The Ethnostate Thread!

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#121

Post by MarcusAu » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:09 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
d4m10n wrote:
Casting aside individuality in favor of group identity is the ultimate SJW move.
Are we playing “name the logical fallacy”
Are we? And more to the point, is he wrong?
I would say yes he is wrong. Identity politics is hardly just a left-wing / SJW thing.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#122

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:12 pm

MarcusAu wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
d4m10n wrote:
Casting aside individuality in favor of group identity is the ultimate SJW move.
Are we playing “name the logical fallacy”
Are we? And more to the point, is he wrong?
I would say yes he is wrong. Identity politics is hardly just a left-wing / SJW thing.
It is, but casting aside individuality had largely disappeared until the SJWs made it a thing again, The far-right identitarians had dwindled to a tiny, fringe minority before the reaction to the SJW sphere caused a huge uptick in white identitarianism. You could argue that it's always been an element, but the SJWs really put the stamp on it and were directly responsible for its current popularity.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#123

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:56 pm

MarcusAu wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
d4m10n wrote:
Casting aside individuality in favor of group identity is the ultimate SJW move.
Are we playing “name the logical fallacy”
Are we? And more to the point, is he wrong?
I would say yes he is wrong. Identity politics is hardly just a left-wing / SJW thing.
My point was the missing middle ground.

And no one has yet demonstrated that politics isn’t entirely centred on collective identities. It appears some indentity politics (collectives of oppression) are based on a retarded group identity. Other politics, say nationalism or defence of western culture is simply forbidden but the rest is A-Ok.

By what definition is “classical-liberal-humanist” not an “identity”? New Atheism was a particularly virulent form of ID. As was A+.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#124

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:04 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
MarcusAu wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
d4m10n wrote:
Casting aside individuality in favor of group identity is the ultimate SJW move.
Are we playing “name the logical fallacy”
Are we? And more to the point, is he wrong?
I would say yes he is wrong. Identity politics is hardly just a left-wing / SJW thing.
It is, but casting aside individuality had largely disappeared until the SJWs made it a thing again, The far-right identitarians had dwindled to a tiny, fringe minority before the reaction to the SJW sphere caused a huge uptick in white identitarianism. You could argue that it's always been an element, but the SJWs really put the stamp on it and were directly responsible for its current popularity.
I agree. The move of SJWism to the western culture / race space, global economic policy plus non existent border policy in both USA and Europe were the drivers for current popularism. Which is massive, when you stop focusing on the mad right.

I think Australia would have been happy to keep boiling the frog and the only twitch we are really getting now is the fact that mass migration has broken our cities. The high numbers of Muslims in Europe caused a different dynamic.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#125

Post by MarcusAu » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:49 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
My point was the missing middle ground.

And no one has yet demonstrated that politics isn’t entirely centred on collective identities. It appears some indentity politics (collectives of oppression) are based on a retarded group identity. Other politics, say nationalism or defence of western culture is simply forbidden but the rest is A-Ok.

By what definition is “classical-liberal-humanist” not an “identity”? New Atheism was a particularly virulent form of ID. As was A+.
You could also define the tendancy of fundamentalist christian groups to vote right-wing in America, and latina / black groups to vote left-wing, as identity politics.

The broad political alliances and 'rising tide raises all boats' attitude may not have been as prevalent in the past as we like to think.

Do you really fault Irish or Italian groups for putting the concerns of their own immediate communities first before an abstract greater good?

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#126

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:38 pm

Still curious about how you would deal with extant populations in nominally white cities that may continue to out-reproduce the white population for some time. Creativity73 had a non-novel but effective approach, to give her undeserved credit.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#127

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:55 pm

What happens when they outlaw abortion? Presently, black women have more abortions than white women. Will conservatives think twice when they see the black population, especially the poorer ones out breed the white folk?

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#128

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:16 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: What happens when they outlaw abortion? Presently, black women have more abortions than white women. Will conservatives think twice when they see the black population, especially the poorer ones out breed the white folk?
I think most conservatives fall into a spectrum, with the true believers on one side and the lip-service to trad values, economic conservatives on the other. The former strongly believe god will work it out, the latter just make enough noise to keep the believers happy. Besides, rich conservatives can always find an abortion provider should daddy's princess prove indescrete, and more poor blacks means cheaper labor costs. Same thing with immigration, legal and otherwise. I know some mighty conservative folk who yell about illegals, but don't really check who happens to be doing their landscaping.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#129

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:02 pm

Abortion outlawed?

Well black family dysfunction, worse even than during slave times, would be revealed. So to would be Liberal welfare state policy failure.

As I mentioned to uncomprehending brains on the main thread. The cost of keeping this failure manageable in the real world is a black womb-based “genocide” :mrgreen: brought to you by the party for minorities.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#130

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:39 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: Still curious about how you would deal with extant populations in nominally white cities that may continue to out-reproduce the white population for some time. Creativity73 had a non-novel but effective approach, to give her undeserved credit.
Who is creativity73?

To be honest, I can’t see how demographic change in Sydney or Melbourne could be reversed.

However. The ridiculous inflow of culturally unaligned migrants has to stop. Even that is an economic and social policy decision that I suspect is beyond the urban elites. But once people are here the chain reaction is lit and simple solutions evaporate.

Assuming that’s sorted. :) We need policies to at least equalise birth rates.

I’d attempt to align migration where possible to culturally aligned nations, functional commonwealth ones.
I’d disincentive people attracted to social relief programs by removing said programs.
I’d encourage voluntary (assisted) return to country for any who lost interest in the OZ dream.
I’d tax ESL households who failed to meet language and culture tests per child to offset the introduced dysfunction.

I’d reward functional social units (families) with baby assistance packages, assuming they were both naturally born here (ie life long tax payers), married for two years and one partner in stable work.

And I’d implement the equivalent of a strong civics program at school that also stressed positive cultural embrace of “settlers” “explorers” ANZACs, painters/poets and storytellers. Heritage stuff. While resisting the tendency to celebrate cultural equivalency.

No magic bullet :rimshot:

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#131

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:16 pm

So, after the talk of ethnostate you're ceeding Sydney and Melbourne? Hmmm. I suspect Faith & Co would not approve.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#132

Post by d4m10n » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:09 am

Brive1987 wrote: And no one has yet demonstrated that politics isn’t entirely centred on collective identities.
What sort of demonstration do you require? Some sort of massive multi-ethnic metropolis heaving with diversity and thriving both culturally and financially despite mass-murderous attacks from regressive jihadists?
Brive1987 wrote: It appears some identity politics (collectives of oppression) are based on a retarded group identity.
Like those atheists who won't stop going on about discriminiation against their children?
Brive1987 wrote: Other politics, say nationalism or defence of western culture is simply forbidden but the rest is A-Ok.
Not forbidden, obviously.
Brive1987 wrote: By what definition is “classical-liberal-humanist” not an “identity”?
In order to affirm liberal humaninst principles, one need not belong to a specific group based on age, religion, social class, culture, dialect, disability, education, ethnicity, language, nationality, sex, gender identity, generation, occupation, profession, race, political party, sexual orientation, settlement, habitation, or veteran status.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#133

Post by Steersman » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:53 am

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: Still curious about how you would deal with extant populations in nominally white cities that may continue to out-reproduce the white population for some time. Creativity73 had a non-novel but effective approach, to give her undeserved credit.
Who is creativity73?

To be honest, I can’t see how demographic change in Sydney or Melbourne could be reversed.
Might I suggest massive "population transfers"? ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populatio ... and_Greece

Those who don't learn from the past and all that ...

Brive1987 wrote: However. The ridiculous inflow of culturally unaligned migrants has to stop. Even that is an economic and social policy decision that I suspect is beyond the urban elites. But once people are here the chain reaction is lit and simple solutions evaporate.

Assuming that’s sorted. :) We need policies to at least equalise birth rates.

I’d attempt to align migration where possible to culturally aligned nations, functional commonwealth ones.
I’d disincentive people attracted to social relief programs by removing said programs.
I’d encourage voluntary (assisted) return to country for any who lost interest in the OZ dream.
I’d tax ESL households who failed to meet language and culture tests per child to offset the introduced dysfunction.

I’d reward functional social units (families) with baby assistance packages, assuming they were both naturally born here (ie life long tax payers), married for two years and one partner in stable work.

And I’d implement the equivalent of a strong civics program at school that also stressed positive cultural embrace of “settlers” “explorers” ANZACs, painters/poets and storytellers. Heritage stuff. While resisting the tendency to celebrate cultural equivalency.

No magic bullet :rimshot:
The (New York) times, they are a-changin' ...



And even Merkel is belatedly reading the writing on the wall:



Merkel, to Survive, Agrees to Border Camps for Migrants

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#134

Post by Steersman » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:21 am

d4m10n wrote: <snip>
Brive1987 wrote: It appears some identity politics (collectives of oppression) are based on a retarded group identity.
Like those atheists who won't stop going on about discriminiation against their children?
Yeah, that is definitely a "problematic" identity - far too many "atheists" make a "religion" out of their rather self-righteous and intolerant "faith" that there are NO gods. Rather doubt they've ever ennumerated all the possibilities, much less proven that they couldn't possibly "exist".

Related to which, ran across an interesting if oldish review of Harris' End of Faith in The New Humanist; a relevant quote or two:
[Harris] undermines his war on unreasoning faith with the admission that "we cannot live by reason alone", and he looks to psychology and neuroscience to demonstrate that "we need not be unreasonable to suffuse our lives with love, compassion, ecstasy, and awe; nor must we renounce all forms of spirituality or mysticism to be on good terms with reason". Such sections seem to come from another book, perhaps reflecting Harris's current interest in neuroscience. They sit strangely with the deadly rationalism which would exterminate what he insists on calling 'faith'.

For this is the problem with The End of Faith: we all have faith of one sort or another. In a world which seems incapable of shaking off belief in real gods and devils, it takes a lot of faith to be a humanist. ....
Indeed.
d4m10n wrote: <snip>
Brive1987 wrote: By what definition is “classical-liberal-humanist” not an “identity”?
In order to affirm liberal humaninst principles, one need not belong to a specific group based on age, religion, social class, culture, dialect, disability, education, ethnicity, language, nationality, sex, gender identity, generation, occupation, profession, race, political party, sexual orientation, settlement, habitation, or veteran status.
Kind of begging the question, asserting - an ipse dixit - that "classical-liberal-humanist" can simply never be an "identity". Certainly seems plausible to argue or suggest that some of that group are overly narrow-minded and dogmatic, arguably the sine qua non of an "identity".

Which kind of raises the question of what that "essence" might be. And there's some justification for arguing that "my tribe, right or wrong" is part and parcel of it.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#135

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:41 pm

Creativity73, Brive, surely you remember-
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1459
Hmm, had a post dissapear on me. Anyway, this is Creativity73, she who bore seven children to shore up the white race and advocated for ethnostates. While I detest her ideology, one has to admire her commitment.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#136

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:36 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: Creativity73, Brive, surely you remember-
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1459
Hmm, had a post dissapear on me. Anyway, this is Creativity73, she who bore seven children to shore up the white race and advocated for ethnostates. While I detest her ideology, one has to admire her commitment.
She lacked nuance and measure. Commonsense must prevail, not zealousness.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#137

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:42 pm

Steersman wrote:
The (New York) times, they are a-changin' ...



And even Merkel is belatedly reading the writing on the wall:



Merkel, to Survive, Agrees to Border Camps for Migrants
Amazing how the same deliverables espoused by Lauren Southern et al cease to be hard right alter ight literal nazism when it becomes govt policy.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#138

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:50 pm

d4m10n wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: And no one has yet demonstrated that politics isn’t entirely centred on collective identities.
What sort of demonstration do you require? Some sort of massive multi-ethnic metropolis heaving with diversity and thriving both culturally and financially despite mass-murderous attacks from regressive jihadists?
Brive1987 wrote: It appears some identity politics (collectives of oppression) are based on a retarded group identity.
Like those atheists who won't stop going on about discriminiation against their children?
Brive1987 wrote: Other politics, say nationalism or defence of western culture is simply forbidden but the rest is A-Ok.
Not forbidden, obviously.
Brive1987 wrote: By what definition is “classical-liberal-humanist” not an “identity”?
In order to affirm liberal humaninst principles, one need not belong to a specific group based on age, religion, social class, culture, dialect, disability, education, ethnicity, language, nationality, sex, gender identity, generation, occupation, profession, race, political party, sexual orientation, settlement, habitation, or veteran status.
1. Show me politics waged by a party or group which is a non self identifying collective and which possesses no specific world view with which to attract adherents.

2. People organise by collectibles which a recognisable identity. Obviously identity politics isn’t the issue, the issue is the type of identity being espoused. The shrill scream of “IdentPol bad” is lazy rhetoric

3.To identify as a liberal humanist, one merely needs to identify with a philosophical scaffold which rejects the scaffold of competitor ideologies. Nothing collective there. :mrgreen: Kirb is a great example of Liberal Justice Warrior.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#139

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:51 pm

Damn this auto correct and my impatience

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#140

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:53 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: So, after the talk of ethnostate you're ceeding Sydney and Melbourne? Hmmm. I suspect Faith & Co would not approve.
It was a moment of weakness. After having just visited Melbourne, I’m prepared to offer that city up in compromise.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#141

Post by Guest_6371b3c0 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:48 am

Steersman wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:53 am
Might I suggest massive "population transfers"? ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populatio ... and_Greece
The always-reasonable Steersman is advocating for ethnically cleansing citizens in the supposedly tolerant west of 2018? What population are you going to exchange in this case, Steersbot? That event was ultimately done to save the Christians of Anatolia whose situation after the abortive attempts to carve up the remaining Ottoman empire was pretty precarious. What's your own scenario and pretext, dumberino?

You've posted that supposed parallel a million times but never gave an argument over it.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#142

Post by d4m10n » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:09 am

Brive1987 wrote: 1. Show me politics waged by a party or group which is a non self identifying collective and which possesses no specific world view with which to attract adherents.
It is almost tautologically true that groups of people who advocate for social causes will incorporate those causes into their ethics and worldview. Don't pretend this is the same thing as politics based on attributes which are (mostly) assigned at birth.
Brive1987 wrote: 2. People organise by collectibles which a recognisable identity. Obviously identity politics isn’t the issue, the issue is the type of identity being espoused. The shrill scream of “IdentPol bad” is lazy rhetoric.
It may be well be lazy, but that doesn't make it untrue. Would you say that ethnic and religious identity movements have done more good than harm, on the whole?
Brive1987 wrote: 3.To identify as a liberal humanist, one merely needs to identify with a philosophical scaffold which rejects the scaffold of competitor ideologies.
Not quite sure that you're getting at here. Which ideologies are competing for dominance in the post-Cold war world?

Liberalism? Nationalism? Xiism? Kimism?

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#143

Post by Guest_73eaf8de » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:40 am

The journey of some middle-aged men from attacking liberal identity politics "from a liberal standpoint" and then "turning" into right-wing ubernationalists on this site was a joy to behold. :popcorn:

Brive for admin. :twisted:

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#144

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:22 am

Guest_73eaf8de wrote: The journey of some middle-aged men from attacking liberal identity politics "from a liberal standpoint" and then "turning" into right-wing ubernationalists on this site was a joy to behold. :popcorn:

Brive for admin. :twisted:
Please create an account and sign in - so that your posts can be distinguished from any other anon drive-by poster. If you are going to post here, you might as well get down in the muck with the rest of us.

It's interesting to note that while Brive identifies (in his own words) as 'socially conservative' - he has not (to my knowledge) ever identified as left-wing or liberal (small 'l' liberal - as there is a right-wing Liberal political party in Australia). It becomes easier to track a journey from A to B - if you know where A was in the first place.

As to admin - The FT is fickle - the admin duties are assigned at his whim. In theory anyone could become an admin - even if (shock/horror) their politics differ from what might be considered acceptable (However that is judged).

Also, I think you'll find that many peoples view on politics change throughout their lifetime - even if they don't happen to be in the category of 'middle-aged men'. But things are fluid in the current year - so any of these defining features could change.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#145

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:07 am

Guest_73eaf8de wrote: The journey of some middle-aged men from attacking liberal identity politics "from a liberal standpoint" and then "turning" into right-wing ubernationalists on this site was a joy to behold. :popcorn:

Brive for admin. :twisted:
With a Grandfather in the Light Horse who served at Gallipoli (for all of six weeks before enteric fever) ...
A regular ANZAC Day attendee ...
A keen proponent of the family tradition of gathering around the Xmas Queens message ....
Parents from non-Brisbane Queensland who, as europhiles, took their kids OS in the 1970s before it was cool ...
Ex long term member of the Army Reserve
Keen student of (esp military) history
Church married in the early twenties and still married ...
Married into a South African family ....
Regular visitor to Europe who hasn’t been to Asia since the 1970s ...
Owner of a genuine MAGA hat
Father to a specially chosen pure white Siberian Samoyed....

Who the fuck do you think you are talking to? :lol:

Now son. The reason I detest PZ and his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects established social order. Rejects western culture. Redefines key words and concepts to self abased ideological ends.

Sure. It started off with shit flinging within the skeptic club house. Extended to gender and then the full kit of patriarchy and privilege. Now SJWism is going full racist against the white man and all vestiges of his existence.

You haven’t seen me change. I’m as mad and insane as ever. What’s changed is the breadth of the battlefield and the scope of conflict. Not the enemy.

What has also changed is that the left and left-middle of the so called “liberals” has been trump deranged into virtual SJWs. They are so scared of actually standing for something that then defines them that they are pushing back against the energised right. Regardless of this fulfilling the role of fifth columnist. Kirb. Is a case in point.

We saw this with the lack of defenders for Radford. We saw it with a failure to push back against doxing. And we are seeing it now on a more important stage.

Also. Get a fucking nym.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#146

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:48 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Guest_73eaf8de wrote: The journey of some middle-aged men from attacking liberal identity politics "from a liberal standpoint" and then "turning" into right-wing ubernationalists on this site was a joy to behold. :popcorn:

Brive for admin. :twisted:
With a Grandfather in the Light Horse who served at Gallipoli (for all of six weeks before enteric fever) ...
A regular ANZAC Day attendee ...
A keen proponent of the family tradition of gathering around the Xmas Queens message ....
Parents from non-Brisbane Queensland who, as europhiles, took their kids OS in the 1970s before it was cool ...
Ex long term member of the Army Reserve
Keen student of (esp military) history
Church married in the early twenties and still married ...
Married into a South African family ....
Regular visitor to Europe who hasn’t been to Asia since the 1970s ...
Owner of a genuine MAGA hat
Father to a specially chosen pure white Siberian Samoyed....

Who the fuck do you think you are talking to? :lol:

Now son. The reason I detest PZ and his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects established social order. Rejects western culture. Redefines key words and concepts to self abased ideological ends.

Sure. It started off with shit flinging within the skeptic club house. Extended to gender and then the full kit of patriarchy and privilege. Now SJWism is going full racist against the white man and all vestiges of his existence.

You haven’t seen me change. I’m as mad and insane as ever. What’s changed is the breadth of the battlefield and the scope of conflict. Not the enemy.

What has also changed is that the left and left-middle of the so called “liberals” has been trump deranged into virtual SJWs. They are so scared of actually standing for something that then defines them that they are pushing back against the energised right. Regardless of this fulfilling the role of fifth columnist. Kirb. Is a case in point.

We saw this with the lack of defenders for Radford. We saw it with a failure to push back against doxing. And we are seeing it now on a more important stage.

Also. Get a fucking nym.
I'm standing up for something that defines me: Enlightenment principles. I'm standing up to anti-Enlightenment SJWs, reactionary/conservative religious leaders, AND fascists and their apologists, from Dugin to Southern.

I define myself by my ideals and principles, not my ancestry, language, or culture.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#147

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:55 am

If your ideals are "tradition" for tradition's sake, MAGA hats and "white Australia", then you're not much different from an American Religious Righter, or a "moderate" quietist Salafi, and we never had much in common to begin with.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#148

Post by MarcusAu » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:04 am

Kirbmarc wrote: I'm standing up for something that defines me: Enlightenment principles. I'm standing up to anti-Enlightenment SJWs, reactionary/conservative religious leaders, AND fascists and their apologists, from Dugin to Southern.

I define myself by my ideals and principles, not my ancestry, language, or culture.
You seem to have lost your 'Pyt Admin status but on the other hand have been promoted to Lauren Southern's bette noire (and leader of the Kirb-ites). So it all evens out.

nb I know that the stuff here is only the half (or less) of what you do - ie you also exist on facebook and have a real life - so I'm not really getting the full picture.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#149

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:05 am

If you think that PoMo is just "rejecting tradition" then I guess that the entire Enlightenment is "PoMo". Voltaire, Montesquieu, Beccaria, Locke, Mill, they were all "PoMo".

Hell, Galileo rejected tradition. Maybe he was "PoMo" too. Maybe all of science is "PoMo"...

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#150

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:15 am

MarcusAu wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: I'm standing up for something that defines me: Enlightenment principles. I'm standing up to anti-Enlightenment SJWs, reactionary/conservative religious leaders, AND fascists and their apologists, from Dugin to Southern.

I define myself by my ideals and principles, not my ancestry, language, or culture.
You seem to have lost your 'Pyt Admin status but on the other hand have been promoted to Lauren Southern's bette noire (and leader of the Kirb-ites). So it all evens out.

nb I know that the stuff here is only the half (or less) of what you do - ie you also exist on facebook and have a real life - so I'm not really getting the full picture.
I'm also a dangerous fifth column.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#151

Post by Guest_73eaf8de » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:33 am

This gives credence to the idea floated about that part of the slymepit's reason of existence wasn't at all solely to correct the SJW left within still left-liberal principles but rather to aid the online culture war against the left and promote the nationalist/reactionary right in the long-run instead. I hadn't paid much attention to it in the past but I find it more and more interesting, especially since the site seems to be boiling off its more left of center/moderate members over time. Very interesting.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#152

Post by MarcusAu » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:41 am

Guest_73eaf8de wrote: This gives credence to the idea floated about that part of the slymepit's reason of existence wasn't at all solely to correct the SJW left within still left-liberal principles but rather to aid the online culture war against the left and promote the nationalist/reactionary right in the long-run instead. I hadn't paid much attention to it in the past but I find it more and more interesting, especially since the site seems to be boiling off its more left of center/moderate members over time. Very interesting.
And yet here you are. Have you even taken a political compass test to prove your bona fides?

Also, I'm not so sure that the 'Pyt has as great as an effect on the culture at large as you are hinting at.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#153

Post by Guest_73eaf8de » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:53 am

MarcusAu wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:41 am
And yet here you are. Have you even taken a political compass test to prove your bona fides?

Also, I'm not so sure that the 'Pyt has as great as an effect on the culture at large as you are hinting at.
Do not talk to me that way. Ok? Apologize now or else :nin:

I don't fully trust the political compass. It seems to shift even very right-wing communities much to the left, but their relative position seems accurate. It's better used that way rather than in isolation.

A lot of people are talking about the pyt. From God to Jordan to the pyt, as the higher-ups say.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#154

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:05 am

Guest_73eaf8de wrote: This gives credence to the idea floated about that part of the slymepit's reason of existence wasn't at all solely to correct the SJW left within still left-liberal principles but rather to aid the online culture war against the left and promote the nationalist/reactionary right in the long-run instead. I hadn't paid much attention to it in the past but I find it more and more interesting, especially since the site seems to be boiling off its more left of center/moderate members over time. Very interesting.
I don't think it was a deliberate plan.

The Pit was a politically heterogeneous space that shifted more and more to the right because of bigger events (Brexit, the victory of Donald Trump, etc.)

I think that this forum reflected society far more than it influenced it.

The SocJus has alienated a lot of people, but the non-SocJus leftists/liberal/centrist are, at least in the US, political orphans, since the Democrats are more and more "woke" and the only alternative is the far-right of Donald Trump.

The far right of course is taking advantage of the alienation that the "wokes" have produced to sell its own white identity politics.

If the left got rid of the "woke" stupidity they'd crush the far-right, and maybe get to actually implement some of the reforms they want instead of faffing about cultural appropriation, video games and insults on Twitter.

Maybe necessary police and prison reforms would be possible if they weren't sold as "abolishing the police and prisons". Maybe people would be more ready to talk about Neokeynesian economics of it wasn't called "smashing the Patriarchy". Maybe healthcare and welfare reforms would be more palatable without the idea it's all the fault of the Evil White Males.

The right is horrid, promises to become even worse, and is lying, manipulating, scare-mongering, race-baiting, and doing all sorts of dirty tricks. All true and dangerous.

But until the left learns to ditch the hatred for White Males and everything they do, say or want, until they stop the virtue-signalling, the demonizing of partial dissent, the purity tests, etc., for a lot of people either the right will look not so bad or they'll be disgusted by politics.

The Dems think they don't need the white male vote. This is a mistake. Maybe they'll win even with the SocJus, since Trump is such a trainwreck. But until they fix the SocJus it's only a matter of time before the next demagogue will pop up to use their stupidity against their plans.

Who knows, maybe the next one will be actually smart enough to appease his fan base without alienating moderates, and so be even worse than The Donald in the long run.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#155

Post by MarcusAu » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:42 pm

Guest_73eaf8de wrote:
Do not talk to me that way. Ok? Apologize now or else :nin:

I don't fully trust the political compass. It seems to shift even very right-wing communities much to the left, but their relative position seems accurate. It's better used that way rather than in isolation.

A lot of people are talking about the pyt. From God to Jordan to the pyt, as the higher-ups say.
This is not the correct protocol. :nin: is used when someone else sneaks in their response first. (cf 'Snap').

nb Dwelling I do in Abaddon - I don't put much stock in JP or that other guy you mention. Or even scuttlebutt.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#156

Post by Guest_6371b3c0 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:27 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:05 am
I don't think it was a deliberate plan.
I wasn't being that serious obviously but you have always been the resident autist after Steersbot. :geek: It shifted pretty organically but there's a perception of change in character to a relative outsider like me. It might be because the focus has also expanded/changed and the actual range of views came to the fore. And trust me :eusa-whistle: , I like identity politics or the poisonous communities formed around places like pharyngula (a similar but less organic, from a certain perspective, change for the worse over time) probably even less than you do, Kirb, don't have to tell me akhi.

I think you're overrating how "SocJus" the average centrist Democrat libtard is most of the time though. The general perception that the Republicans, something often simply borne out of their rhetoric towards Democrats, are better on the economy probably had the biggest role to play in the election as far as I'm concerned. I haven't seen anything to the contrary so far, but not to fully dismiss what you mentioned as factors. That's also why you need a strong non identity politics left as you mentioned.

Good post.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#157

Post by free thoughtpolice » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:14 pm

penis guest wrote:
The general perception that the Republicans, something often simply borne out of their rhetoric towards Democrats, are better on the economy probably had the biggest role to play in the election as far as I'm concerned.
They made the claims often enough that it became a fact in spite of reality. The Republican strategy has been "define your opponent". Just keep saying bad things about them and accurate or not often enough and enough people will believe it.
The way the word "liberal" has been turned into an insult is good example. Before 1980 or so and the Lee Atwater it had an entirely different usage.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#158

Post by KiwiInOz » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:16 pm

Guest_73eaf8de wrote: This gives credence to the idea floated about that part of the slymepit's reason of existence wasn't at all solely to correct the SJW left within still left-liberal principles but rather to aid the online culture war against the left and promote the nationalist/reactionary right in the long-run instead. I hadn't paid much attention to it in the past but I find it more and more interesting, especially since the site seems to be boiling off its more left of center/moderate members over time. Very interesting.
The Pit's purpose is a self-organising emergent property of providing a venue and forum (initially) for malcontents, conforming nonconformists, nonconforming conformists, and various stripes of flotsam and jetsam that (probably illegally) emigrated from Pharyngula to ERV's house for a party, and then needed more space.

The scale and intensity of debate, and its focus, depend on someone with a bee in their bonnet and apiarists of varying skill and ability offering to help them remove it. Yes, the Pit IS a haven for apiarists.

This week its civic nationalism and Clean Up Australia day, next week it will be discourses on the influence of smegma in romance poetry.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#159

Post by Steersman » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:25 pm

KiwiInOz wrote:
Guest_73eaf8de wrote: This gives credence to the idea floated about that part of the slymepit's reason of existence wasn't at all solely to correct the SJW left within still left-liberal principles but rather to aid the online culture war against the left and promote the nationalist/reactionary right in the long-run instead. I hadn't paid much attention to it in the past but I find it more and more interesting, especially since the site seems to be boiling off its more left of center/moderate members over time. Very interesting.
The Pit's purpose is a self-organising emergent property of providing a venue and forum (initially) for malcontents, conforming nonconformists, nonconforming conformists, and various stripes of flotsam and jetsam that (probably illegally) emigrated from Pharyngula to ERV's house for a party, and then needed more space.
:-) ERV's - and now the FT's - irregulars.
KiwiInOz wrote: The scale and intensity of debate, and its focus, depend on someone with a bee in their bonnet and apiarists of varying skill and ability offering to help them remove it. Yes, the Pit IS a haven for apiarists.
As George Patton is reported to have said, on surveying some battlefield carnage, "God forgive, but I love it so" ... ;-)
KiwiInOz wrote: This week its civic nationalism and Clean Up Australia day, next week it will be discourses on the influence of smegma in romance poetry.
A discussion that is bound to be of seminal importance, so to speak ...

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#160

Post by Steersman » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:56 pm

Guest_6371b3c0 wrote:
Steersman wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:53 am
Might I suggest massive "population transfers"? ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populatio ... and_Greece
The always-reasonable Steersman is advocating for ethnically cleansing citizens in the supposedly tolerant west of 2018? What population are you going to exchange in this case, Steersbot?
Glad that you appreciate that I'm always reasonable, even if you're not able to follow the threads. And tolerance isn't always a virtue:

PopperOnTolerance2.jpg
(52.31 KiB) Downloaded 81 times

And, if you had bothered to read the linked article - you do know how to do that, don't you? - then you might have concluded that it was only a variation on the theme of deportations. Which has a more or less venerable, if spotty, history. The salient examples being the supposed deportations of some million or so Mexicans from America in the 30s. And you might also note, as indicated by several of the articles I linked to above, that Merkel is more or less accepting the necessity of that, and the entire issue of DACA in the US is predicated on the same principle. There's no freaking universal right to immigrate into any particular country in the world, and those who have done so illegally or fraudulently or are "a danger to the community" are subject to being removed:

THE 1951 CONVENTION relating to the Statu s of Refugees AND ITS 1967 PROTOCOL.
Guest_6371b3c0 wrote: <snip> What's your own scenario and pretext, dumberino?
Maybe you could register so I could return the insults? Tit for tat and all that.
Guest_6371b3c0 wrote: You've posted that supposed parallel a million times but never gave an argument over it.
You might check out the Islam & Islamist thread where I've done precisely that in exhaustive if not exhausting detail:

search.php?keywords=immigration&terms=a ... mit=Search

A more specific example:
#272 Post by Steersman » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:33 pm
Apropos of another ("yes, another - quite your kvetching ...") wayward "truck of peace" and their equally demented drivers, Jerry Coyne has an interesting post up on the topic - In light of Barcelona, what, if anything, do we do about immigration? - which quotes extensively a post at Areo by one Ar Devine. Some relevant quotes from the former:
Coyne wrote: I don’t think there’s any number of Islamist terrorist attacks that will make people stop and think about the issue of immigration, which allows the entry of some people likely (or sworn) to commit such attacks. ...

Here Devine expresses the dilemma that many of us face, as our progressive liberalism conflicts with the knowledge that a regressive religion has an extremist wing that kills innocent people and is “hostile to liberal ideas”:
Devine wrote: The Jeremy Corbyns, Ken Livingstones, Cenk Uygurs, and Sally Kohns of this world and many of their supporters will grasp at anything but admit the truth that the Islamic faith has a problem with both violent and nonviolent extremism. When you want to talk about Islamic extremism they will bring up the fact that all religions have their extremists. This is undoubtedly true, but there is a qualitative difference between an extreme Mormon and his strange underwear collection and a Wahhabi hate preacher who believes Western women are whores who should be driven over and maimed beneath the axles of a speeding van. ...
....
Devine doesn’t offer a solution but does make two observations: that European politicians are largely ignoring the problem, and at their peril; and that there’s a general failure among liberals to discuss frankly the terrorism that’s plaguing Europe ....
"Population transfers" may be a rather "blunt" instrument of social policy, but absent some real changes in Islam - the chances of which are somewheres between vanishingly slim and none - I'd like to know what other solution you think is viable and has a chance of resolving the problem. That is, apart from Kirbmarc's predilection for Nero's solution - i.e., fiddling while Rome burns ... ;-)

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#161

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:05 pm

Guest_6371b3c0 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:05 am
I don't think it was a deliberate plan.
I wasn't being that serious obviously but you have always been the resident autist after Steersbot. :geek: It shifted pretty organically but there's a perception of change in character to a relative outsider like me. It might be because the focus has also expanded/changed and the actual range of views came to the fore. And trust me :eusa-whistle: , I like identity politics or the poisonous communities formed around places like pharyngula (a similar but less organic, from a certain perspective, change for the worse over time) probably even less than you do, Kirb, don't have to tell me akhi.

I think you're overrating how "SocJus" the average centrist Democrat libtard is most of the time though. The general perception that the Republicans, something often simply borne out of their rhetoric towards Democrats, are better on the economy probably had the biggest role to play in the election as far as I'm concerned. I haven't seen anything to the contrary so far, but not to fully dismiss what you mentioned as factors. That's also why you need a strong non identity politics left as you mentioned.

Good post.


You know what they say...it takes an autist to catch an autist, and that's why I'm the one who replied now much to Steerzo. :bjarte:

I don't think the average Democrat is a SJW, either. However the SocJus is a VERY vocal minority, especially on social media. They're also incredibly demanding and are accommodated to by the more rational people.

You don't need big numbers to influence a a party, just to be in the right place in the right time. Wastes of space like Lena Dunham schmooze with the higher ups of the Democratic Party, the SocJus lingo is widespread among liberal journalists, a grifter like Zoe "totally a game developer, even though I used a free software to edit text written by someone else" Quinn is celebrated and interviewed, the Hillary campaign spoke to that nutter Brianna "moon base" Wu.

The Reps love their antics, and with no "Sister Souljah" moment, no clear line in the sand, they have an easy job portraying the entire Democratic Party as those who want the end of White Cis Hetero Males.

The GOP is also full of nuts, in greater numbers than the Dems, but their brands of idiocy are easier to sell to the general public: religious nuts are socially accepted, you need some kind of scientific education to understand that the anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers are nuts, and the alt-right is very good at playing coy and look superficially reasonable or at least not as extreme as they really are.

The SocJus instead is all too happy to shout that you're a Fucking White Male, that White Women Voted For Trump, that Cis Scum Needs to Die, that everyone who's not one of them is a Racist White Supremacist Rapist.

Their nuttery is a lot less socially accepted and less hard to see than the GOP nuts, at least for the targets of their insults.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#162

Post by Brive1987 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:06 am

Kirbmarc wrote: If you think that PoMo is just "rejecting tradition" then I guess that the entire Enlightenment is "PoMo". Voltaire, Montesquieu, Beccaria, Locke, Mill, they were all "PoMo".

Hell, Galileo rejected tradition. Maybe he was "PoMo" too. Maybe all of science is "PoMo"...
Yeah. That’s clearly how I defined Pomo. For a chap clever in some areas, you can sure underperform spectacularly on occasion.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#163

Post by Kirbmarc » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:45 am

brive1987 wrote:
kirbmarc wrote: If you think that pomo is just "rejecting tradition" then I guess that the entire Enlightenment is "pomo". Voltaire, Montesquieu, Beccaria, Locke, Mill, they were all "pomo".

Hell, Galileo rejected tradition. Maybe he was "pomo" too. Maybe all of science is "pomo"...
Yeah. that’s clearly how i defined Pomo. For a chap clever in some areas, you can sure underperform spectacularly on occasion.
Quoted verbatim:
The reason I detest PZvand his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects the established social order. Rejects western culture.
What exactly is the tradition, established social order and Western culture you're talking about is left undefined. You make no mention of Enlightenment principles, liberal democracy, human rights. You don't cite any examples about the values you want to defend.

This wouldn't be a problem if you had defined your positions before, but they're clear as mud. You have defended and praised Aleksandr Dugin, who's very much against liberal democracy and the Enlightenment. You have praised people who are science deniers, like the alt-right, full of climate change deniers, anti-vaxxers, InfoWars conspiracy theorists, etc. You have spread neoreactionary memes like the Romanov remembrance. You have criticized liberal reforms like gay marriage.

In other times the Enlightenment figures were also accused of rejecting traditions and the established social order, which was true to a large degree. The innovation of yesterday is the tradition of today, and the social order seen as revolutionary years ago is established right now.

So what exactly do you want to defend? You don't have a clear answer, and neither does the alt-right. Indeed it's a hodgepodge of neoreactionaries, anti-democracy and anti-Enlightenment figures, English and American conservatives (who are different from each other), nostalgics, paranoids conspiracy nuts, and fascists.

The lack of a common political philosophy based on Enlightenment principles is a HUGE issue for the right AND the left. Anti-Enlightenment philosophers like Heidegger, Nietzche, Evola, Guenon are just as against liberal democracy and in favor of authoritarianism as Salafi clerics.

Indeed both the PoMo and the NeoRex are inspired by Heidegger. Derrida and Mencius Moldbug share the same criticisms of Enlightenment principles. The SocJus and the Alt-Right are both tied to anti-Enlightenment identity politics.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#164

Post by Kirbmarc » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:57 am

This is NOT a merely academic matter. Political decisions are tied to political philosophies. The strong anti-democratic, anti-Enlightenment element in the alt-right influences their decisions about immigration, abortion, LGBT rights, etc.

The influences of Nietzsche on Spengler and his "twilight of the west" theory influence the "clash of civilizations" Huntingtonian theory, which is the basis of the political project of people like Steve Bannon.

"Tradition" is a highly ambiguous term. It can mean anything, from the US constitution to Enlightenment principles to the "good old days" to the religious dogmas of fundamentalist Christianity to the fascist mythology of ethnicities and their historic destinty to reactionary monarchic/oligarchic projects.

Indeed there's all sorts of people in the "identitarian" camp. They're often giving confused messages, mixing "blood and soil" with "classical liberalism". The only thing they seem to have in common is attacking anything left of center.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#165

Post by Steersman » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:29 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Guest_6371b3c0 wrote: <snip>

I think you're overrating how "SocJus" the average centrist Democrat libtard is most of the time though. The general perception that the Republicans, something often simply borne out of their rhetoric towards Democrats, are better on the economy probably had the biggest role to play in the election as far as I'm concerned. I haven't seen anything to the contrary so far, but not to fully dismiss what you mentioned as factors. That's also why you need a strong non identity politics left as you mentioned.

Good post.


You know what they say...it takes an autist to catch an autist, and that's why I'm the one who replied now much to Steerzo. :bjarte:
Yes, quite true there Kirbsnark .... ;) Birds of a feather and all that. Though expected you to have a bit more substance than trivial insults.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#166

Post by Steersman » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:56 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
brive1987 wrote: <snip>

The reason I detest PZvand his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects the established social order. Rejects western culture.
<snip>

So what exactly do you want to defend? You don't have a clear answer, and neither does the alt-right. Indeed it's a hodgepodge of neoreactionaries, anti-democracy and anti-Enlightenment figures, English and American conservatives (who are different from each other), nostalgics, paranoids conspiracy nuts, and fascists.

The lack of a common political philosophy based on Enlightenment principles is a HUGE issue for the right AND the left. Anti-Enlightenment philosophers like Heidegger, Nietzche, Evola, Guenon are just as against liberal democracy and in favor of authoritarianism as Salafi clerics.

Indeed both the PoMo and the NeoRex are inspired by Heidegger. Derrida and Mencius Moldbug share the same criticisms of Enlightenment principles. The SocJus and the Alt-Right are both tied to anti-Enlightenment identity politics.
Generally some sound arguments there. However, while I too certainly question much of postmodernism - at least as many see it; have even written a published article about it ;-) - I kind of get the impression that, as with the sex and gender "debate", far too many don't really understand or are aware of the "principles" behind it, some of which may actually have some justification. As with much of feminism, some of the principles may be sound but many of the consequential arguments can be badly flawed. But, more particularly:
While encompassing a wide variety of approaches, postmodernism is generally defined by an attitude of skepticism, irony, or rejection toward the meta-narratives and ideologies of modernism, often calling into question various assumptions of Enlightenment rationality.[5] Consequently, common targets of postmodern critique include universalist notions of objective reality, morality, truth, human nature, reason, language, and social progress.[5] Postmodern thinkers frequently call attention to the contingent or socially-conditioned nature of knowledge claims and value systems, situating them as products of particular political, historical, or cultural discourses and hierarchies.[5] Accordingly, postmodern thought is broadly characterized by tendencies to self-referentiality, epistemological and moral relativism, pluralism, subjectivism, and irreverence.[5]
Some "flies" in the ointment of "reason and language and social progress", but that doesn't mean that they're entirely invalid, or not worth putting some weight on. As you probably know, Søren Kierkegaard wrote Either/Or - and for which he was apparently tormented by street urchins - but, while such *binary* weighting has its value, it frequently degenerates into false dichotomies which tend to be "problematic". A case in point:


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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#167

Post by Brive1987 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:57 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
brive1987 wrote:
kirbmarc wrote: If you think that pomo is just "rejecting tradition" then I guess that the entire Enlightenment is "pomo". Voltaire, Montesquieu, Beccaria, Locke, Mill, they were all "pomo".

Hell, Galileo rejected tradition. Maybe he was "pomo" too. Maybe all of science is "pomo"...
Yeah. that’s clearly how i defined Pomo. For a chap clever in some areas, you can sure underperform spectacularly on occasion.
Quoted verbatim:
The reason I detest PZvand his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects the established social order. Rejects western culture.
Don’t be a cunt. You somehow “forgot” to include something didn’t you. I wonder how often you perform this is trick in less obvious circumstance.
Now son. The reason I detest PZ and his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects established social order. Rejects western culture. Redefines key words and concepts to self abased ideological ends.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#168

Post by Kirbmarc » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:03 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
brive1987 wrote:
kirbmarc wrote: If you think that pomo is just "rejecting tradition" then I guess that the entire Enlightenment is "pomo". Voltaire, Montesquieu, Beccaria, Locke, Mill, they were all "pomo".

Hell, Galileo rejected tradition. Maybe he was "pomo" too. Maybe all of science is "pomo"...
Yeah. that’s clearly how i defined Pomo. For a chap clever in some areas, you can sure underperform spectacularly on occasion.
Quoted verbatim:
The reason I detest PZvand his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects the established social order. Rejects western culture.
Don’t be a cunt. You somehow “forgot” to include something didn’t you. I wonder how often you perform this is trick in less obvious circumstance.
Now son. The reason I detest PZ and his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects established social order. Rejects western culture. Redefines key words and concepts to self abased ideological ends.
Is the part I didn't quote relevant to the arguments I made?

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#169

Post by Steersman » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:04 pm

Brive1987 wrote: <snip>

Don’t be a cunt. You somehow “forgot” to include something didn’t you. I wonder how often you perform this is trick in less obvious circumstance.
Now son. The reason I detest PZ and his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects established social order. Rejects western culture. Redefines key words and concepts to self abased ideological ends.
Though, of course, not at all like redefining "genocide" for "self abased ideological ends" (?) ... ;-)

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#170

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:04 am

So, seriously Brive, what are you going to do if your kids bring home a nice muslim boy or Chinese gal? Will you be defending white Australia?

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#171

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:10 am

Ken White is often an insufferable asshole. But sometimes with something to say.
https://www.popehat.com/2008/07/04/the-fourth-of-july/

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#172

Post by Lsuoma » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:37 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: So, seriously Brive, what are you going to do if your kids bring home a nice muslim boy or Chinese gal? Will you be defending white Australia?
Wouldn't that likely be bona fide evidence of willingness to integrate?

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#173

Post by MarcusAu » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:43 am

...or at least misegenate.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#174

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:29 pm

Steersman wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: <snip>

Don’t be a cunt. You somehow “forgot” to include something didn’t you. I wonder how often you perform this is trick in less obvious circumstance.
Now son. The reason I detest PZ and his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects established social order. Rejects western culture. Redefines key words and concepts to self abased ideological ends.
Though, of course, not at all like redefining "genocide" for "self abased ideological ends" (?) ... ;-)
The definitional issue is neither mine nor, for that matter, the alt rights.
https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?h ... tion&btnG=

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#175

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:32 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Is the part I didn't quote relevant to the arguments I made?
Damned right it is.

Kirb: “If you think that pomo is just "rejecting tradition" then I guess ...”. And “quoting verbatim ...”

You are a hack.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#176

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:48 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: So, seriously Brive, what are you going to do if your kids bring home a nice muslim boy or Chinese gal? Will you be defending white Australia?
“When did you stop beating your wife”

My boy has Muslim connections via Arabic and his school was significantly Chinese. My daughter is shoulders deep in SJ school delivered rhetoric. They even tried to take them on an excursion to a mosque until the parents revolted after hearing they would have to be covered head to toe in summer sports tracksuits. No bubbles here. The prospect is real. Though I doubt the Muslim/trad Chinese parents would be thrilled.

What “you guys” are confusing is the personal from the mass trend. There may be 600,000 smiling [fill in the gap] immigrants. At a certain point their individual amiability will be moot. We will have parallel societies as is happening now. Chinese banks and real estate agents. A marked shift in how education is perceived as “tiger parents” monopolise select schools, leveraging 6 day a week high pressure coaching. A move to accepting high density living as a preferred norm. We will have more, increasingly unanswerable, questions raised about the relevance of Queen/National Days/monuments/historical perception. I could go on. Essentially a veneer of a civic society with multiple silos and a marked resistance against the perceived institutional bias of the host silo - leading to “choose halal” style virtue signalling.

So if / when the kids bring home their friend. I will be polite and probably genuinely like the individual. Even more than the pompous trad polish chick who is now history. But I won’t see it as offsetting the broader trend.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#177

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:02 pm

Lsuoma wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: So, seriously Brive, what are you going to do if your kids bring home a nice muslim boy or Chinese gal? Will you be defending white Australia?
Wouldn't that likely be bona fide evidence of willingness to integrate?
On a personal level, yes. It would (perhaps) indicate a willingness to find accommodation between the cultures of two families.

Though that Polish chick did her dollars where she tried to tell my wife that her culture on Xmas Eve, trumped our family tradition of carols at the cathedral so son would be unavailable as a consequence. :lol: :lol:

More broadly speaking. Integration is no longer the goal of immigration. Multiculturalism, by definition, does not acknowledge any primary host culture to integrate into beyond very base vanilla civic values. In fact the “multi” component defines the right of cultures to not integrate where there are distinctive cultural (as opposed to legal) differences.

“Integration” is smoke blown to distract. No one actually announced the change in definition when it occurred in the mid 1970s, the emergence of the civic nation was a stealthly organic process.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#178

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:07 pm

Define “French”. Is it skin colour? Am I French then?

Or is it something less obvious?



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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#179

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:35 pm


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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#180

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:13 pm

Part of her Xmas 2017 gallop that led to her rebasing and focusing on Canadian topics.

Her points, stripped of breathless enthusiastic word salad are:

This is not a high point in western culture - standard pop / decline argument of a loss of Westerrn “cultural consensus”
There is no strong obvious cultural identity to demand immigrants to assimilate into vis-a-vis their byo kit. > Indisputable
SJ Pomo is further mitigating against any bold assertions. Be it role of family, flag or any other institution. > Indisputable.
Civic nationalism has thus even confused host citizens about who they are as a national collective. > I see that everyday.
All this is leading to further disorder. > Seems to follow.

All reasonable questions / concerns.

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