men, and libertarians is/are represented, even when it's not my perspective that I'm conveying firmly. (Example from last fall, soon after A+ forum began, was that the Board wanted to designate itself as an "A+ Safe Space" with the black & white logo, even though they weren't sure exactly what that meant. Recent example was the Board planning to issue something in writing that assumed that members of the group are all politically liberal. In each case I argued that the Board's move would be divisive, ignoring the views & preferences of some fair chunk of our current membership, and in each case the Board revised their plans; no "Safe Space", and editing of the written piece to include broader political views.)

I volunteered to be on the small committee writing the group's "harassment policy" and am looking forward to that group's negotiations. :shock: :lol: First step I've asked is to have the group clarify what venues and people they anticipate this applying to (particularly since quite a few non-members attend our events, which aren't conferences but simply educational or social meetings), and whether the focus should be on behaviors that are prohibited or, more positively, on goals of interaction between members or attendees. Later will come discussion on what the consequences should be when people violate the policy. We haven't gotten all that far; I think they may think I'm making this harder than it should be. :roll:

[Zenspace]

[spoiler]

If they didn't have such a stranglehold on the conference organizers, I'd agree with you. But I suspect that the conference organizations are the point of contact for many new members, many of whom are looking for something to believe in (as most humans appear to need). Meanwhile, the number who actively oppose them, while not small, I'd argue it doesn't grow very fast ether. Most people ether feed off the drama (and thus, fit in with their crowd) or don't want to participate, instead walking away or ignoring the issue. Hopefully Shermer's recent article on the pitfalls of ignoring them until they turn on you will inspire others. But for all the members they've lost, I suspect they've gained an equal number of devout followers (plus all those who don't know any better, who will eventually drop away), and will continue to do so as long as they control the intake through control of the bulk of the organizations. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I think they love the drama too much to ever give it up, while reasonable people can only take it for so long before they walk away.

They can't have popular appeal when they are on the defensive. Take as an example Watson's attack on Evolutionary Psychology, done because EP is a threat to feminist dogma. Not content with making wild claims on the interwebs, she is using conferences as a platform too.

They work on them-and-us. They are just like a cult in that respect. For every convert they make, they make a whole load more enemies... they are going out looking for them. The attack on EP will put her into conflict with the likes of Andy Thompson and Darrel Ray, and how the hell did men's rights activists end up clashing with elements of the sceptical community?

And now she is having a go at Dawkins again. Yes again. They can't let it go, they have to keep hounding their enemies.

And as Acidgate shows, they are descending into absurdity.[/spoiler]

She is just going for a repeat of her first accidental performance that garnered her a bunch of new followers due to the drama. I think Dawkins is smart enough not to engage with her again.

PS: Welcome to the Pyt! You've already been told to fuck off. Also, did I see a reference to a blog in an earlier post?

[soldierwhy]

And, frankly, despite the fact that your source is guilty of betraying everyone's trust, and putting some of our members at risk of serious harm, while the most you can claim on those of us who used the private forum is that we didn't invite you. Do you see the problem?

Come clean, wind. We have.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... start=1575

I just can't look away. I think I now understand why the Victorians used to pay to view the inmates at the asylum.

A+Theism really is my guilty pleasure. Don't hate me for it.

[AbsurdWalls]

And, frankly, despite the fact that your source is guilty of betraying everyone's trust, and putting some of our members at risk of serious harm, while the most you can claim on those of us who used the private forum is that we didn't invite you. Do you see the problem?

Come clean, wind. We have.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... start=1575

I just can't look away. I think I now understand why the Victorians used to pay to view the inmates at the asylum.

A+Theism really is my guilty pleasure. Don't hate me for it.

It's Matt Dillahunty (noted doctor-murderer and abortion-clinic-firebomber) all over again.

[welch]

And, frankly, despite the fact that your source is guilty of betraying everyone's trust, and putting some of our members at risk of serious harm, while the most you can claim on those of us who used the private forum is that we didn't invite you. Do you see the problem?

Come clean, wind. We have.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... start=1575

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexpe ... anding.jpg

Like I said, we don't need to know what goes on in the private forum. The public shit is so awesome on its own.

[Apples]

I would also hope that SOMEONE in the FTB lot at least offered her a place to stay while she recuperates from surgery. If I had a friend in that situation, I wouldn't be offering, I'd be damned near packing their bags so when they got here, their stuff would be ready to go.

FWIW, looks like Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden is stepping up to the plate, at least "for a bit."

I live not terribly far from you & I’m sure you could stay here a bit. We’re crowded, it’s nowhere near ideal, but it’s way better than nothing. LMK if you need a place bad enough to stay with strangers.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed ... ouncement/

[AbsurdWalls]

And, frankly, despite the fact that your source is guilty of betraying everyone's trust, and putting some of our members at risk of serious harm, while the most you can claim on those of us who used the private forum is that we didn't invite you. Do you see the problem?

Come clean, wind. We have.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... start=1575

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexpe ... anding.jpg

Like I said, we don't need to know what goes on in the private forum. The public shit is so awesome on its own.

You know they're going nuts in the private bit trying to find out who the mole is. Maybe the poe is finally breaking cover.

[justinvacula]

From Ophelia's blog - a comment presumably approved:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-426863

[iimg]redacted[/iimg]

Hold the phone!

I thought linking publicly available information was 'doxxing' and forbidden?

[BarnOwl]

/(fill-in-the-blankGate)-unrelated

This has nothing to do with deep rifts or drama in the A/S community, but there are a number of dog- and/or cat-lovers in the 'Pit, so I'm going to request advice and opinions on a situation that's really upsetting me.

My friends adopted a shelter puppy about a year ago, as their beloved purebred dog is getting quite elderly. The puppy is now a beautiful adult dog, sweet-natured and smart, quite energetic and still mischievous about chewing up various things in the yard. Pretty typical for a hound breed at age one year or so. Problem is, the husband of the couple hates the dog. Hates her. Why? "She's needy and wants human attention. She chews on things. She has too much energy." His biggest problem with the dog is that "she's not as well-behaved and independent" as is their elderly dog.

So they want to get rid of the dog. This would not be the first shelter dog that they've dumped on someone else because "it's not like our old dog." The first one was dumped on their ranch caretaker. This one they'd like to dump on me. If push came to shove, I could take her, if money and space were the only considerations. But I have two shelter dogs already, and my old Labbie who passed away last year had been abandoned at their ranch. I've started taking the hound running or walking around the ranch every weekend, and she lerrrvvvsss me for the attention. But I live on a tenth of an acre in the suburbs, and that's a big change of doggie lifestyle from a 100+ acre ranch. Plus I'm worried that, with limited time, I'd have to short my little cutie-dogs on attention and training/walk time. Also, I don't think that rich people should always get away with dumping their problems on someone else, even if it is a friend.

What thinks the 'Pit?

[Altair]

And, frankly, despite the fact that your source is guilty of betraying everyone's trust, and putting some of our members at risk of serious harm, while the most you can claim on those of us who used the private forum is that we didn't invite you. Do you see the problem?

Come clean, wind. We have.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... start=1575

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexpe ... anding.jpg

There's something chillingly Orwellian in Flewellyn's post. I hope they don't start asking Wind how many fingers he/she sees.

[mikelf]

I would also hope that SOMEONE in the FTB lot at least offered her a place to stay while she recuperates from surgery. If I had a friend in that situation, I wouldn't be offering, I'd be damned near packing their bags so when they got here, their stuff would be ready to go. If she's not exaagerating her homeless state, da fuq people, how do you just let that happen, especially to someone you care about?

They were too busy meting out social justice.

http://files.myopera.com/clean/albums/4 ... oes%20.jpg

[welch]

I would also hope that SOMEONE in the FTB lot at least offered her a place to stay while she recuperates from surgery. If I had a friend in that situation, I wouldn't be offering, I'd be damned near packing their bags so when they got here, their stuff would be ready to go.

FWIW, looks like Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden is stepping up to the plate, at least "for a bit."

I live not terribly far from you & I’m sure you could stay here a bit. We’re crowded, it’s nowhere near ideal, but it’s way better than nothing. LMK if you need a place bad enough to stay with strangers.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed ... ouncement/

good. I'm glad to see there's some folks there actually doing stuff to help.

[AbsurdWalls]

From Ophelia's blog - a comment presumably approved:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-426863

[iimg]redacted[/iimg]

Hold the phone!

I thought linking publicly available information was 'doxxing' and forbidden?

I think you've erred here Justin, because even if Ophelia comes to her senses and takes that stuff down we now have it up here and subject to our proud "no memory-hole" rule. Couldn't you have blurred it out or something?

[Zenspace]

[spoiler]

http://i.imgur.com/KuKDvfs.jpg

Oh fuck me, somebody give this a dramatic reading please. Something with a bit of Beethoven in the background.

Guys. I'm going to flog this again.

It's my dramatic reading of the FtB comment...

[/spoiler]

Decent job. Good pathos towards the end and I liked the choice of music for the soundtrack. The video itself is a bit rough on the eyes with the hard cycling, but that's a minor nit overall.

[justinvacula]

http://i.imgur.com/k7zxFJG.jpg

Oh, yes, 'monitoring' people -- seeing what they publicly post on their public blogs and their public Twitter accounts -- is such a problem.

Anyway, there is a group of people sympathetic to Ophelia, I would presume, who happen to 'monitor' 'a small number of us.' Just considering posts about me, a search result of my name in Ophelia's blog shows about 18 posts. Ophelia has blogged about comments I have made on others' blogs, Facebook threads on my profile, Facebook threads on others' profiles, Tweets, articles people write and so much more. Ophelia has, at times, retweeted my tweets, too.

...but of course it's only a problem when people who disagree with her do it. After all, as Ophelia seems to assert, we're "stochastic terrorists" who are inspiring acts of terrorism.

[Mykeru]

[quote="AbsurdWalls"Was he engaged in "STOCHASTIC TERRORISM"? [/quote]

I'm in no mood to read Ophelia Benson's puerile half-bright manipulative shit. Can someone explain brain fluid Benson is leaking with this shit?

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Evening all,

Well I hope this is the right place to put this (i.e. the continuation of the last thread), I assume it is, if the mods tell me different, I have to take my beatings I guess.

I confess I have not read the six pages (so far) of this thread, but I've caught up with the last few of the last one, nice lot of responses. Oh wait, no. Most of them were horseshit. You can have your hate fest all you like, you can play "punch the pharyngulite" all you want, actually you're just giving me the impression that more of you are bitter muppets than I thought. Sorry, but that's the truth. Want me to pretend otherwise?

I haven't flounced, it was nearly 1 am, I went to bed. I didn't post (most of) today because I was BUSY, shock horror (and Tigers beat Toulouse, so I'm also drunk, hurrah!). If all the majority of you are looking for is an "enemy", a scapegoat on whom you can vent your anti-PZ etc wahwahs, great. Rather proves that you're no different from the people you criticise for doing similar things to you, doesn't it?

Oh and Badger, learn to read you simple minded fuck. I never asked for THE argument to Rule Them All, I asked for AN argument for ANYTHING. Wildly different. Do I need to explain that to you as well? Anything other than "waaaah PZ." If all you've got is "PeeZus is creating a cult of personality" and similar, fine. If that's all you are "disagreeing" about, great, that's sated my curiosity, I'm genuinely pleased to know that. Thanks. Not sarcasm, you've answered what I came to find out.

If you want to have a grown up discussion about things without treating me like I am somehow the All FtB Representative then wonderful, if not, then why criticise those people for doing exactly what you are doing? I'm not doing it. Deal with ME. The fact that some people "over there" do it and some people "over here" do it is the boring bit. There's a couple of you (and I've bookmarked a couple of posts) that have tried to make arguments and great, I'll get to those when I can. Apologies for not being able to dedicate my life to a timescale that suits you. That WAS sarcasm.

Toodle pip.

Louis

Louis,if you misconstrued peoples' tone as bitterness, that's unfortunate, but that's your issue. No need to apologise.

You keep missing the point. Arguments over individual issues are not relevant. It's about the right to argue over issues and attempts to poison the well in the atheist community. It's about the tactics being used to do that. Some tried to point that out but you only seemed interested in some agenda you had here. You did appear to be here to defend Pharyngula and were particularly uninterested in finding out the extent to which dissenting opinions are muzzled over there and the disingenuous way it's done, and if you don't understand that, you will never understand the reasons why Myers is so reviled by so many people. There really doesn't seem much point in further communication with you.

Why all of the snidey stuff about hate? There's sometimes anger, disillusionement,amazement, disgust and mirth, but seldom hate. That's an old fundy tactic, projecting hate onto the people mocking you, as is accusing them of stalking and obsession.

[AbsurdWalls]

/(fill-in-the-blankGate)-unrelated

This has nothing to do with deep rifts or drama in the A/S community, but there are a number of dog- and/or cat-lovers in the 'Pit, so I'm going to request advice and opinions on a situation that's really upsetting me.

My friends adopted a shelter puppy about a year ago, as their beloved purebred dog is getting quite elderly. The puppy is now a beautiful adult dog, sweet-natured and smart, quite energetic and still mischievous about chewing up various things in the yard. Pretty typical for a hound breed at age one year or so. Problem is, the husband of the couple hates the dog. Hates her. Why? "She's needy and wants human attention. She chews on things. She has too much energy." His biggest problem with the dog is that "she's not as well-behaved and independent" as is their elderly dog.

So they want to get rid of the dog. This would not be the first shelter dog that they've dumped on someone else because "it's not like our old dog." The first one was dumped on their ranch caretaker. This one they'd like to dump on me. If push came to shove, I could take her, if money and space were the only considerations. But I have two shelter dogs already, and my old Labbie who passed away last year had been abandoned at their ranch. I've started taking the hound running or walking around the ranch every weekend, and she lerrrvvvsss me for the attention. But I live on a tenth of an acre in the suburbs, and that's a big change of doggie lifestyle from a 100+ acre ranch. Plus I'm worried that, with limited time, I'd have to short my little cutie-dogs on attention and training/walk time. Also, I don't think that rich people should always get away with dumping their problems on someone else, even if it is a friend.

What thinks the 'Pit?

You've got two problems really. One is what to do about the dog, and the other is what to do about your friends. Regarding the dog, I think you should take it and see how it works out. If it turns out well then that's dandy. If you feel like it's not working then you'll just have to do whatever your friends would do if you couldn't take him. Regarding your friends, I think you need to communicate to them that they need to stop doing this. That they can't capriciously mess around a dogs need for a stable life like that. Maybe they don't really want another dog? Maybe they should spend more time getting to know them before they take them home.

My two cents.

[AbsurdWalls]

[quote="AbsurdWalls"Was he engaged in "STOCHASTIC TERRORISM"?

I'm in no mood to read Ophelia Benson's puerile half-bright manipulative shit. Can someone explain brain fluid Benson is leaking with this shit?[/quote]

Justin Vacula = Osama Bin Laden

I shit you not.

[Lsuoma]

The DOM in me says...
[spoiler]...maybe.[/spoiler]

Search for "dollycogs hand made"

Impressive. One might almost say spectacular.

[KiwiInOz]

From Ophelia's blog - a comment presumably approved:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-426863

[img]snip[img]

Hold the phone!

I thought linking publicly available information was 'doxxing' and forbidden?

I think you've erred here Justin, because even if Ophelia comes to her senses and takes that stuff down we now have it up here and subject to our proud "no memory-hole" rule. Couldn't you have blurred it out or something?

And now it has been replicated. :shock:

I hope that, whomever this guy Jerry is, he does whomever is Informed Citizen for libel.

[Skep tickle]

And, frankly, despite the fact that your source is guilty of betraying everyone's trust, and putting some of our members at risk of serious harm, while the most you can claim on those of us who used the private forum is that we didn't invite you. Do you see the problem?

Come clean, wind. We have.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... start=1575

img http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexpe ... anding.jpg /img

Like I said, we don't need to know what goes on in the private forum. The public shit is so awesome on its own.

You know they're going nuts in the private bit trying to find out who the mole is. Maybe the poe is finally breaking cover.

This blow up with wind is probably why their total post count rose from ~200/dy for 9 days, to ~320 in 24 hrs yesterday and ~350 in the past 23 hrs.

My guess is that the total post count includes the posts in the area(s) hidden from public view. I hadn't really delved into it, but there hasn't seemed to be 200 posts/dy worth of traffic in the "View Active Topics" view, and the "Are the Moderators..." thread, while busy, sure doesn't explain an additional 150 posts in the past day.

[VickyCaramel]

She is just going for a repeat of her first accidental performance that garnered her a bunch of new followers due to the drama. I think Dawkins is smart enough not to engage with her again.

I doubt he would, but it is polarizing.

PS: Welcome to the Pyt! You've already been told to fuck off. Also, did I see a reference to a blog in an earlier post?

I'm guessing 'fuck off' is a tradition here?

As for my blog, I don't write about atheism on it, it would be of little interest to you. But I do use twitter to take the piss, and I am known to search out non-religious forums where religious loonies are still the majority.

[welch]

I would also hope that SOMEONE in the FTB lot at least offered her a place to stay while she recuperates from surgery. If I had a friend in that situation, I wouldn't be offering, I'd be damned near packing their bags so when they got here, their stuff would be ready to go. If she's not exaagerating her homeless state, da fuq people, how do you just let that happen, especially to someone you care about?

They were too busy meting out social justice.

http://files.myopera.com/clean/albums/4 ... oes%20.jpg

LOL

But seriously, I don't get this. If Natalie is having employment issues, the fuckers at FTB have to know people either in Vancouver or who woule know people who could help her with that. Same thing with housing. This isn't some great movement thing. It's just "hey, I heard about a gig you might be good at, I talked to some folks, they said you should send them a resume" or even just "hey, I've been keeping an eye out for gigs you'd be good for".

This is not hard to do. Maybe it doesn't work out, but at least you try. Fuck, Jen lives sort of in the area, as does Ophelia. They don't know anyone? Really?

To be fair, they may be doing this and just not talking about it. If so, awesome on them. But if not, they should feel deeply ashamed of themselves.

[AbsurdWalls]

Was he engaged in "STOCHASTIC TERRORISM"?

I'm in no mood to read Ophelia Benson's puerile half-bright manipulative shit. Can someone explain brain fluid Benson is leaking with this shit?

Justin Vacula = Osama Bin Laden

I shit you not.

You broke the code Mykeru you shit.

[rayshul]

From Ophelia's blog - a comment presumably approved:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-426863

Hold the phone!

I thought linking publicly available information was 'doxxing' and forbidden?

I think you've erred here Justin, because even if Ophelia comes to her senses and takes that stuff down we now have it up here and subject to our proud "no memory-hole" rule. Couldn't you have blurred it out or something?

Yeeeah. Let's take that doxxing down. Can you kill the image Justin?

[Metalogic42]

@BarnOwl:

I agree with AbsurdWalls. I think you should take the dog, at least temporarily. If you're concerned about keeping it long-term, take it anyway, but try to find a new home for it. And make it clear to your friends that pet roulette is fucked up.

[justinvacula]

From Ophelia's blog - a comment presumably approved:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-426863

[img]snip[img]

Hold the phone!

I thought linking publicly available information was 'doxxing' and forbidden?

I think you've erred here Justin, because even if Ophelia comes to her senses and takes that stuff down we now have it up here and subject to our proud "no memory-hole" rule. Couldn't you have blurred it out or something?

And now it has been replicated. :shock:

I hope that, whomever this guy Jerry is, he does whomever is Informed Citizen for libel.

I understand the concern. Perhaps it was a poor idea to put it up unedited/spread the alleged information. On the other hand, screencapping what happens there and posting it here shows the nastiness. The concern, though, probably outweighs the screencapping.

[TheMan]

Great video...gonna check out his other stuff....

[youtube]sGXTF6bs1IU[/youtube]

[mikelf]

But seriously, I don't get this. If Natalie is having employment issues, the fuckers at FTB have to know people either in Vancouver or who woule know people who could help her with that. Same thing with housing. This isn't some great movement thing. It's just "hey, I heard about a gig you might be good at, I talked to some folks, they said you should send them a resume" or even just "hey, I've been keeping an eye out for gigs you'd be good for".

It is the same as Ophelia complaining about some poor working class stiff on the bus having body odor and Jen's first thought, when she saw a homeless man flogging the dolphin, to complain that he was doing so without her consent. Their commitment to social justice is limited to what it can do for them. It has nothing to do with helping those icky people. It is just the means by which they can show all us proles how enlightened they are. Without leaving the comfort of their own home.

[Za-zen]

I'm still waiting for examples of the famed mysoginy that emanate from the pyt. That would be a good start. As surely that's their main chant, that pyters are "beyond contempt" and soew forth constant mysoginy. How about it Louis, what's your opinion on this? Do you concur with that narrative? Is there mysoginy here? If so demonstrate, and lets have it out.

I'll get a look at your examples tomorrow. Thanks in advance.

[16bitheretic]

The screencap of Ophelia's readers doxxing people could have probably been saved in full outside of public view, with a pixellated edit showcased on the boards here.

[KiwiInOz]

[spoiler]

From Ophelia's blog - a comment presumably approved:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-426863

[img]snip[img]

Hold the phone!

I thought linking publicly available information was 'doxxing' and forbidden?

I think you've erred here Justin, because even if Ophelia comes to her senses and takes that stuff down we now have it up here and subject to our proud "no memory-hole" rule. Couldn't you have blurred it out or something?

And now it has been replicated. :shock:

I hope that, whomever this guy Jerry is, he does whomever is Informed Citizen for libel.

[/spoiler]

I understand the concern. Perhaps it was a poor idea to put it up unedited/spread the alleged information. On the other hand, screencapping what happens there and posting it here shows the nastiness. The concern, though, probably outweighs the screencapping.

I don't actually have a concern about it being posted here. I think that the "Informed Citizen" is a despicable shit, and the context along with the libel of "right-to-rape advocate" needs to be highlighted.

[ERV]

http://i.imgur.com/k7zxFJG.jpg

Oh, yes, 'monitoring' people -- seeing what they publicly post on their public blogs and their public Twitter accounts -- is such a problem.

Anyway, there is a group of people sympathetic to Ophelia, I would presume, who happen to 'monitor' 'a small number of us.' Just considering posts about me, a search result of my name in Ophelia's blog shows about 18 posts. Ophelia has blogged about comments I have made on others' blogs, Facebook threads on my profile, Facebook threads on others' profiles, Tweets, articles people write and so much more. Ophelia has, at times, retweeted my tweets, too.

"Abbie" is on FtB 723 times. "Abby Smith" gets you another 36 twats. "ERV" 1280.

STOP OBSESSING OVER ME FTB!!! OR IM GONNA TATTLE TO NANNY BENSON!

[Altair]

@BarnOwl:

I agree with AbsurdWalls. I think you should take the dog, at least temporarily. If you're concerned about keeping it long-term, take it anyway, but try to find a new home for it. And make it clear to your friends that pet roulette is fucked up.

Agreed. I think taking the dog in is a good idea, and just wait and see if it actually takes away time from your other dogs. If this happens, you could try to find him a new home with people you know will treat it well, since by the way you describe these people, they might not care what happens to the dog.

lso, I don't think that rich people should always get away with dumping their problems on someone else, even if it is a friend

This is a good point, and I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the "problem" they want to dump being a sentient, living creature. They should learn they can't get away with that behavior, but in this case, the well-being of the dog is the foremost concern, and their learning a lesson is secondary.
Maybe having a serious conversation with them and telling them that they're obviously not ready to have another dog (or maybe have any dog, period) and that giving away dogs like they were objects is not nice would help them realize what they're doing is not right.

[Scented Nectar]

With "misogyny" being thrown around all over the place, and used to describe the most ridiculous things, a video popped out of me today on the subject.

What's REAL Misogyny?
[youtube]ffb7UlPMvTU[/youtube]

[Cunning Punt]

[spoiler]

Evening all,

Well I hope this is the right place to put this (i.e. the continuation of the last thread), I assume it is, if the mods tell me different, I have to take my beatings I guess.

I confess I have not read the six pages (so far) of this thread, but I've caught up with the last few of the last one, nice lot of responses. Oh wait, no. Most of them were horseshit. You can have your hate fest all you like, you can play "punch the pharyngulite" all you want, actually you're just giving me the impression that more of you are bitter muppets than I thought. Sorry, but that's the truth. Want me to pretend otherwise?

I haven't flounced, it was nearly 1 am, I went to bed. I didn't post (most of) today because I was BUSY, shock horror (and Tigers beat Toulouse, so I'm also drunk, hurrah!). If all the majority of you are looking for is an "enemy", a scapegoat on whom you can vent your anti-PZ etc wahwahs, great. Rather proves that you're no different from the people you criticise for doing similar things to you, doesn't it?

Oh and Badger, learn to read you simple minded fuck. I never asked for THE argument to Rule Them All, I asked for AN argument for ANYTHING. Wildly different. Do I need to explain that to you as well? Anything other than "waaaah PZ." If all you've got is "PeeZus is creating a cult of personality" and similar, fine. If that's all you are "disagreeing" about, great, that's sated my curiosity, I'm genuinely pleased to know that. Thanks. Not sarcasm, you've answered what I came to find out.

If you want to have a grown up discussion about things without treating me like I am somehow the All FtB Representative then wonderful, if not, then why criticise those people for doing exactly what you are doing? I'm not doing it. Deal with ME. The fact that some people "over there" do it and some people "over here" do it is the boring bit. There's a couple of you (and I've bookmarked a couple of posts) that have tried to make arguments and great, I'll get to those when I can. Apologies for not being able to dedicate my life to a timescale that suits you. That WAS sarcasm.

Toodle pip.

Louis

[/spoiler]

Thanks for dropping in, Louis. No sarcasm intended :text-happynewyear:

[Pitchguest]

WTF...

LSuoma, this nutcase is going to land you into an ocean of troubles.

decius, I finally open up a quote of yours and it's about insulting me? If you want to play the paranoia-minor card, how about you leave me alone? You look kind of creepy insulting a minor whenever you can. What's that about? I'm scared.

Did I mention that I've been in contact with agents before? They're very minor-shield happy... I can find her card somewhere... if not, I'll just walk down to the department. Policemen also run in the family.

I'm not kidding about having to be in the presence of FBI workers before. I'm tired of your shit, though, so it might be worth it to wail victim and actually embrace it. YOU'RE the only one in any danger of landing in trouble, using honey pot insults against me. That is so old.

I say Ewwood should be banned. She's admitted to being a minor, and in some post up above joked about wanting pictures of a 12 yr old. She been here too long, and is doing shit we should not let minors be doing here. I don't think minors should even be reading here. I notice her name is now green for 'in moderation'. That's a good start, I guess. Let's not forget her little police threat. We don't need any people set up by false accusers here. We also don't need any admitted minors requesting porn here. Ewwood is shutdown-bait. Get rid of her before she actually does the damage she threatens.

And also, I wouldn't fall for Ewwood's "I'm almost 18 real soon" shit either.

Piss on that, Scented. Eucliwood might be a minor and she might be many things, but she does not seem to be the type to do that shit. We're not the fainting couch brigade. Let's not start now.

[rayshul]

[spoiler]

From Ophelia's blog - a comment presumably approved:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-426863

[img]snip[img]

Hold the phone!

I thought linking publicly available information was 'doxxing' and forbidden?

I think you've erred here Justin, because even if Ophelia comes to her senses and takes that stuff down we now have it up here and subject to our proud "no memory-hole" rule. Couldn't you have blurred it out or something?

And now it has been replicated. :shock:

I hope that, whomever this guy Jerry is, he does whomever is Informed Citizen for libel.

[/spoiler]

I understand the concern. Perhaps it was a poor idea to put it up unedited/spread the alleged information. On the other hand, screencapping what happens there and posting it here shows the nastiness. The concern, though, probably outweighs the screencapping.

I don't actually have a concern about it being posted here. I think that the "Informed Citizen" is a despicable shit, and the context along with the libel of "right-to-rape advocate" needs to be highlighted.

My concern is that reposting it has the potential to hurt the *victim* because it advertises the details of the doxxing. It would be easy to smudge out the details and still demonstrate that Informed Citizen pulled an incredibly shitty dox.

Justin if you choose to, you can put forward a removal request here, and then reupload a blanked out version and/or a private, detailed version.

[Trophy]

http://i.imgur.com/k7zxFJG.jpg

Yes dear Ophelia. They are called "readers". Blogs have them.

[ERV]

/(fill-in-the-blankGate)-unrelated

This has nothing to do with deep rifts or drama in the A/S community, but there are a number of dog- and/or cat-lovers in the 'Pit, so I'm going to request advice and opinions on a situation that's really upsetting me.

My friends adopted a shelter puppy about a year ago, as their beloved purebred dog is getting quite elderly. The puppy is now a beautiful adult dog, sweet-natured and smart, quite energetic and still mischievous about chewing up various things in the yard. Pretty typical for a hound breed at age one year or so. Problem is, the husband of the couple hates the dog. Hates her. Why? "She's needy and wants human attention. She chews on things. She has too much energy." His biggest problem with the dog is that "she's not as well-behaved and independent" as is their elderly dog.

So they want to get rid of the dog. This would not be the first shelter dog that they've dumped on someone else because "it's not like our old dog." The first one was dumped on their ranch caretaker. This one they'd like to dump on me. If push came to shove, I could take her, if money and space were the only considerations. But I have two shelter dogs already, and my old Labbie who passed away last year had been abandoned at their ranch. I've started taking the hound running or walking around the ranch every weekend, and she lerrrvvvsss me for the attention. But I live on a tenth of an acre in the suburbs, and that's a big change of doggie lifestyle from a 100+ acre ranch. Plus I'm worried that, with limited time, I'd have to short my little cutie-dogs on attention and training/walk time. Also, I don't think that rich people should always get away with dumping their problems on someone else, even if it is a friend.

What thinks the 'Pit?

You've got two problems really. One is what to do about the dog, and the other is what to do about your friends. Regarding the dog, I think you should take it and see how it works out. If it turns out well then that's dandy. If you feel like it's not working then you'll just have to do whatever your friends would do if you couldn't take him. Regarding your friends, I think you need to communicate to them that they need to stop doing this. That they can't capriciously mess around a dogs need for a stable life like that. Maybe they don't really want another dog? Maybe they should spend more time getting to know them before they take them home.

My two cents.

That, highlighted above.

I would suggest that you suggest they adopt an adult dog-- There are lots of older dogs that have a hard time finding homes because 'everyone wants a puppy', but the shelter would be able to tell them in about 0.5 seconds which dogs are needy, and which ones are calm/mellow/just want to plop their butts in the sun for a nap.

If they INSIST they want a puppy, suggest they go to a psychiatrist because theyre crazy. They obviously dont want a puppy.

[Cunning Punt]

For what it's worth, I like Eucliwood. She's cool in my book. A bit too exasperated at times, but she's not a baboon. The moderation is bull.

Somedumbguy, don't be daft. No one gets banned.

I have Eucliwood on ignore and that works for me. I'm a bit worried that she might do some stuff that blows back on the 'pit but I will let more established members worry about that.

I had her on ignore but that anteater remark won me back.

[16bitheretic]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/nb9eo.jpg

[Lurkion]

From Ophelia's blog - a comment presumably approved:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-426863

[iimg]redacted[/iimg]

Hold the phone!

I thought linking publicly available information was 'doxxing' and forbidden?

This is outrageous. This is after his apology.
These people are animals.

[welch]

http://i.imgur.com/k7zxFJG.jpg

Yes dear Ophelia. They are called "readers". Blogs have them.

I hope no one ever tells her about RSS/Atom. She'd plotz.

[decius]

/(fill-in-the-blankGate)-unrelated

This has nothing to do with deep rifts or drama in the A/S community, but there are a number of dog- and/or cat-lovers in the 'Pit, so I'm going to request advice and opinions on a situation that's really upsetting me.

My friends adopted a shelter puppy about a year ago, as their beloved purebred dog is getting quite elderly. The puppy is now a beautiful adult dog, sweet-natured and smart, quite energetic and still mischievous about chewing up various things in the yard. Pretty typical for a hound breed at age one year or so. Problem is, the husband of the couple hates the dog. Hates her. Why? "She's needy and wants human attention. She chews on things. She has too much energy." His biggest problem with the dog is that "she's not as well-behaved and independent" as is their elderly dog.

So they want to get rid of the dog. This would not be the first shelter dog that they've dumped on someone else because "it's not like our old dog." The first one was dumped on their ranch caretaker. This one they'd like to dump on me. If push came to shove, I could take her, if money and space were the only considerations. But I have two shelter dogs already, and my old Labbie who passed away last year had been abandoned at their ranch. I've started taking the hound running or walking around the ranch every weekend, and she lerrrvvvsss me for the attention. But I live on a tenth of an acre in the suburbs, and that's a big change of doggie lifestyle from a 100+ acre ranch. Plus I'm worried that, with limited time, I'd have to short my little cutie-dogs on attention and training/walk time. Also, I don't think that rich people should always get away with dumping their problems on someone else, even if it is a friend.

What thinks the 'Pit?

You're being emotionally manipulated by a couple of borderline sociopaths. No one in their right mind would decide after one year that their adopted rescue isn't what they really wanted. Even if they came to realise it that late, compassion and affection would have taken over from disgust.
Also, given the complete picture, It seems unlikely that the old Labbie had been abandoned at their ranch. More likely, it is part of the pattern. They picked it up and he ended up displeasing their royal taste in canine matters.

As painful as it is, you should not allow this manipulation to occur. The best thing you could do is to make sure that these cunts are blacklisted in all dog shelters in the area.

However, I would not take my own advice and wait for Sacha's instead.

[Gumby]

From Ophelia's blog - a comment presumably approved:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-426863

Hold the phone!

I thought linking publicly available information was 'doxxing' and forbidden?

*facepalm*

Not to be rude, Justin, but didn't you learn anything from last time?

It doesn't matter if they do it or not. Just because it got published doesn't mean Ophelia won't delete it when she gets back from her cobweb-cleaning appointment.

It's generally agreed here that this sort of shit is at best unnecessary and at worst unethical (available freely by Google search or not). And how do you know they got the right Jerry Conlon?

Think, man. Think.

[Lurkion]

[spoiler]

http://i.imgur.com/KuKDvfs.jpg

Oh fuck me, somebody give this a dramatic reading please. Something with a bit of Beethoven in the background.

Guys. I'm going to flog this again.

It's my dramatic reading of the FtB comment...

[/spoiler]

Decent job. Good pathos towards the end and I liked the choice of music for the soundtrack. The video itself is a bit rough on the eyes with the hard cycling, but that's a minor nit overall.

hahaha yeah. I didn't watch the video first. I just whacked the photo in and uploaded it. I assumed iMovie wouldn't do weird things without being told. I was wrong.

[Zenspace]

She is just going for a repeat of her first accidental performance that garnered her a bunch of new followers due to the drama. I think Dawkins is smart enough not to engage with her again.

I doubt he would, but it is polarizing.

PS: Welcome to the Pyt! You've already been told to fuck off. Also, did I see a reference to a blog in an earlier post?

I'm guessing 'fuck off' is a tradition here?

As for my blog, I don't write about atheism on it, it would be of little interest to you. But I do use twitter to take the piss, and I am known to search out non-religious forums where religious loonies are still the majority.

I agree it is polarizing, but I suspect it will hurt RW more in the long run. People just get tired of that crap after a while.

I'm a fairly new member of the pyt myself, just about to hit my one month anniversary. I was formerly a Pharyngula fan and spent much time over there, until I sensed the place starting to deteriorate intellectually. Something was starting to rot at the center and I sensed it, although I didn't sort what it was at the time. I jumped just before they opened the FtB forum. Visited a few times early on and decided they were generally going downhill and accelerating. I generally disengaged from the community for about a year and a half after that.

Yes, the 'fuck off' seems a sort of official welcome. I suspect the idea is that if you don't instantly flounce it means you have some backbone and actually stand a chance of fitting in here. I describe the pyt as a borderline anarchy populated by an impressively diverse group of intelligent and creative people who happen to have a particular penchant for a good brawl. I'll admit it took a bit of an adjustment for me to see what gets bandied about here so casually on a daily basis. It reminds me of a rough and tumble wharf-rat pub that Goerge Carlin would have liked to hang out in. I've learned more about the Ftb/Skepchik/A+ mess in one month here than I did in a year on my own. It really is an amazing resource in this context.

I have a blog as well, but like yours it has nothing to do with atheism or skepticism. I can't give any info on it without doxxing myself, though. All this is kind of new territory for me, so I tread carefully. But so far I really like it here.

[windy]

My friends adopted a shelter puppy about a year ago, as their beloved purebred dog is getting quite elderly. The puppy is now a beautiful adult dog, sweet-natured and smart, quite energetic and still mischievous about chewing up various things in the yard. Pretty typical for a hound breed at age one year or so. Problem is, the husband of the couple hates the dog. Hates her. Why? "She's needy and wants human attention. She chews on things. She has too much energy." His biggest problem with the dog is that "she's not as well-behaved and independent" as is their elderly dog.

That's still a very young dog, is he aware that she is likely to calm down a bit with age? Are they interested in training the dog at all?

[AbsurdWalls]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/nb9eo.jpg

Is lsuoma about, can we get this version stuck in where people have already reposted the image?

[Lsuoma]

In other news, I hear atheists are trying to obtain uranium from Niger... and Thunderf00t is busying himself making centrifuges.

You silly bint! Only people on the back-channel were supposed to talk about that, now EVERYONE knows!