National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

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National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#1

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:10 pm

Welcome. This thread replaces the ethnostate precursor.
And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
You shout and no one seems to hear.
And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#2

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:02 pm

Not all muslims are adverse to appreciating western culture.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#3

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:06 pm

More thread context.

This thread permits a place for posts clearly directed at national identity within the context of demography and culture as well as a location for Kirb and others to drop his/their walls of texts and shorter missives on liberal nirvana. Finally it provides a forum for aligned run-away discussions. This is a broader and more neutral remit than the existing thread, which was designed around sand bagging.

More context: viewtopic.php?p=474920#p474920

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#4

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:02 pm

Brive1987 wrote: More thread context.

This thread permits a place for posts clearly directed at national identity within the context of demography and culture as well as a location for Kirb and others to drop his/their walls of texts and shorter missives on liberal nirvana. Finally it provides a forum for aligned run-away discussions. This is a broader and more neutral remit than the existing thread, which was designed around sand bagging.

More context: viewtopic.php?p=474920#p474920
Fair and balanced like Fox. :bjarte:

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#5

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:24 am

Th remit of the thread is neutral / balanced (no criticism-free walls of liberal screed on the main thread and no relentless red pilling).

The descriptor is as fair as it needs to be; you never did explain a best practice state which liberalised a mass flow of immigrants from a strongly identitarian source.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#6

Post by MarcusAu » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:29 am

There has been talk from time to time of 'ANZAC culture' - which you might think would relate more to the army than society at large.

So the question has been begged - are Australian and New Zealand cultures distinct or do they blend together in an antipodean gumbo?

And who did invent pavlova?

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#7

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:38 am

Resource: the interactive ethno-Swiss graph.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society/mi ... d/42412156

80% foreign residents are European. No major non European blocks. Most Muslims come from moderate Turkey.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#8

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:09 am

MarcusAu wrote: There has been talk from time to time of 'ANZAC culture' - which you might think would relate more to the army than society at large.

So the question has been begged - are Australian and New Zealand cultures distinct or do they blend together in an antipodean gumbo?

And who did invent pavlova?
Australian identity started to firm up in the later stages of the 19C, finding expression in poetry, painting, prose, emblems and the push for Federation.

The identity combined Anglo Saxon exceptionalism with Acadian themes drawn (of course) from the environment. The bush in general and the outback in particular. The pitch was that this combination drew out a super Briton divested of the squalor of urban industrialisation. This manifested in laconic, laid back egalitarianism and mateship. A practical pitch in and can do attitude.

The trick was that the real Australia kicked in as you left the city behind. A classic example of this is CEW Beans On the Wool Track published before he became the Australian official war historian.

The Boer War with its Light Horse pushed this along. So in WW1 we were keen to demonstrate our unique maturity and the history written was essentially a social one. A story where the best of the best sacrificed themselves and provided an extraordinary role model for both UK and domestic society. They became our eternal flame representing the nations essentialism. Hence the War Memorial in Canberra was modeled on a Byzantine Temple and is weirdly pagan.

It’s been odd watching this specific foundation narrative turn civic-national. I doubt it will have any real historical link in another 20 years, it will have all the pomo of an African Joan of Arc.

This origin story is not really shared by NZ who had a different startup dynamic - even though the history is shared and Gallipoli venerated.

So different, if superficially aligned culture. NZers typically have sheep, rugby and a ticket to Sydney.

And as always we adopt anything successful that comes from across the Tasman so the pavlova is by definition “ours”.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#9

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:15 am

So every Briton was a latent Australian who only needed the palliative experience of the bush to find natural release.

This model was not really expected to extend to peoples of other culture. For obvious reasons. That’s why other Europeans were tolerated but found it hard to be considered a “real Australian” until they fully assimilated. The Sunni Lebanese don’t really have a hope.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#10

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:23 am

The place of the Aboriginal in the Australian story has relevance here as well. I think there is a feeling that they kind of represent the stewards of the magic outback and are accorded a kind of noble status in this context.

So there is almost a sense of betrayal when they wind up drunk dysfunctional urban slum dwellers, fiddling their kids, demanding hand outs and seeking cheap land grabs.

The whole nature, Native, military, outback bond is well illustrated in this version, if you strip out the forced multi culti.



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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#12

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:12 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:09 am
MarcusAu wrote: There has been talk from time to time of 'ANZAC culture' - which you might think would relate more to the army than society at large.

So the question has been begged - are Australian and New Zealand cultures distinct or do they blend together in an antipodean gumbo?

And who did invent pavlova?
Australian identity started to firm up in the later stages of the 19C, finding expression in poetry, painting, prose, emblems and the push for Federation.

The identity combined Anglo Saxon exceptionalism with Acadian themes drawn (of course) from the environment. The bush in general and the outback in particular. The pitch was that this combination drew out a super Briton divested of the squalor of urban industrialisation. This manifested in laconic, laid back egalitarianism and mateship. A practical pitch in and can do attitude.

The trick was that the real Australia kicked in as you left the city behind. A classic example of this is CEW Beans On the Wool Track published before he became the Australian official war historian.

The Boer War with its Light Horse pushed this along. So in WW1 we were keen to demonstrate our unique maturity and the history written was essentially a social one. A story where the best of the best sacrificed themselves and provided an extraordinary role model for both UK and domestic society. They became our eternal flame representing the nations essentialism. Hence the War Memorial in Canberra was modeled on a Byzantine Temple and is weirdly pagan.

It’s been odd watching this specific foundation narrative turn civic-national. I doubt it will have any real historical link in another 20 years, it will have all the pomo of an African Joan of Arc.

This origin story is not really shared by NZ who had a different startup dynamic - even though the history is shared and Gallipoli venerated.

So different, if superficially aligned culture. NZers typically have sheep, rugby and a ticket to Sydney.

And as always we adopt anything successful that comes from across the Tasman so the pavlova is by definition “ours”.
I find that Australia is best understood by the movie "Quigley Down Under."

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#13

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:31 pm

Stra
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: I find that Australia is best understood by the movie "Quigley Down Under."
Strangely enough I’ve never, ever heard of that movie! I’d be surprised if anyone else here had. :doh:
Quigley Down Under is a 1990 Australian-American Western film directed by Simon Wincer and starring Tom Selleck .....
:lol: :lol:

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#14

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:37 pm

Brive1987 wrote: Stra
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: I find that Australia is best understood by the movie "Quigley Down Under."
Strangely enough I’ve never, ever heard of that movie! I’d be surprised if anyone else here had. :doh:
Quigley Down Under is a 1990 Australian-American Western film directed by Simon Wincer and starring Tom Selleck .....
:lol: :lol:
It's a fun, daft little movie, but it's about an immigrant siding with the Aboriginal against the British settlers, so I won't expect you'll like it. :twatson:

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#15

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:35 pm

Just asked 6 people here in the office and no one has heard of, let allowed watched, Quigly. I imagine it’s a non Antipodean wet dream. Shane meets Rorke’s Drift perhaps??

I’m glad you enjoyed it though.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#16

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:35 pm

“Let alone”

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#17

Post by Kirbmarc » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:03 am

Brive1987 wrote: Just asked 6 people here in the office and no one has heard of, let allowed watched, Quigly. I imagine it’s a non Antipodean wet dream. Shane meets Rorke’s Drift perhaps??

I’m glad you enjoyed it though.
Eh, it's no masterpiece. Fun in its own way. Crocodile Dundee is better.

Perhaps Lauren Southern can film something about the Triumph of Southern Will. :bjarte:

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#18

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:00 am

Always go classic.


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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#19

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:03 am

Turns out you were right about those Chinks Brive. Don't let them they will rip apart the founding principles of Australia, like Australia
https://dailystormer.name/very-bad-opti ... -churches/
On the plus side they don't attack the alt-right and the national identity movement.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#20

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:04 am

:drool: should read like Christianity.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#21

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:19 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:03 am
Turns out you were right about those Chinks Brive. Don't let them they will rip apart the founding principles of Australia, like Australia
https://dailystormer.name/very-bad-opti ... -churches/
On the plus side they don't attack the alt-right and the national identity movement.
I’m assuming that if my input can be sandbagged from the main thread, then I can request that the daily stormer be quarantined from here? Maybe I could set up a sub thread for you?

Or is that not how it works?

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#22

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:36 pm

Sorry B. I thought this was the place where we could discuss the national identity movements and their views.
So what is the guideline? Nobody to the right of Goldy or Styxenipslipper?

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#23

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:57 pm

I’m not sure what value American antisemitic conspiracies bring to the table - other than defining the edge of extremism. An extremism characterised by magic (and rabid) racial supremacy.

Casually injexting the site into more mainstream national-cultural discussions does of course poison that well.

But maybe I’ve missed your point? Other than there is a complex left-right/liberal-collective continuum in play comprising a number of individual threads.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#24

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:22 pm

Well, that article wasn't about Jews or conspiracies but merely talking about how how the Chinese government was persecuting Christians and that hostility could be brought to Australia and threaten the culture by attacking your Christian heritage.
Speak of conspiracies, is this the place for talking about the current state of White Genocide in Canada if we decide to dig up that thoroughly dead horse and flog it some more?

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#25

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:30 pm

Ah. So it’s safe to click thru without receiving a swatting. Noted

Cultural reengineering via Govt mandated demographic change is always interesting. Be it in Canada or Australia.

Labeling the process with a loosey goosey term that doesn’t know whether it describes metaphysic or physical destruction, in whole OR part, with intent (of some kind, displayed by an actor of some description) is fine too. As a thought piece. Even if that term is used in popular conversation with a different, incredibly specific connotation.

Go for it.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#26

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Labeling the process with a loosey goosey term that doesn’t know whether it describes metaphysic or physical destruction, in whole OR part, with intent (of some kind, displayed by an actor of some description) is fine too. As a thought piece. Even if that term is used in popular conversation with a different, incredibly specific connotation.
So it is okay if you go a little bit loosy goosey* you might just throw around nazi or sexist or rape apologist is fine as long as your intent is to be metaphor, metaphysic, or applying aggressively nuanced phrases? Maybe the libtards that engage in that obviously intellectually dishonest have an out there? A problem with doing that is people might be unable to understand your intention. Ironic? Metaphor? Attempt at humor?
btw, It sounds like you didn't get gouged on your sewer upgrade.
* There have flocks of thousands of Canada Geese passing overhead the last few days heading south. Alas, the end of summer. :cry:

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#27

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:48 pm

I was curating some religious claims. Near the end of this brother's testimony he reveals something amazing!'

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#28

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:51 pm

There should be an implicit relationship between people exchanging ‘thought games’. That’s half the appeal, that the conversation is operating on a number of levels of meaning. It’s not meant to be a gotcha tactic. Though sometimes I guess part of the experiment is see if the other person is keyed in. The Pit has always operated on this type of nod and wink approach. It’s part of the charm of the place.

I’ve been around here long enough for people to know I am not a Nazi or a davdoodoo (sic) racist. If there was any concern I’ve pretty explicitly set boundaries beyond which it would be foolish to go. So I see the subtle and not so subtle smearing and straw manning as problematic.

I’ve also said that any use of “genocide” outside of the almost unusable narrow popular definition is sailing amongst the rocks. Because on the legal and formal front there is considerable disquiet over a term never properly locked down. Disquiet by lawyers and historians and diplomats completely outside the weird circle of the alt right/left and about pragmatic non alt-right issues.

So I get it when Faith uses the term in an expressly ironic fashion (she used a ? and later clarified it was “exaggeration”) with underlying intent. In a click bait video. Where she didn’t reference the term directly. I’m interested to see how far Mark Collette can push his argument before it breaksdown. I’m interested in the concept of cultural “genocide” which was, at least in part, a driver behind the original term back in the 1920s. Because it describes an intriguing concept.

So grab me when I use “white genocide” without a smirk or wink. But until then it’s a mental cud chewing exercise.

.........

The sewer thing was just for clearing roots. It was not a fix. Just spinning the wheel for another 9 months.

And summer is coming. Today was meant to get to 27C. Though I think it fell short.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#29

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:54 pm

King David was a fucking ginger!
ginger.PNG
(674.65 KiB) Downloaded 204 times
Like this guy.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#30

Post by Keating » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:36 pm

I looked off the main thread. I don't think you'll get an honest argument here Brive.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#31

Post by Kirbmarc » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:37 pm

Brive1987 wrote: I’ve been around here long enough for people to know I am not a Nazi or a davdoodoo (sic) racist.
All jokes aside, the problem with your position is that it is slippery and muddled. I don't think you are pushing for genocide, or for Steersman-esque "population transfers", and I don't think you are a race essentialist like those you can find on Stormfront or other neo-nazi websites, or a "one-drop-rule" fanatic like Tara McCarthy or Richard Spencer. I don't think you harbor race animosity towards individuals.

And I'm definitely sure you're not a "pan-white" nationalist, someone who thinks that there is a "white common heritage" as being homogeneous within itself beyond the similarities of European cultures. To put it in simple terms, you're not going to tell Hungarian nationalists that they have a duty to form a "white Roman empire" with Romanians and Poles, like Richard Spencer did before being banned from Hungary by Orban.

However you are, by your own admission, a cultural essentialist. You seem to think that cultural differences are rooted within population differences and very closely related to ancestry (even if they're not one and the same). When presented with evidence of assimilation (like in the case of the African woman playing Jean D'Arc) you seem to think that the spread of European cultural ideas is a loss, not a gain, which is hard to explain if what you care about is preservation of culture. You frequently focus on links between cultures, ancestry and crime, as in the case of the "Sudanese gangs" in Australia. And you seem to think that there's an essential Anglo-Australian culture which is threatened by immigration of people from outside Europe, but not so much by immigration of European people. So that, naturally, makes people confused as to what exactly you mean by "culture".

Also you have praised the approach of Alexandr Dugin, someone who believes in a mystical cultural union of Russia and Europe against American degeneracy, a fan of "fascist fascism", as being worth integrating within your discourse. You have a quote of his in your signature. You have expressed views, half-joking and half-sincere, about limiting the vote to families which produce children, or about taking elements of fascism to counter "libtard excesses". You have praised strong identitarian religious and cultural policies. Again, those are muddled and slippery positions, that you don't seem to commit to too much.

Furthermore, you promote people who go quite a bit beyond cultural essentialism. Lauren Southern has definitely promoted a narrative based on visible race in her "streets of Paris" video, where she associates the presence of people of visible non-European ancestry with the idea that soon "France isn't going to be France anymore". She also has promoted the idea that immigration is "population replacement", again something which is hard to reconcile with a focus on culture.

Faith Goldy also has repeatdely flitered with the concept of "white genocide", albeit in the usual "joking"/"exaggeration" mode, to imply that some sort of essential property of people of European ancestry is being lost with immigration of non-Europeans. Generation Identity, which you have praised, has offered spaces and support to people in the "human biodiversity" sphere like Jared Taylor, who think that genetic differences explain cultural differences, at least to some degree, and have promoted peaceful separation of people according to ancestry.

The entire idea of an "alt-lite" being separated from the "alt-right" is dubious. The difference between the two seems to be a matter of degree rather than of content.

So, to make things less abstract, I don't believe you would attack people or deprive them of their rights just because of their ancestry. However I'm not sure that you wouldn't limit some civil rights and political rights in order to ensure that a cultural essence is retained. You're not a goose-stepping Nazi, but I'm not sure that you'd be against a "soft" fascist Franco/Peronist regime, if it had a specific Australian flavor.


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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#33

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:01 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: I’ve been around here long enough for people to know I am not a Nazi or a davdoodoo (sic) racist.
All jokes aside, the problem with your position is that it is slippery and muddled. I don't think you are pushing for genocide, or for Steersman-esque "population transfers", and I don't think you are a race essentialist like those you can find on Stormfront or other neo-nazi websites, or a "one-drop-rule" fanatic like Tara McCarthy or Richard Spencer. I don't think you harbor race animosity towards individuals.

And I'm definitely sure you're not a "pan-white" nationalist, someone who thinks that there is a "white common heritage" as being homogeneous within itself beyond the similarities of European cultures. To put it in simple terms, you're not going to tell Hungarian nationalists that they have a duty to form a "white Roman empire" with Romanians and Poles, like Richard Spencer did before being banned from Hungary by Orban.

However you are, by your own admission, a cultural essentialist. You seem to think that cultural differences are rooted within population differences and very closely related to ancestry (even if they're not one and the same). When presented with evidence of assimilation (like in the case of the African woman playing Jean D'Arc) you seem to think that the spread of European cultural ideas is a loss, not a gain, which is hard to explain if what you care about is preservation of culture. You frequently focus on links between cultures, ancestry and crime, as in the case of the "Sudanese gangs" in Australia. And you seem to think that there's an essential Anglo-Australian culture which is threatened by immigration of people from outside Europe, but not so much by immigration of European people. So that, naturally, makes people confused as to what exactly you mean by "culture".

Also you have praised the approach of Alexandr Dugin, someone who believes in a mystical cultural union of Russia and Europe against American degeneracy, a fan of "fascist fascism", as being worth integrating within your discourse. You have a quote of his in your signature. You have expressed views, half-joking and half-sincere, about limiting the vote to families which produce children, or about taking elements of fascism to counter "libtard excesses". You have praised strong identitarian religious and cultural policies. Again, those are muddled and slippery positions, that you don't seem to commit to too much.

Furthermore, you promote people who go quite a bit beyond cultural essentialism. Lauren Southern has definitely promoted a narrative based on visible race in her "streets of Paris" video, where she associates the presence of people of visible non-European ancestry with the idea that soon "France isn't going to be France anymore". She also has promoted the idea that immigration is "population replacement", again something which is hard to reconcile with a focus on culture.

Faith Goldy also has repeatdely flitered with the concept of "white genocide", albeit in the usual "joking"/"exaggeration" mode, to imply that some sort of essential property of people of European ancestry is being lost with immigration of non-Europeans. Generation Identity, which you have praised, has offered spaces and support to people in the "human biodiversity" sphere like Jared Taylor, who think that genetic differences explain cultural differences, at least to some degree, and have promoted peaceful separation of people according to ancestry.

The entire idea of an "alt-lite" being separated from the "alt-right" is dubious. The difference between the two seems to be a matter of degree rather than of content.

So, to make things less abstract, I don't believe you would attack people or deprive them of their rights just because of their ancestry. However I'm not sure that you wouldn't limit some civil rights and political rights in order to ensure that a cultural essence is retained. You're not a goose-stepping Nazi, but I'm not sure that you'd be against a "soft" fascist Franco/Peronist regime, if it had a specific Australian flavor.
1. I have no idea what an Australian themed Franco dictationship means. I don’t think you do either.
1b. If I have to have Franco can I get the 1950s ‘Spanish miracle’ version rather than the 1940s one?
2. An essential Anglo-Australian culture threatened by mass influx of non Anglos possessing their own identity? Yep.
3. Cultural differences rooted within pop. differences? And this mapped loosely to heritage? That’s generally how it works.
4. High per capita Sudanese gang crime having a cultural driver? Uncontroversial.
5. Praised Dugan? Nope. I’ve acknowledged some of his points are interesting. Even a broken clock ....
6. Dugan’s quote is a funny riff on traditionalism and the Pit’s obsession with the “one true genocide”.
7. The distinction between anything on a continuum is one of degree.
8. Alt Right has devolved to pushing racist magic with a heavy dose of globalist determination.
9. Alt Lite is more akin to cultural essentialism. Yes. There is a shifting venn diagram.
10. Southern’s Paris video clearly indicated an alien (to France) people - culture, ethnicity, tradition, values.
11. Values help define contemp. culture and values are held by people. Replace a population and the culture will change.
12. The “productive unit” model of democracy was an extreme pitch in contradiction to individualism. Is there a middle route?
13. Generation ID conduct interesting non violent activism. They did well to pre-empt Italian policy re the NGOs.
14. Don’t confuse my lack of absolute certainty with muddled ideas.
15. Don’t confuse the apparent subjectiveness of terms like “culture” and “ethnicity” with a lack of meaning or applicability.

My use of fascist tools is strictly limited:

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#34

Post by d4m10n » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:02 am

Are there any good examples of "democratic parlimentary fascism" in action? :fpig:

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#35

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:23 pm

d4m10n wrote: Are there any good examples of "democratic parlimentary fascism" in action? :fpig:
The same was said about the prospects for liberal-authoritarianism. Britain and the EU sorted that out. Have faith.

;)

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#36

Post by KiwiInOz » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:25 pm

MarcusAu wrote: There has been talk from time to time of 'ANZAC culture' - which you might think would relate more to the army than society at large.

So the question has been begged - are Australian and New Zealand cultures distinct or do they blend together in an antipodean gumbo?

And who did invent pavlova?
NZ culture is distinct from Australian culture. It is now largely a syncretism of NZ British, NZ Maori (post renaissance of 1980s), and Pasifika aspects. It has moved on even in the 16 years that I have been in Australia, and I sometimes feel like a foreigner when I go back (although I also feel comfortable with it). It is now largely comfortable in its cultural identity and is happy to alternate between the terrier taking on the big dogs and the cat, disdainful of the antics of the big dogs.

I would argue that Australian culture is fragmented due to the large size and small population of the country, clumped historic and contemporary distribution of non-European immigrants (including white Saffers), and lack of conciliation with indigenous Australia. The country is insecure in its identity and is being pulled in multiple directions in its desire to be liked by the US, sell rocks to China, and be the geopolitical power base in the South east Asia/South Pacific region. It is girt by sea but not so keen on sharing its boundless plains, and there is wealth for toil as long as you are part of the rentier class.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#37

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:28 pm

41% of the population live in Sydney/Melbourne. Another 27% live in the other 6 capital cities. The other 32% live everywhere else.

This reflects why Australia, per capita, gravitate to a homogenised identity on the one hand and intense local tribalism on the other. As demographics change, the relevance of the homogenised identity has shredded. Anzac Day, life-savers, rural motifs, the Queen, Vietnam/Tobruk/Ypres, the idea of a better breed of Englishman, Aussie Rules/Rugby .....

In Sydney, the population grew by 1.1 million over the past 25 years. Of these, 718K were born overseas. 684K of which were from what my source (Macrobusiness) states are “non-Anglo countries”. The hide of them.

Relevance deprivation. As a consequence we have nearly half the population filling out siloed cultural hubs in two cities and improvising an identity. But really either just getting by in a bland civic nothing or leveraging property wealth within an increasingly dystopic environment.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#38

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:21 am

Amusing largely because Faith is wearing The FLOTUS “Imreallyndont care” jacket.

:lol:


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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#39

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:22 am

“I really don’t care”

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#40

Post by Keating » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:38 am


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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#41

Post by Keating » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:45 am

Apparently Amazon links don't show up?

Book: Yoram Hazony's “The Virtue of Nationalism”

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#42

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:49 pm

Another day in South Africa.
I managed to shield my two sons from seeing their father dying on our living room floor by getting the boys to lock themselves in their bedroom and stay there,” she said.

“I then tried to stop Dan’s bleeding and get an ambulance to the scene.

“But with Dan not responsive and running back and forth up and down the stairs to keep the boys inside it meant that I was not with him when he died.
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real- ... e689f06092

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#43

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:02 pm

Keating wrote: Apparently Amazon links don't show up?

Book: Yoram Hazony's “The Virtue of Nationalism”
Listening to the podcast now. Haven’t disagreed with much, the call back to the Old Testament as an objective source of nationalism is a bit odd, but a worthwhile pitch.

The Lockian atomised individual is a nice thought picture.


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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#45

Post by MarcusAu » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:04 pm

KiwiInOz wrote:
MarcusAu wrote: There has been talk from time to time of 'ANZAC culture' - which you might think would relate more to the army than society at large.

So the question has been begged - are Australian and New Zealand cultures distinct or do they blend together in an antipodean gumbo?

And who did invent pavlova?
NZ culture is distinct from Australian culture. It is now largely a syncretism of NZ British, NZ Maori (post renaissance of 1980s), and Pasifika aspects. It has moved on even in the 16 years that I have been in Australia, and I sometimes feel like a foreigner when I go back (although I also feel comfortable with it). It is now largely comfortable in its cultural identity and is happy to alternate between the terrier taking on the big dogs and the cat, disdainful of the antics of the big dogs.

I would argue that Australian culture is fragmented due to the large size and small population of the country, clumped historic and contemporary distribution of non-European immigrants (including white Saffers), and lack of conciliation with indigenous Australia. The country is insecure in its identity and is being pulled in multiple directions in its desire to be liked by the US, sell rocks to China, and be the geopolitical power base in the South east Asia/South Pacific region. It is girt by sea but not so keen on sharing its boundless plains, and there is wealth for toil as long as you are part of the rentier class.
I always thought it sounded a bit affected to answer every phone call 'Key Aura' and to consciously pepper every utterance with Maori words.

But...that said...I have seen the pancake rocks, traveled through Authur's Pass and over the Cook Straight. I have a passing knowledge of (and appreciation for) Colin McCann, Phillip Clairmont, Barry Crump, John Clarke and Sam Hunt...so, maybe something has seeped in.

There have been other elements too - for instance my dad had a friend from Puhoi who always seemed a bit Bohemian.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#46

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:19 pm

Black with no sugar.



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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#48

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:21 pm

Kirb, I’m not sure Franco is a cultural fit for Oz.

Catchy music though.


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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#49

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:26 pm

Their methodology has been proved sound in the search for FEMA Camps.


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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#51

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:02 pm

Oops wrong post. This was the post I carefully curated for posting here. It turns out that respected conservative/alt-lite journalist Alex Jones has turned on other conservatives, calling them a leftist false flag conspiracy even though they have bravely stood up for his right to free speech. This is why the alt-lite are losing respectability. They won't admit to what they know to be the truth about the JP. If anything they are just gutless shills for the leftard shitlibs and are probably more responsible for the white genocide than the libtards by watering down the truth.
https://dailystormer.name/alex-jones-cl ... onspiracy/

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#52

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:07 am

free thoughtpolice wrote: Oops wrong post. This was the post I carefully curated for posting here. It turns out that respected conservative/alt-lite journalist Alex Jones has turned on other conservatives, calling them a leftist false flag conspiracy even though they have bravely stood up for his right to free speech. This is why the alt-lite are losing respectability. They won't admit to what they know to be the truth about the JP. If anything they are just gutless shills for the leftard shitlibs and are probably more responsible for the white genocide than the libtards by watering down the truth.
https://dailystormer.name/alex-jones-cl ... onspiracy/
Your post, the DS, Alex Jones.

Trolls and Poes all the way down.

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#53

Post by free thoughtpolice » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:58 am

British migrant to Australia incites murder. The Brits are still sending criminals to Australia. If Aussies were smart they would only allow the hard working, law abiding Chinese in as immigrants. Maybe send a lot of bogans back to the UK too.
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relat ... 28e2ff6cea

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#54

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:05 am

free thoughtpolice wrote: British migrant to Australia incites murder. The Brits are still sending criminals to Australia. If Aussies were smart they would only allow the hard working, law abiding Chinese in as immigrants. Maybe send a lot of bogans back to the UK too.
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relat ... 28e2ff6cea
No thanks.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-12/r ... al/8163294

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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#55

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:05 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:05 am
free thoughtpolice wrote: British migrant to Australia incites murder. The Brits are still sending criminals to Australia. If Aussies were smart they would only allow the hard working, law abiding Chinese in as immigrants. Maybe send a lot of bogans back to the UK too.
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relat ... 28e2ff6cea
No thanks.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-12/r ... al/8163294
You know that is an outlier, and besides he didn't kill any white people. The whites are the really dangerous ones.
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/0910 ... ly-murder/


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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#57

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:19 pm

Faith Ghouldy: Got kicked off of social media, apparently because she is a grifter.
She loves to chase down ambulances headed to slummy areas to get more evidence of how immigration is bad and they don't adapt and as evidence snivels how local migrants have been dissing Greektown. I guess multiculturalism is great if your tribe is included.
Faith. Will you promise not to drink the blood of young virgins to keep yourself young? It is a bit selfish. Also, I can only pray you have humanely harvested the collagen you have been consuming.
A natural politician or what?



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Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#60

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:06 am

Do you agree that the third placed candidate should be denied access to the debates, despite possessing a 7000 strong petition to the contrary?

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