another lurker wrote:welch wrote:another lurker wrote:The word 'cunt' used to scare me. Quite a bit in fact. The sheer power of it, the contempt. I first heard of the word when I was 15, and it filled me with dread. That was one insult I could never use.
Years later, I wound up on IRC and was sharing a chat channel with a feminist Croatian girl. This girl would not take shit from anyone. She also used 'cunt' all the time. Sometimes she would just type 'cunt', for no apparent reason. She robbed the word of its power. And I thank her for that. "Cunt" was no longer a word that could shut me up, and make me feel 'bad'.
And now, many years later, I visit FTB and suddenly 'cunt' has all the power it once had when I was 15. Power that the word does not deserve. Rather than forcing people to alter their language - especially if they still, inwardly, hold misogynist beliefs - doesn't it make more sense for women to take back the word, and rob if of any dreadful, 'sexist' meaning?
I guess what I am trying to say is, if people are using 'so-called' woman-hating words around me, or just plain vulgarity, would it not be wise to say 'hey, you cannot offend me, you do not have that power over me' than to attempt to get them to *insincerely* 'clean up' their language when around me?
Just my two cents, that's all!
If someone can completely alter your mental and emotional state by the mere utterance of a word, they own you.
Maybe, and this is crazy, but maybe one should be more discriminating in who one gives such control to.
Well, I was being a tad hyperbolic with the FTB example. But the truth is, I really really wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. They are 'smarter' and 'more learned' than me, after all. Right? So I stopped using 'bitch' and 'cunt' - mostly.
Most of all though, the BIGGEST effect it had on me was that I policed my behaviour on FTB forums and then said whatever the fuck else I wanted to elsewhere. Which just proves the point that if you are going to police language, you will not actually effect any *real* change - you will just force people to put on an insincere act to please you (which is a point that has been made here before, many times, alerady.)
The thing is, I have spent years talking like a sailor. And I was willing to listen to FTB, and give their ideas a chance. I wanted to learn from them, to re-examine all of my preconceived notions about feminism. They had a willing ally, and they tone-policed me outta there! So now I am here, re-examining everything all over again:P
Carlin had a great saying about this, the point of which people like PeeZus and the rest miss:
"There is nothing wrong with the word "nigger"
in and of itself. It's the racist asshole using it you should worry about"
When the video of Watson's dick move against Stef McGraw came out, PeeZus literally said that Watson had been perfectly respectful because
she had not used bad language, nor raised her voice, so there was no harm. (shit like that is why I think Louis is a fundamentally dishonest little fuckstick, with being the fastest sperm his only genuine achievement to date)
Let me show you a small bit of legalese:
Any male person who, in public or private, commits, or is a party to the commission of, or procures, or attempts to procure the commission by any male person of, any act of gross indecency with an other male person, shall be guilty of a misdemeanour, and being convicted thereof, shall be liable at the discretion of the Court to be imprisoned for any term not exceeding two years, with or without hard labour.
Very polite in tone, and language. That is the paragraph used to convict Alan Turing, forcing him to be chemically castrated, worsening his depression, and likely causing his suicide.
Yet, if we apply the standards PeeZus uses to defend Watson, because the language is neither profane, nor "yelling",
it, and the people who wrote that law were harmless.
Another one:
Under suitable direction, the Jews should be brought to the East in the course of the Final Solution, for use as labour. In large labour gangs, with the sexes separated, the Jews capable of work will be transported to those areas and set to road-building, in the course of which, without doubt, a large part of them ("ein Großteil") will fall away through natural losses. The surviving remnant, surely those with the greatest powers of resistance, will be given special treatment, since, if freed, they would constitute the germinal cell for the re-creation of Jewry.
That's an excerpt from Reinhard Heydrich's speech at the Wannsee Conference in 1942. The holocaust started there, with those words. If there's a more obscene bit of writing, I'd be almost afraid to read it, yet, by the standards PeeZus used to defend Watson,
it, and the people behind it were harmless.
That is the real danger of obsessing about words. They are so paranoid about "cunt" and "bitch" and all the rest that they are terribly opened to being manipulated by people who are really quite obscene, but use the proper language and bow at the right times.
Which is honestly more misogynistic, me calling watson a cunt for her dick move, or Laden trying to convince everyone that women, as a gender, are fundamentally helpless, and cannot, can. not. function without all teh menz protecting their poor helpless selves at all times? I said something rude about one person, Laden is not implying, he is directly saying that women are completely unable to fend for themselves unless men are there to protect and defend them.
HOW THE FUCK IS MY STATMENT MISOGYNISTIC AND HIS SOME FUCKING BASTION OF FEMINISM AND EMPOWERMENT? HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT WORK, BECAUSE I REALLY WANT SOMEONE TO EXPLAIN IT TO ME IN A WAY THAT ISN'T COMPLETE BULLSHIT.
Over and over, PeeZus, Laden, thimbledick and all the rest tell women "no, no, it's not your fault. You're not capable of handling this. You just stay there, and let us men handle the evil world, and well tell you when it's safe", and the worst part, the fucking
really vile worst part about it is that Ophelia and Jen and Watson and all the rest line up to fucking
thank them for being so fucking enlightened.
Yet, it's people like me, who have spent no small amount of time teaching women that they are *not* helpless, not emotionally, mentally, or physically, that they not only can handle the world, but they *should* handle the world as equals, that they don't need me or anyone else to defend them, because they are all competent fucking adults, able to defend themselves...
we are the bad people.
because we said "cunt".
There are a lot of misogynists in the atheist/skeptic movement. The problem is, just like all the right-wingers who get busted sucking strange cock after railing against "teh gai", the true misogynists are the ones painting themselves as the white knights.
