There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8821

Post by rayshul » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:10 pm

how far back are you going when christianity is declining? like two hundred years? fucking shit

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8822

Post by MarcusAu » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:14 pm

rayshul wrote: how far back are you going when christianity is declining? like two hundred years? fucking shit
I figure they went wrong went they decided to suppress the gnostics.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8823

Post by rayshul » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:17 pm

MarcusAu wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:24 pm
rayshul wrote: Maybe not keeping Britain white, but keeping it Christian seems like it's okay. The whole atheist movement was deeply misguided in the idea that people could be good without god. It's clear that in the absence of god they head for communism and other psycho shit. Maybe what we're seeing here isn't the rise of social justice warriors but the results of the swelling vacuum of atheism. Christianity gave people culture, community, dogma and a sense of belonging that people are now getting from their weird SJW cults and their desperate search for another culture that makes them seem less hollow on the inside.

I don't know. How much have we contributed to the downfall of society?
I don't know either.

But repeating the old mantra 'Corelation is Not Causation' to myself keeps my levels of doubt at approximately the right levels (at least until a study comes out). Atheists ('New' or otherwise) do not tend to write self-help books or offer guides as to how to live your life - and I'm happy enough that they don't. Christianity has been in decline since at least the Enlightenment - and the seeds of it's own destruction were apparent before that if the Reformation was anything to go by. Maybe it works for communities at a smaller scale - but it becomes really hard not to see them as political institutions - for example the catholic church having it's own bank.

If religion is a necessity for stability - then it the state has a vested interest in encouraging it. Which, CoE nothwithstanding, is something I have very little faith in.
.

It's the sense of community and shared belief that matters. Maybe this is anecdotal but I find Christians the most resistent to the SJW shit.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8824

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:26 pm

Shatterface wrote: I'm happy defending my values. My values aren't those of a bunch of racist cunts who want to keep Britain white and Christian.

As to my 'impertinence' you've been shoving your trad values down our throats for months now so it's only fair to ask if you apply them to yourself - which is exactly what we demand of others who do similar, like Peezus or Christian fundies.

Your trad values are pretty narrow and many of us here would fall outside them, including myself, or we have friends and family who don't choose to live according to tradition.
Well you have the alt-lite pagan option to fall back on. :D

But good luck with your values. Whatever they are.

Re relevance. This topic has featured in the news lately and forms an intersection with terrorism, culture, immigration, liberalism, Trump, Euro vs USA social variations, pepe, antifa, hot Nazi chicks, etc etc etc. It would be good if FtB rolled in the lolz, but they ain’t performing.

It’s important, I assume you would agree, that applied liberalism has solutions for Cologne, Luton, material SJW fuckery and (say) a plan for Australia’s integration, multi cultural replacement policies. I expected it might. I have seen nothing that would support this initial confidence. Instead we have May, Merkel, Trudeau and Scott Morrison. Plus the measurable decline of the UK, Germany, Sweden et al. Moreover nothing from this group has risen to the challenge. Kirbs chilling pipes analogy and the scream of “racist motherfucker” is reminiscent of a SJW crying “patriarchy”.

Just a word of clarification. “Trad” is a new term that simply describes base consensus values that define(d) and helped structure western society. The entryism of social-architect leftists in unwitting alliance with the individualist-liberal has largely destroyed this contract. Leaving us a tad weak relative to more assertive strains. We are like a company without business rifles or policy.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8825

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:40 pm

rayshul wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: Christianity declining is the reason why Europe (and the non-fundamentalist parts of the US) are better in terms of human rights than the "Muslim world".
what lol
are you serious?!?!?
Yes.

When Christianity was at its strongest culturally and socially it promoted and enforced the same kind of traditional, agricultural society where social mobility, individual rights, dissent, criticism were stifled by a vision of "harmonious" society where everyone had "their place". Just like in Islam.

The weakening of Christianity as a single moral, social, cultural authority started from the Reformation. The squabbling protestant sects inhibited each other. The US didn't have a state religion BECAUSE there were many squabbling and different sects.

Freedom of speech is such an important American value, and not so important in, say, Argentina or Peru, BECAUSE of the weakness and disharmony between different sects of Christianity in the US, while the Catholic Church was the only source of education and morals in Latin America.

Similarly the presence of dissenters, "heretics", and original thinkers in the UK, with no central Inquisition to stamp them out, was what allowed the Enlightenment to develop there and not in, say, Spain.

The resurgence of a common "Christian" identity in the US has been a challenge to modernity. Luckily, thanks to the divisions of American society, the theocratic Christian project never had much chances of success.

Division, dissent, squabbles are good for preserving freedom, encouraging doubts, opening the marketplace of ideas. Unity and conformity in the long run lead to authoritarian curtailing of freedom.

Islam has a BIG issue with the monopoly of education, morals and thought being in the hands of religious leaders. Islamic intimidation of doubters and "heretics", islamic censorship, the islamic myth of unity (the "Ummah") are what makes islam so bad.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8826

Post by MarcusAu » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:48 pm

Brive1987 wrote: ...
Just a word of clarification. “Trad” is a new term that simply describes base consensus values that define(d) and helped structure western society. The entryism of social-architect leftists in unwitting alliance with the individualist-liberal has largely destroyed this contract. Leaving us a tad weak relative to more assertive strains. We are like a company without business rifles or policy.
Your words of clarification highlight the need for more of the same.

I had thought the basis of 'Western Civilisaton' was that of the Romans and the Greeks. And they got up to all sorts of things that would conflict with modern values.

"Trad" has also been adopted by white-ethnostaters (if not supremicists) on the alt-right - so it's probably important to define what the base consensus values are - especially if you want to be seen as distinct from those groups. Or if you are looking for leftists and liberals to join you.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8827

Post by Easy J » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:52 pm

rayshul wrote: Maybe not keeping Britain white, but keeping it Christian seems like it's okay. The whole atheist movement was deeply misguided in the idea that people could be good without god. It's clear that in the absence of god they head for communism and other psycho shit. Maybe what we're seeing here isn't the rise of social justice warriors but the results of the swelling vacuum of atheism. Christianity gave people culture, community, dogma and a sense of belonging that people are now getting from their weird SJW cults and their desperate search for another culture that makes them seem less hollow on the inside.

I don't know. How much have we contributed to the downfall of society?
I think the atheist movement is more a symptom of Christianity's decline than a contributing cause. It's been fracturing, watering itself down, & compromising on it's positions for centuries in attempts to stay relevant. The modern world produces minds that have an increasingly hard time believing the things required for traditional religions to properly work in their lives. And Christianity, by & large, anchored itself to a lot of positions that were on the losing side of history. So out goes the baby with the bathwater. We still have those same psychological itches to scratch, so we're gonna stay busy finding or inventing causes & constructs while the marketplace that caters to those needs adapts & responds to our feedback. It sucks.

But I find the idea that we need to believe in objectively untrue things in order to do good & preserve our mental health depressing. It's more of a personal reaction, & maybe the impulse to remake a bit of the world in my own image. Maybe there's a bit of this behind the entire atheist enterprise. The facts of the universe we live in don't answer to our psychological needs, so maybe some philosophical or poetic twist on these realities is in order. Its the outright denial of them that I find so childish & distasteful. I think our values & expectations should adjust themselves to the world, rather than the reverse, as religion attempts to do. I was really hoping we could do better, but I'm feeling less idealistic about this lately.(^^impulsive, caffeinated mini-rant)

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8828

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:05 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
I would fight against that. I'm not going to throw my values out to preserve some vague notion of "my culture." Darwinism. If my culture can't survive by legal, ethical means, it doesn't deserve to survive.
The law is fluid. And ethics are historically subordinated to need. Just ask the Allied planners behind strategic bombing and the A Bomb in WWII. Or those demoting the right of whites girls to not get raped in favour of political correctness.

I also suspect your “vague culture” would become less vague when it has been replaced with someone else’s. If you are lucky a later day Lauren Southern may document it for posterity. :mrgreen:

I’m curious though why you immediately equate any response to genocide. It could be mistaken for well poisoning. The equivalent of instinctively crying “Nazi”.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8829

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:05 am

Similarly the problem with the SocJus is its monopoly of the academic discourse. "Diversity programs" in universities, campus leaders unwilling to curb the violence and heckling, the smearing of anyone who dissents as a fan of The Patriarchy are the sources of SocJus (relative) strength. Cut the programs, keep people accountable, and the SocJus ideology will vanish.

What's happening, though, is that the alt-right reaction is just as dogmatic and intolerant of criticism as the SocJus. Question the assumption of the equivalence of ethnicity and culture, or of static nature of cultures, and you're a "SJW",' the Enemy. Provide evidence of deep cultural changes in a relatively short time and they're dismissed as "fadism" (a convenient way to hand wave away things that aren't explained by the narrative) There's only a binary choice between "tradition" and the cultural relativism of the SocJus.

If you're not on board with the program you're either "wrongborn", a traitor, or an apathetic, valueless coward.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8830

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:23 am

MarcusAu wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: ...
Just a word of clarification. “Trad” is a new term that simply describes base consensus values that define(d) and helped structure western society. The entryism of social-architect leftists in unwitting alliance with the individualist-liberal has largely destroyed this contract. Leaving us a tad weak relative to more assertive strains. We are like a company without business rifles or policy.
Your words of clarification highlight the need for more of the same.

I had thought the basis of 'Western Civilisaton' was that of the Romans and the Greeks. And they got up to all sorts of things that would conflict with modern values.

"Trad" has also been adopted by white-ethnostaters (if not supremicists) on the alt-right - so it's probably important to define what the base consensus values are - especially if you want to be seen as distinct from those groups. Or if you are looking for leftists and liberals to join you.
Leftists and a breed of liberals appear to enjoy their self flagellation.

If I could reverse the nihilistic rush, I’d advocate a shared moral scaffold providing house rules which deal with interpersonal contracts. Cultural Christianity would do - of the cucumber rather than the American Protestant variety. The celebration of traditional marriage as a key social unit. Measures that promote positive child rearing, including an engaged primary parent. The inculcation of personal responsibility and civic virtue. Reward and recognition for industriousness. Respect for the past and a defined plan or vision for the future. You know. Shit that takes the obsessive “I” out of society’s “team”.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8831

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:36 am

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
I would fight against that. I'm not going to throw my values out to preserve some vague notion of "my culture." Darwinism. If my culture can't survive by legal, ethical means, it doesn't deserve to survive.
The law is fluid. And ethics are historically subordinated to need. Just ask the Allied planners behind strategic bombing and the A Bomb in WWII. Or those demoting the right of whites girls to not get raped in favour of political correctness.

I also suspect your “vague culture” would become less vague when it has been replaced with someone else’s. If you are lucky a later day Lauren Southern may document it for posterity. :mrgreen:

I’m curious though why you immediately equate any response to genocide. It could be mistaken for well poisoning. The equivalent of instinctively crying “Nazi”.
I don't think you are promoting genocide.

I think, however, that you are going down the path that leads to "population transfers", to borrow a term often used by another person who frequently posts here.

By equating culture with ethnicity and advocating (albeit vaguely) the suspension of liberal democratic standards, you seem to be justifying the forcible removal of people who haven't violated the laws of your country from your country because of their ethnic origin.

Of course I could be wrong. But the issue here is that your reaction to a problem of cultural integration isn't to establish clear rules, to criticize and demand changes to harmful sets of ideas, but to promote the view that there is or was a largely homogenous ethno-cultural standard and that the problem is the arrival of a largely homogenous alien "culture-ethnicity", where both standards are incompatible and unable to change.

This is an argument used to justify the "population transfers".

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8832

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:41 am

Kirbmarc wrote: Similarly the problem with the SocJus is its monopoly of the academic discourse. "Diversity programs" in universities, campus leaders unwilling to curb the violence and heckling, the smearing of anyone who dissents as a fan of The Patriarchy are the sources of SocJus (relative) strength. Cut the programs, keep people accountable, and the SocJus ideology will vanish.

What's happening, though, is that the alt-right reaction is just as dogmatic and intolerant of criticism as the SocJus. Question the assumption of the equivalence of ethnicity and culture, or of static nature of cultures, and you're a "SJW",' the Enemy. Provide evidence of deep cultural changes in a relatively short time and they're dismissed as "fadism" (a convenient way to hand wave away things that aren't explained by the narrative) There's only a binary choice between "tradition" and the cultural relativism of the SocJus.

If you're not on board with the program you're either "wrongborn", a traitor, or an apathetic, valueless coward.
Bwhahahah. I was simply providing Shatterface with a menu of options, including a spectrum of value to help articulate his support for current trends. I got squat.

I will have to inform my local CofE that they are agents of the devil, seeking a new agrarian Year Zero.

I’m seeking pragmatic liberal solutions from you and a vision for the West in the face of obvious decline. What was that plan for homogeneous values in the face of the third world (given you have neck shot ethnic culture as evil)? Muh values classes wasn’t it?

As always you seek to define a simple horseshoe so you can flop in the centre without enacting sweat.

:lol: :lol:

But mate. Really. You have more hyperbole coming off your keyboard than crazy Tara.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8833

Post by SM1957 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:52 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
I would fight against that. I'm not going to throw my values out to preserve some vague notion of "my culture." Darwinism. If my culture can't survive by legal, ethical means, it doesn't deserve to survive.
The law is fluid. And ethics are historically subordinated to need. Just ask the Allied planners behind strategic bombing and the A Bomb in WWII. Or those demoting the right of whites girls to not get raped in favour of political correctness.

I also suspect your “vague culture” would become less vague when it has been replaced with someone else’s. If you are lucky a later day Lauren Southern may document it for posterity. :mrgreen:

I’m curious though why you immediately equate any response to genocide. It could be mistaken for well poisoning. The equivalent of instinctively crying “Nazi”.
I don't think you are promoting genocide.

I think, however, that you are going down the path that leads to "population transfers", to borrow a term often used by another person who frequently posts here.

By equating culture with ethnicity and advocating (albeit vaguely) the suspension of liberal democratic standards, you seem to be justifying the forcible removal of people who haven't violated the laws of your country from your country because of their ethnic origin.

Of course I could be wrong. But the issue here is that your reaction to a problem of cultural integration isn't to establish clear rules, to criticize and demand changes to harmful sets of ideas, but to promote the view that there is or was a largely homogenous ethno-cultural standard and that the problem is the arrival of a largely homogenous alien "culture-ethnicity", where both standards are incompatible and unable to change.

This is an argument used to justify the "population transfers".
Have illegal immigrants violated the laws of our country? If so, should they be deported?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8834

Post by SM1957 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:54 am

Kirbmarc wrote: Of course I could be wrong. But the issue here is that your reaction to a problem of cultural integration isn't to establish clear rules, to criticize and demand changes to harmful sets of ideas, but to promote the view that there is or was a largely homogenous ethno-cultural standard and that the problem is the arrival of a largely homogenous alien "culture-ethnicity", where both standards are incompatible and unable to change.

This is an argument used to justify the "population transfers".
in Britain, if you criticise and demand changes to harmful sets of ideas, you are quite likely to have your Twitter account deleted, and possibly be accused of hate crimes.

You will certainly be called a racist xenophobe.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8835

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:57 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: Similarly the problem with the SocJus is its monopoly of the academic discourse. "Diversity programs" in universities, campus leaders unwilling to curb the violence and heckling, the smearing of anyone who dissents as a fan of The Patriarchy are the sources of SocJus (relative) strength. Cut the programs, keep people accountable, and the SocJus ideology will vanish.

What's happening, though, is that the alt-right reaction is just as dogmatic and intolerant of criticism as the SocJus. Question the assumption of the equivalence of ethnicity and culture, or of static nature of cultures, and you're a "SJW",' the Enemy. Provide evidence of deep cultural changes in a relatively short time and they're dismissed as "fadism" (a convenient way to hand wave away things that aren't explained by the narrative) There's only a binary choice between "tradition" and the cultural relativism of the SocJus.

If you're not on board with the program you're either "wrongborn", a traitor, or an apathetic, valueless coward.
Bwhahahah. I was simply providing Shatterface with a menu of options, including a spectrum of value to help articulate his support for current trends. I got squat.

I will have to inform my local CofE that they are agents of the devil, seeking a new agrarian Year Zero.

I’m seeking pragmatic liberal solutions from you and a vision for the West in the face of obvious decline. What was that plan for homogeneous values in the face of the third world (given you have neck shot ethnic culture as evil)? Muh values classes wasn’t it?

As always you seek to define a simple horseshoe so you can flop in the centre without enacting sweat.

:lol: :lol:

But mate. Really. You have more hyperbole coming off your keyboard than crazy Tara.
You deliberately offered a false dicothomy between apathy and "wrongborn" (a term YOU introduced to the discourse) for anyone who criticizes your ethno-nationalistic ideas.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8836

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:00 am

Also I have exposed LOTS of lists of recommendations on how to counter conservative and reactionary ideas in Muslim communities. So many times, indeed, that people complained I was repeating myself

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8837

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:03 am

Kirb, I assume you wouldn’t quibble over the use of “population transfers” in the context of bipartisan enforced massive immigration flows? Especially when polls almost always show old stock resistance to these policies ....

Or does the term lack nuance?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8838

Post by Keating » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:08 am

I don’t think we’d be here without Christianity. What Christianity contains that Islam does not is the idea that the Mind of God is knowable. That’s where science, as we understand it, is birthed from. The early naturalists where interested in getting a better understanding of God, and studying His creation was one way to achieve that.

Islam short circuits that desire by also declaring itself to also be the last word. So, yes, Christianity does contain the seed of its own destruction in it. Add to that the two ultimate European wars and the collapse of Christianity there makes sense.

The one thing I still don’t get is why that feeling of desolation spread to the entire anglosphere. The colonies should have been more immune to that.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8839

Post by SM1957 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:09 am

Brive1987 wrote: Kirb, I assume you wouldn’t quibble over the use of “population transfers” in the context of bipartisan enforced massive immigration flows? Especially when polls almost always show old stock resistance to these policies ....

Or does the term lack nuance?
Population transfer was explicit government policy

The Prime Minister of Australia, Paul Keating,was really happy to see population transfers take place so that he could change the culture of Australia to make it more Asian and change the ethnic composition

'Many things have changed and will change in Australia – our ethnic composition and, with it, our culture...'

http://www.keating.org.au/persistent/ca ... ndasia.pdf

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8840

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:12 am

Brive1987 wrote: Kirb, I assume you wouldn’t quibble over the use of “population transfers” in the context of bipartisan enforced massive immigration flows? Especially when polls almost always show old stock resistance to these policies ....

Or does the term lack nuance?


There's a lot of difference between letting in people who want to come (and that you should screen to see who can adapt and thrive) and kicking out people who don't want to leave (especially if it's just on the basis of who they are, not what they've done).

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8841

Post by MarcusAu » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:26 am

Keating wrote: I don’t think we’d be here without Christianity. What Christianity contains that Islam does not is the idea that the Mind of God is knowable. That’s where science, as we understand it, is birthed from. The early naturalists where interested in getting a better understanding of God, and studying His creation was one way to achieve that.

Islam short circuits that desire by also declaring itself to also be the last word. So, yes, Christianity does contain the seed of its own destruction in it. Add to that the two ultimate European wars and the collapse of Christianity there makes sense.

The one thing I still don’t get is why that feeling of desolation spread to the entire anglosphere. The colonies should have been more immune to that.
And we most likely wouldn't be here without the Greeks and the Romans or Ghengis Khan or the ancient Babylonians or the Jews either. Give them their due or don't - most of them are dead so won't care anyway.

I've heard the phase 'God works mysterious ways' more than the 'The mind of god is knowable' - but you know the devil can quote scripture for his own ends - so you can take whatever meaning you like from that. It's interesting in an historical sense - like alchemy being a forerunner to chemistry and astrology to astronomy.

Maybe things have been too good for a while - so 'affluenza' becomes widespread.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8842

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:44 am

Also scientific and mathematical reasearch flourished in the time of independent/autonomous sultanates/caliphates where local Christian and Jewish thinkers had a degree of freedom.

It stagnated when a big, sprawling, reactionary empire came to power after the cultural shock of Mongol conquest.

Meanwhile when Christian Europe was under a strong Imperial/Papal power European culture stagnated, while the Reinassance and later the Scientific Revolution came in a time of small duchies, maritime republics, self-governing cities, etc. Coincidence?

So maybe it wasn't an intrinsic property of Christianity or Islam to stifle or encourage scientific discourse (and political dissent).

Maybe it was a matter of cultural monopoly vs cultural competition.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8843

Post by AndrewV69 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:07 am

As seen on Twatter

Paula Wright thread on female intrasexual competition

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8844

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:18 am

Kirbmarc wrote: Also scientific and mathematical reasearch flourished in the time of independent/autonomous sultanates/caliphates where local Christian and Jewish thinkers had a degree of freedom.

It stagnated when a big, sprawling, reactionary empire came to power after the cultural shock of Mongol conquest.

Meanwhile when Christian Europe was under a strong Imperial/Papal power European culture stagnated, while the Reinassance and later the Scientific Revolution came in a time of small duchies, maritime republics, self-governing cities, etc. Coincidence?

So maybe it wasn't an intrinsic property of Christianity or Islam to stifle or encourage scientific discourse (and political dissent).

Maybe it was a matter of cultural monopoly vs cultural competition.
That’s a superficially good argument against theocracy. You should keep it handy in case anyone argues for one.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8845

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:37 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Kirb, I assume you wouldn’t quibble over the use of “population transfers” in the context of bipartisan enforced massive immigration flows? Especially when polls almost always show old stock resistance to these policies ....

Or does the term lack nuance?


There's a lot of difference between letting in people who want to come (and that you should screen to see who can adapt and thrive) and kicking out people who don't want to leave (especially if it's just on the basis of who they are, not what they've done).
How about retrospective screening? Would you agree that saying polygamy is wrong and then marrying two women in a cultural ceremony counts as a posthoc fail (with a plane ticket as a prize)?

What about punishing your daughter for drinking because it is against gods will? Good parenting or the thin edge of a cultural wedge? What if there was a pattern of such instances? Is this evidence of thriving adaptation?

And What’d’ya reckon? A two year probationary period? Maybe 6 weeks? Or perhaps give ‘em three generations to flex themselves? Then deport the failed descendants.

To quote a wise man, your clarification requires more words.

However my actual meta point was that an imposed population transfer into society is no more a victimless crime than a forced egress would be, Yet you are appalled by one and not the other. Which is curious.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8846

Post by Keating » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:05 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:44 am
So maybe it wasn't an intrinsic property of Christianity or Islam to stifle or encourage scientific discourse (and political dissent).
This is where I think a lot of your analysis falls over. This is cultural relativism. It's undeniable that some of the best scientific minds where not just Christian, but downright evangelical: Newton, Faraday, Kelvin. A tradition that continues even to today. Meanwhile Spain, by itself, translates more books into Spanish in a single year than the entire Arab world has translated into Arabic since the ninth century. Thus, I find it hard to conclude that Christianity is just as bad as Islam on these terms. My point isn't that Christianity is fantastic with no problems, just that Islam is particularly and inherently bad on this front. Some ideas are better than others, and on almost every level of analysis, Christianity is better than Islam. Even Dawkins says this. (Another possibility is that Arabs are particularly anti-intellectual as a race. While there is a very high level of inbreeding in Pakistan, I don't believe this is the case. I think Islam is a particularly bad cultural force.)

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8847

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:43 am

Keating wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:05 am
Kirbmarc wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:44 am
So maybe it wasn't an intrinsic property of Christianity or Islam to stifle or encourage scientific discourse (and political dissent).
This is where I think a lot of your analysis falls over. This is cultural relativism. It's undeniable that some of the best scientific minds where not just Christian, but downright evangelical: Newton, Faraday, Kelvin. A tradition that continues even to today. Meanwhile Spain, by itself, translates more books into Spanish in a single year than the entire Arab world has translated into Arabic since the ninth century. Thus, I find it hard to conclude that Christianity is just as bad as Islam on these terms. My point isn't that Christianity is fantastic with no problems, just that Islam is particularly and inherently bad on this front. Some ideas are better than others, and on almost every level of analysis, Christianity is better than Islam. Even Dawkins says this. (Another possibility is that Arabs are particularly anti-intellectual as a race. While there is a very high level of inbreeding in Pakistan, I don't believe this is the case. I think Islam is a particularly bad cultural force.)
I'm not denying that islam has fared far worse than Christianity, and that islam IS a particularly bad cultural force.

I'm simply arguing that we don't need to mourn the death of Christianity, or to appeal to "Christian values" to defend Enlightenment values. Christianity, for a series of contingent factors, was weakened and tamed.

Now it's the time to do the same about Islam.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8848

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:10 am

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Simple as that.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8849

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:15 am

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
I would fight against that. I'm not going to throw my values out to preserve some vague notion of "my culture." Darwinism. If my culture can't survive by legal, ethical means, it doesn't deserve to survive.
The law is fluid. And ethics are historically subordinated to need. Just ask the Allied planners behind strategic bombing and the A Bomb in WWII. Or those demoting the right of whites girls to not get raped in favour of political correctness.

I also suspect your “vague culture” would become less vague when it has been replaced with someone else’s. If you are lucky a later day Lauren Southern may document it for posterity. :mrgreen:

I’m curious though why you immediately equate any response to genocide. It could be mistaken for well poisoning. The equivalent of instinctively crying “Nazi”.
Not even fit for a straw man. I've never mentioned genocide. I'm in favor of strong immigration policies. By all means, encourage your local politicians to stop destructive policies.

But you've already got people there. You either sell the benefits of western ideals, or you're shit out of luck. Realistically, there's no way you're going to get rid of them without becoming a tin-pot dictatorship. Even that is the remotest of chances, because your fellow citizens won't stand for it.

Your "law is fluid" is a prescription for dictators. The idea that you can return to some idealized Australia of your youth or yore is likely a pleasant fantasy. But it's just that.

Cultures, peoples change. That is inevitable. You're not going back, so you deal with what's in front of you. Pragmatically. My vague notions of culture are such that I'm willing to put up with some change if the core values are intact. If they're not, do something practical. White identitarianism is not practical. And I think the end result would be far worse than what you have now.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8850

Post by SM1957 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:15 am

Many places are now realising that too many people want to come there and are closing their borders to a greater or lesser extent.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-43700833

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8851

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:22 am

Perhaps a nice example of American exceptionalism is that most of our foreign-born citizens (note, citizens, not illegal immigrants) are strong constitutionalists. They have American flags out front, they are proud to be citizens. They embrace the culture, cars, suburban homes and white picket fences.The direct assault on our values are coming from white college kids, idle dilitentes and SJW media.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8852

Post by John D » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:56 am

Keating wrote: I don’t think we’d be here without Christianity. What Christianity contains that Islam does not is the idea that the Mind of God is knowable. That’s where science, as we understand it, is birthed from. The early naturalists where interested in getting a better understanding of God, and studying His creation was one way to achieve that.

Islam short circuits that desire by also declaring itself to also be the last word. So, yes, Christianity does contain the seed of its own destruction in it. Add to that the two ultimate European wars and the collapse of Christianity there makes sense.

The one thing I still don’t get is why that feeling of desolation spread to the entire anglosphere. The colonies should have been more immune to that.
I agree and I think there are several characteristics of Judaism and Christianity that enabled people to create the most successful "religion" ever. The most successful "religion" being the modern Republican governments we live in today.

1) The Jews and the Christians created the idea that each individual can have a conversation with god. I read an interesting book on this subject, but I'll be damned if I can't think of the title. I have read the Koran twice and there is nothing comparable. The Koran is just a set of rules. It does not weave subtle stories about human pain and decision making into it. It is a straight cold read of the rules. Nothing inspiring.

2) The Bible, and especially the Books of Paul, question the literal nature of the Bible. Early in Christian history it was acceptable to question the literal nature of the books. Not so with the Koran. No flexibility is accepted. I think this might be because the Koran was written by one dood.... and the Bible is a long history of various stages of the religion.

3) Jesus established an idea (not unique to Jesus because you can see it in Buddhism) that people can return to virtue after failing. Success is not just a measure of following the rules, but it is a journey where you will sometimes fail...but... you can be redeemed. The Koran is a list of crimes and punishments.

4) Buddhism did not have as much success because the goal is not to overcome challenge, but to accept pain and live in peace. Buddhism has some great features, such as self reflection, mediation, mindfulness.... but it doesn't address the challenges of building up the world.

5) Finally, I am convinced most people who come to "hard atheism" (of which I am one) are very strongly drawn to Marxist ideas. I don't think atheism necessarily leads to Marxism, but Peterson is onto something when he discusses this topic. When I talk about the traditional virtues such as hard work, honor, forgiveness, honesty, family, etc.... with someone who is a member of the American Humanist Association, they think I am crazy. All they ever talk about is equity and "compassion" (compassion being the idea that we have to give more money to poor people... aka... wealth distribution).

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8853

Post by John D » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:36 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:22 am
Perhaps a nice example of American exceptionalism is that most of our foreign-born citizens (note, citizens, not illegal immigrants) are strong constitutionalists. They have American flags out front, they are proud to be citizens. They embrace the culture, cars, suburban homes and white picket fences.The direct assault on our values are coming from white college kids, idle dilitentes and SJW media.
Haha... yeah... I got a Uber ride from a dood from the middle east who was a legal migrant. We talked during the whole ride about "dis country".... and how much he loved it. And he was serious. He is working a job and driving for Uber and sending his girls to college in the US. He was knocking it out of the park because America was letting him.

I think most migrants to the US are much like this. At least all the ones I meet are like this.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8854

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:41 am

John D wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:22 am
Perhaps a nice example of American exceptionalism is that most of our foreign-born citizens (note, citizens, not illegal immigrants) are strong constitutionalists. They have American flags out front, they are proud to be citizens. They embrace the culture, cars, suburban homes and white picket fences.The direct assault on our values are coming from white college kids, idle dilitentes and SJW media.
Haha... yeah... I got a Uber ride from a dood from the middle east who was a legal migrant. We talked during the whole ride about "dis country".... and how much he loved it. And he was serious. He is working a job and driving for Uber and sending his girls to college in the US. He was knocking it out of the park because America was letting him.

I think most migrants to the US are much like this. At least all the ones I meet are like this.
Civic values. While I'm sometimes cynical about the American dream, it works as an aspirational ideal for civic participation. The US could do with less lobbies and less military spending, and more focus on healthcare/infrastructure, but the idea of coming to a new country for a new opportunity as long as you give it a shot is not so bad.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8855

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:45 am

Swiss civic values also work. Give something to the community to get in and to stay. Make connections, get yourself known outside your familiar bubble. Serve and do, not just ask.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8856

Post by Amohpmyl » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:46 am

John D wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:22 am
Perhaps a nice example of American exceptionalism is that most of our foreign-born citizens (note, citizens, not illegal immigrants) are strong constitutionalists. They have American flags out front, they are proud to be citizens. They embrace the culture, cars, suburban homes and white picket fences.The direct assault on our values are coming from white college kids, idle dilitentes and SJW media.
Haha... yeah... I got a Uber ride from a dood from the middle east who was a legal migrant. We talked during the whole ride about "dis country".... and how much he loved it. And he was serious. He is working a job and driving for Uber and sending his girls to college in the US. He was knocking it out of the park because America was letting him.

I think most migrants to the US are much like this. At least all the ones I meet are like this.
This is my experience too, as someone who has split his adult life roughly 50-50 in the US and in London so far.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8857

Post by Amohpmyl » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:47 am

Kirbmarc wrote: Swiss civic values also work. Give something to the community to get in and to stay. Make connections, get yourself known outside your familiar bubble. Serve and do, not just ask.
And try to get citizenship. Kinda tough for most people, right?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8858

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:50 am

I think that one of weaknesses of the UK is the disdain for any sort of common civic values among the teaching sector, where "British values" are seen as "colonial".

Post-colonial guilt. Switzerland didn't have any colonies.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8859

Post by Amohpmyl » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:50 am

And I'm STILL waiting for an answer to how you think Swiss people would react to gang rapes by an immigrant population as seen all over the UK if it happened in, say, Interlaken.

Still no answer?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8860

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:55 am

Amohpmyl wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: Swiss civic values also work. Give something to the community to get in and to stay. Make connections, get yourself known outside your familiar bubble. Serve and do, not just ask.
And try to get citizenship. Kinda tough for most people, right?
Very tough regardless of your ethnicity. A white as snow Dutch woman didn't get her citizenship because the local community council didn't like her being a moralizing busybody.

I'm not sure if the Swiss model works exactly as well in other countries. But there's nothing that says your citizenship should be a treat without you having to work for it.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8861

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:56 am

Amohpmyl wrote: And I'm STILL waiting for an answer to how you think Swiss people would react to gang rapes by an immigrant population as seen all over the UK if it happened in, say, Interlaken.

Still no answer?
I think that the perps would be expelled from the country. I'm not against the UK doing that.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8862

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:00 am

Speaking of which if someone joins ISIS the right answer is to make that high treason, just like for the people who joined the Nazis, and with all the consequences of the case.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8863

Post by shoutinghorse » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:51 am

Speaking of citizenship, the useless excuse of a government department that calls itself the UK Home Office, after allowing hundreds of murderous terrorist scum to return from fighting for ISIS in Syria & Iraq and who also allowed themselves to be completely duped into letting bearded 30 something fighting fit men to enter the country on the pretence that they are 13 year old boys has now decided it would be great idea to go after pensioners who came here as children of Caribbean settlers in the 1950's. What's known as the Windrush generation (after the ship they sailed on) Threatening them with deportation and cuts in pension and benefit rights if they can't prove their British Citizenship.




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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8864

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:30 am

I think you all have the causal arrow pointing the wrong way between Christianity and Western cultural values. 'Twas the values that produced the religion, with those values codified into the religious life.

I do agree with Rayshul (and JBP!) that secularism created a vacuum which was filled with hedonism and nihilism. The remedy, however, is not to plug religion back into the hole.

The reason so many anti-theists seem to be (overt or tacit) marxists is anti-theists are ideologues & zealots. What's telling is how many hardcore, abrasive anti-theists are ex-fundies. You can take the apostate out of fundamentalism, but you can't take the fundamentalism out of the apostate.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8865

Post by John D » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:39 am

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:30 am
I think you all have the causal arrow pointing the wrong way between Christianity and Western cultural values. 'Twas the values that produced the religion, with those values codified into the religious life.

I do agree with Rayshul (and JBP!) that secularism created a vacuum which was filled with hedonism and nihilism. The remedy, however, is not to plug religion back into the hole.

The reason so many anti-theists seem to be (overt or tacit) marxists is anti-theists are ideologues & zealots. What's telling is how many hardcore, abrasive anti-theists are ex-fundies. You can take the apostate out of fundamentalism, but you can't take the fundamentalism out of the apostate.
What came first... chicken.... egg.... I am not saying I know you are wrong.... necessarily. I do think there is probably more of a symbiotic kind of evolution in religious and civic thinking.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8866

Post by MarcusAu » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:41 am

I suspect there is a pending schism in the anti-theist collective (if they were ever all that together to begin with).

Noel Plum (on team -nice anti-theist or NAT) makes it seem much more reasonable than I had ever imagined...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAaTahfhqDM

There's plenty of cold pricklies out there too - if that is what you are looking for.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8867

Post by Amohpmyl » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:52 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Amohpmyl wrote: And I'm STILL waiting for an answer to how you think Swiss people would react to gang rapes by an immigrant population as seen all over the UK if it happened in, say, Interlaken.

Still no answer?
I think that the perps would be expelled from the country. I'm not against the UK doing that.
You're not answering the question I asked originally, which was how do you think the Swiss population would react, and how it might affect their view of the perps. Specifically if they came from a single ethnic/religious/whatever background. How would the public view of people from that background change. If there was a backlash, would it be justified? Also, since a large number of the gang rapists are UK citizens, do you think that there would be outrage against a similar group of citizens in Switzerland. Finally, do you think that if they all came from a specific ethnic background that any backlash against that group might be justified.

I think that you don't really have a grasp if what has happened in the UK, which is why you don't understand the deep public reaction against the rapists, the ethnic group they come from, and the elites who let this happen under their very noses.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8868

Post by Amohpmyl » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:52 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Amohpmyl wrote: And I'm STILL waiting for an answer to how you think Swiss people would react to gang rapes by an immigrant population as seen all over the UK if it happened in, say, Interlaken.

Still no answer?
I think that the perps would be expelled from the country. I'm not against the UK doing that.
You can't expel UK citizen legally.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8869

Post by Amohpmyl » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:55 am

shoutinghorse wrote: Speaking of citizenship, the useless excuse of a government department that calls itself the UK Home Office, after allowing hundreds of murderous terrorist scum to return from fighting for ISIS in Syria & Iraq and who also allowed themselves to be completely duped into letting bearded 30 something fighting fit men to enter the country on the pretence that they are 13 year old boys has now decided it would be great idea to go after pensioners who came here as children of Caribbean settlers in the 1950's. What's known as the Windrush generation (after the ship they sailed on) Threatening them with deportation and cuts in pension and benefit rights if they can't prove their British Citizenship.



Man, that's fucked.

The UK governments over my lifetime have really, really fucked up the country. I'm seriously considering actually formally renouncing my UK citizenship. I need to talk if over with Mrs. Lsuoma, but I'm ashamed of what the politicians have done to the UK. Cunts.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8870

Post by Amohpmyl » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:01 am

Amohpmyl wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Amohpmyl wrote: And I'm STILL waiting for an answer to how you think Swiss people would react to gang rapes by an immigrant population as seen all over the UK if it happened in, say, Interlaken.

Still no answer?
I think that the perps would be expelled from the country. I'm not against the UK doing that.
You can't expel UK citizen legally.
And just to make it clear, I mean immigrant in this conversation to mean people who have immigrated into the country in the last, say, century, and who may or may not have taken citizenship.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8871

Post by free thoughtpolice » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:17 am

Matt Cavanaugh wrote: For anyone else who scrums with SocJus blockheads claiming blacks have lower IQs because of some massive lead poisoning epidemic, I provide some data to the contrary:

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/tipp ... 3857104273
From that thread, a qote from the world's stupidest genius, democommiescrazierbrother:
I've tested positive for genius a couple of times--about 10 years apart--as part of the process of being tested for ADD/ADHD. Genius as measured by IQ is just one marker for intelligence.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8872

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:20 am

shoutinghorse wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:51 am
Speaking of citizenship, the useless excuse of a government department that calls itself the UK Home Office, after allowing hundreds of murderous terrorist scum to return from fighting for ISIS in Syria & Iraq and who also allowed themselves to be completely duped into letting bearded 30 something fighting fit men to enter the country on the pretence that they are 13 year old boys has now decided it would be great idea to go after pensioners who came here as children of Caribbean settlers in the 1950's. What's known as the Windrush generation (after the ship they sailed on) Threatening them with deportation and cuts in pension and benefit rights if they can't prove their British Citizenship.



I'll bet Amber Rudd's fingerprints are all over this.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8873

Post by shoutinghorse » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:54 am

There is a God after all.

Twins :P


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8874

Post by free thoughtpolice » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:04 am

Oooh, the hottest chicks are hot Nazi chicks!

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8875

Post by Bhurzum » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:37 am

WARNING: Disturbing footage!

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8876

Post by ERV » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:40 pm

BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN


BENIGN!!!!!

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8877

Post by shoutinghorse » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:45 pm

Jeezus fucking Christ Bhurzum .. Your trigger warning didn't work.

:o :angry-screaming: :violence-pistoldouble:

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8878

Post by free thoughtpolice » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:48 pm

ERV wrote: BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN


BENIGN!!!!!
:clap: :dance:

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8879

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:52 pm

ERV wrote: BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN BENIGN


BENIGN!!!!!
Excellent. I know how stressful waiting on test results for a pet can be.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#8880

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:03 pm

The British elite are turning the Islamification of the nation into an irreversible fait accompli before enough of the people wake up. Please tell me I am wrong and that I'm being alarmist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcoDJB2kP7w

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