The Ethnostate Thread!

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#241

Post by free thoughtpolice » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:55 am

How about Greek/Ukranian (alleged) Goldy. Even a notch below the dreaded bohunk.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#242

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:02 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: How about Greek/Ukranian (alleged) Goldy. Even a notch below the dreaded bohunk.
Goldy is a Christian supremacist not a white supremacist. Her dark skin is tolerated since she shoots big guns and loves Jesus. Pale-faced atheists are getting the boot, too.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#243

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:25 pm

While I am not anti-immigration per se, I think it needs to be curbed. And most importantly, you gotta screen the bastards.


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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#244

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:43 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: How about Greek/Ukranian (alleged) Goldy. Even a notch below the dreaded bohunk.
Goldy is a Christian supremacist not a white supremacist. Her dark skin is tolerated since she shoots big guns and loves Jesus. Pale-faced atheists are getting the boot, too.
Greeks have been the traditional bulwark of the West against the nasties from Asia Minor and beyond.


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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#245

Post by MarcusAu » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:52 pm

Seems a bit gay.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#246

Post by Brive1987 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:21 am

MarcusAu wrote: Seems a bit gay.
That was Sparta.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#247

Post by free thoughtpolice » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:46 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: How about Greek/Ukranian (alleged) Goldy. Even a notch below the dreaded bohunk.
Goldy is a Christian supremacist not a white supremacist. Her dark skin is tolerated since she shoots big guns and loves Jesus. Pale-faced atheists are getting the boot, too.
Greeks have been the traditional bulwark of the West against the nasties from Asia Minor and beyond.

Not according to the to the traditional racists of North America and Western Europe. Greeks and Slavs have belonged on a lower rung of the ladder than those of western European descent.
Besides, the bloody Turks ruled Greece for centuries and have polluted their gene pool. Faith Goldy really doesn't look terribly white to me. She looks more middle eastern or Asian by her hair,skin, and eye colors as well as her features. Her lips look african and by the looks of her forehead she could easily be Kirbmarc's cousin.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#248

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:01 am

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: How about Greek/Ukranian (alleged) Goldy. Even a notch below the dreaded bohunk.
Goldy is a Christian supremacist not a white supremacist. Her dark skin is tolerated since she shoots big guns and loves Jesus. Pale-faced atheists are getting the boot, too.
Greeks have been the traditional bulwark of the West against the nasties from Asia Minor and beyond.

Not according to the to the traditional racists of North America and Western Europe. Greeks and Slavs have belonged on a lower rung of the ladder than those of western European descent.
Besides, the bloody Turks ruled Greece for centuries and have polluted their gene pool. Faith Goldy really doesn't look terribly white to me. She looks more middle eastern or Asian by her hair,skin, and eye colors as well as her features. Her lips look african and by the looks of her forehead she could easily be Kirbmarc's cousin.
I've always understood the Ancient Greeks to be more European and modern Greece to be Western rather than strictly white. Playing the ethnostate game, my grandfather considered both Greeks and Italians to be non-white, and had his doubts about the French. It's tribalism all the way down, ain't it?

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#249

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:13 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: How about Greek/Ukranian (alleged) Goldy. Even a notch below the dreaded bohunk.
Goldy is a Christian supremacist not a white supremacist. Her dark skin is tolerated since she shoots big guns and loves Jesus. Pale-faced atheists are getting the boot, too.
Greeks have been the traditional bulwark of the West against the nasties from Asia Minor and beyond.

So usually in movies they leave their helmets off so that the lead characters are identifiable to the audience. Here they leave the helmets on but take off the cuirass to show off how ripped they are. Bold choice for ladies and fans of homoerotic scenes, but I'm surprised a student of history would enjoy it overly much. Not to mention many other glaring historical faults, but I suppose that not having seen the rest of the movie, it may be all part of the magic for all I know.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#250

Post by Reading_Steiner » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:14 am

If you want historical accuracy, I'm afraid you shouldn't come anywhere close to a TV screen... Hell, even many documentaries are absolute crap in terms of realism.

And it's always fun for me to hear the white nationalists rejecting the Greeks, Italians etc as not really white while wanking over their European heritage. If anything, European culture is based on Greco-Roman culture and Judeo-Christian culture, which would make protestant Germans and Anglo-Saxons, who rebelled against Roman Catholicism, less European than the Greeks, Italians, Bulgarians or Russians lol. There are often arguments that Russia, Greece etc aren't European... Hell, if any big country of the continent should be criticised as "not being culturally European enough", it would be the Germanic countries, and not the Slavs and Greeks!

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#251

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:33 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: I've always understood the Ancient Greeks to be more European and modern Greece to be Western rather than strictly white. Playing the ethnostate game, my grandfather considered both Greeks and Italians to be non-white, and had his doubts about the French. It's tribalism all the way down, ain't it?
Yes. And not only in the US, but in the entire world. You may have heard of the moronic idea that "there's no racial prejudice in islam". It's an utter lie. Not only are Arabs or Iranians or Turks or Chechen or Bosniaks or South East Asians very racist against sub-Saharan Africans, but also each and every one of those groups hate each other's guts. And even among Arabs there's A LOT of tribalism between Middle Easterners and North Africans. To say nothing of Arabs vs. Berbers.

It's tribalism all the way down everywhere. Every tribe hates their neighboring tribes, it's always been like this, and it's only in industrialized, rich countries that people start to see inter-tribal prejudice/anger as a social problem, mostly because in industrialized societies you're forced to move, to leave your homogeneous village and come in contract with people of a different ancestry and origin.

I'm not saying this to argue that industrialized countries are immune to racism or tribalism, that would be an incredibly stupid argument to make. But in those countries racism/tribalism is at least SEEN as a problem, at least by a lot of people who travel around and have many intra-tribal contacts. In "traditional" societies tribalism is THE NORM, it's not accepted but it's never even questioned.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#252

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:03 pm

"it's not ONLY accepted"

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#253

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:00 pm

It’s almost as if In-group preference is built into the system for some reason.

As we enlightened ones jettison this mechanism, I hope the rest of the tribes get the memo.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#254

Post by MarcusAu » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:19 am

Brive1987 wrote: almost as if In-group preference is built into the system for some reason.

As we enlightened ones jettison this mechanism, I hope the rest of the tribes get the memo.
I don't recall voting to end slavery. You'll have to give the credit (or blame) for that to the parties involved.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#255

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:17 am

Hmm. I missed a turn on this conversation.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#256

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:33 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: How about Greek/Ukranian (alleged) Goldy. Even a notch below the dreaded bohunk.
Goldy is a Christian supremacist not a white supremacist. Her dark skin is tolerated since she shoots big guns and loves Jesus. Pale-faced atheists are getting the boot, too.
Greeks have been the traditional bulwark of the West against the nasties from Asia Minor and beyond.

So usually in movies they leave their helmets off so that the lead characters are identifiable to the audience. Here they leave the helmets on but take off the cuirass to show off how ripped they are. Bold choice for ladies and fans of homoerotic scenes, but I'm surprised a student of history would enjoy it overly much. Not to mention many other glaring historical faults, but I suppose that not having seen the rest of the movie, it may be all part of the magic for all I know.
300 is a superb movie.

It is told in the form of traditional Greek oral history via a narrator on the eve of Plataea. The requisite moral lessons are delivered via appropriately (for the time) exaggerated metaphor - Spartan idealism vs mythic barbarian horror. Very Heroditarian. And a nice encapsulation of the Lacedaemonian mythology that was already formed by the Peloponnesian War.

If the exaggeration and stylized story telling offends as unhistorical, well then I suggest (ever so politely) that you don't "get it".

Of course the vehicle may not be to taste - but that's simple preference at play.

If you consider it merely an uncouth racist morality play, set against the Iraqi War, then I'd posit that the historical perception of a clash of civilizations has merely found a mirror separated by 2500 years.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#257

Post by MarcusAu » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:44 am

Brive1987 wrote: to end slavery. You'll have to give the credit (or blame) for that to the parties involved.
Oh well, I hope you still got the shag.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#258

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:19 am

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: How about Greek/Ukranian (alleged) Goldy. Even a notch below the dreaded bohunk.
Goldy is a Christian supremacist not a white supremacist. Her dark skin is tolerated since she shoots big guns and loves Jesus. Pale-faced atheists are getting the boot, too.
Greeks have been the traditional bulwark of the West against the nasties from Asia Minor and beyond.

So usually in movies they leave their helmets off so that the lead characters are identifiable to the audience. Here they leave the helmets on but take off the cuirass to show off how ripped they are. Bold choice for ladies and fans of homoerotic scenes, but I'm surprised a student of history would enjoy it overly much. Not to mention many other glaring historical faults, but I suppose that not having seen the rest of the movie, it may be all part of the magic for all I know.
300 is a superb movie.

It is told in the form of traditional Greek oral history via a narrator on the eve of Plataea. The requisite moral lessons are delivered via appropriately (for the time) exaggerated metaphor - Spartan idealism vs mythic barbarian horror. Very Heroditarian. And a nice encapsulation of the Lacedaemonian mythology that was already formed by the Peloponnesian War.

If the exaggeration and stylized story telling offends as unhistorical, well then I suggest (ever so politely) that you don't "get it".

Of course the vehicle may not be to taste - but that's simple preference at play.

If you consider it merely an uncouth racist morality play, set against the Iraqi War, then I'd posit that the historical perception of a clash of civilizations has merely found a mirror separated by 2500 years.
I'm a bit confused. Didn't the battle of Thermopylae take place a good long while before the Peloponnesian war? Thus making the encapsulation mythology a bit forward-looking for any potential witness-narrator.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#259

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:16 am

TBF, I had planned on seeing the movie when it came out, I was even enthused. But then I received a catalog of replica swords, as before my injuries I did both fencing and historical combat (Not the silly creative anachronism stuff.) Now my thing was more late medieval and renaissance, but I'm not entirely ignorant of the Ancient world. And I see this sword, looks like an orcish falchion, but no, it's advertised as king Leonidis' sword. Not a xiphon or a kopis, that lovely predecessor to one of my favorite blade styles, the kukri. I was displeased. Then I see the trailer with bare-chested men doing a choreographed dance thing, and I lost more enthusiasm.

Finally it comes out, and I ask a friend who saw it how it was. He says pretty good, 300 people all alone fighting off "like a million." I say "What about the Thespians?" and he says, confused, "Well, there's Gerard Butler..."

So I figured it's another fantasy movie with the thin respectability of history frosted over it. Maybe I'll give it a watch later.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#260

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:30 am

As to the clash of civilizations, well, Sparta was mainly a warlike part of Greece rather than the ideal of western civilization. Sparta left a fighting legacy, and when they weren't busy killing other Greeks they were certainly useful in defending Hellenic civilization, but I do believe more of the rich legacy of western values came more from Athens. Had Sparta been the sole Greek power, what of art, literature or philosophy would have made it into the western Canon? I'm not doubting their bravery, but their value seems more as security for or a foil for Greek civilization rather than defenders of western values. They had a repressive government that was barely better than the Persians.

I would take the Battle of Marathon to be more fitting in the metaphor for clashing cultures. Athens was more advanced in everything but land warfare and far more "western" than Sparta.

My two cents.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#261

Post by Kirbmarc » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:46 am

Stephen Molyneaux, Lauren Southern's partner in crime in the Land Down Under, is triggered by children's books:
Oh, NO! There are books that teach to children that their new neighbors might be foreigners! THE HORROR! THE HORROR! :twatson:

I thought Anita Sarkeesian was an idiot, but compared to these "white identity" morons she was freaking Einstein.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#262

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:55 am

Kirbmarc wrote: Stephen Molyneaux, Lauren Southern's partner in crime in the Land Down Under, is triggered by children's books:
Oh, NO! There are books that teach to children that their new neighbors might be foreigners! THE HORROR! THE HORROR! :twatson:

I thought Anita Sarkeesian was an idiot, but compared to these "white identity" morons she was freaking Einstein.
Unless you've got a bamboo grove, pandas are going to be a lot less trouble than bears. But the books are trash and trite, obvious lessons that usually appeal to grownups buying "helpful" books for kids. I also hate how momma bear is almost always wise and enlightened, and it's poppa bear who always gotta learn his lesson.
My kids got loads of them as presents, but they didn't care much for them. So many kid's books are designed more to extract a purchase from an adult rather than enjoyment from the child.

But, I get your point. Each side is getting worked up about trivialities so they have ammunition to virtue signal. I'll bet SJWs could also get worked up about the book, starting with the curious panda choice.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#263

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:56 pm

Fucking Pandas are scum. :animals-bear:

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#264

Post by Kirbmarc » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:41 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: Stephen Molyneaux, Lauren Southern's partner in crime in the Land Down Under, is triggered by children's books:
Oh, NO! There are books that teach to children that their new neighbors might be foreigners! THE HORROR! THE HORROR! :twatson:

I thought Anita Sarkeesian was an idiot, but compared to these "white identity" morons she was freaking Einstein.
Unless you've got a bamboo grove, pandas are going to be a lot less trouble than bears. But the books are trash and trite, obvious lessons that usually appeal to grownups buying "helpful" books for kids. I also hate how momma bear is almost always wise and enlightened, and it's poppa bear who always gotta learn his lesson.
My kids got loads of them as presents, but they didn't care much for them. So many kid's books are designed more to extract a purchase from an adult rather than enjoyment from the child.

But, I get your point. Each side is getting worked up about trivialities so they have ammunition to virtue signal. I'll bet SJWs could also get worked up about the book, starting with the curious panda choice.
Look at those transmisogynistic, heteronormative, patriarchal families! All with mothers and fathers, all cis scum! /SJW

Yeah, I don't really give a crap about the books, they're likely mawkish, stupidly written, contrived and simplistic like many books for children, that's why kids hate them.

As you say it's the inanity of the thing which is bitterly funny. When Sarky and McIntosh acted outraged that we couldn't see Batman's ass in a video game everyone laughed at them.

Now this dingbat is outraged at the Berenstain Bears, and even tries to whip up some scaremongering.

Sarkeesian at least only pushed the idea that the video game industry catered to the Evil NerdBoys, which is moronic but not conspiracy fodder. The fans of Molyneux
already blame Jewiz Conzpirazies in their tweets. That's hilariously retarded.

My point is that no matter how hard the alt-right, alt-lite, alt-whatever TRY to appear as Serious Thinkers with Big Thoughts about Real Concerns, they're actually just as stupid, crazy, petty and childish as the Dangerhair FemiNazis they hate so much, or worse.

They get triggered by movies, books, stories, just like the SocJus. It's comedy gold when you think about it, especially since the alt-righters love to brag about their strength and resilience. Then a children's books gsts them antsy.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#265

Post by Kirbmarc » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:49 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: Fucking Pandas are scum. :animals-bear:
You racist Trumpy Bear :twatson:

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#266

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:50 pm

Kirbmarc wrote: Stephen Molyneaux, Lauren Southern's partner in crime in the Land Down Under, is triggered by children's books:

[twe.et][/tweet]

Oh, NO! There are books that teach to children that their new neighbors might be foreigners! THE HORROR! THE HORROR! :twatson:

I thought Anita Sarkeesian was an idiot, but compared to these "white identity" morons she was freaking Einstein.
Simple stories, fairy tales, suited for children’s comprehension if not learning. Think Brady Bunch.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#267

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:52 pm

“Now this dingbat is outraged at the Berenstain Bears”

Sorry. That tweet was an arched eyebrow. You need to manage your own red curtain.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#268

Post by Kirbmarc » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:55 pm

Brive1987 wrote: “Now this dingbat is outraged at the Berenstain Bears”

Sorry. That tweet was an arched eyebrow. You need to manage your own red curtain.
Triggered by the Berenstain Bears. What a snowflake. :bjarte:

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#269

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:23 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: TBF, I had planned on seeing the movie when it came out, I was even enthused. But then I received a catalog of replica swords, as before my injuries I did both fencing and historical combat (Not the silly creative anachronism stuff.) Now my thing was more late medieval and renaissance, but I'm not entirely ignorant of the Ancient world. And I see this sword, looks like an orcish falchion, but no, it's advertised as king Leonidis' sword. Not a xiphon or a kopis, that lovely predecessor to one of my favorite blade styles, the kukri. I was displeased. Then I see the trailer with bare-chested men doing a choreographed dance thing, and I lost more enthusiasm.

Finally it comes out, and I ask a friend who saw it how it was. He says pretty good, 300 people all alone fighting off "like a million." I say "What about the Thespians?" and he says, confused, "Well, there's Gerard Butler..."

So I figured it's another fantasy movie with the thin respectability of history frosted over it. Maybe I'll give it a watch later.
The allies are there. Nicely colour coded. Because it’s a Spartan myth being told they play an appropriately supporting role.

I don’t know about the sword, but they got the othmisos right, if stylised, per the Anderson, Hanson, Luginbill school. The blade looked like a chopping weapon and was used as such. So I gave it a pass.

I take your point re Pelop. War. But the movie is more complex thematically than an an accurate representation of what would have been said on eve of battle 479 BC. It takes the contemporary myth of Lycurgian Sparta (the place was already a Disneyland for Roman tourists pre-AD), the elements of Herodotus (the entire scary and barbaric world waging war on Hellas, suns covered by arrows, “come and get em” etc ) and the exaggeration and metaphor of pub tales oral history which is intent on ramming home teachable moments.

So no. Nothing is, by intent, “historical” . There are wild Persian war creatures. The evil Ephialtes is depicted as a disgusting Gollum like hunchback, Turkish Persian atrocities are like something out of Warhammer, Xerxes is a literally larger than life Demi God. The pass / gates are massively stylised as characters in their own right. The battle scenes are heavy, continuous and every classical scholar’s secret wet dream.

The whole vibe has intentionally replicated the Heavy Metal quality of the original graphic novel. Done realistically, the actual social currency of the thing would have been lost.

But. The framework is there. You have the Spartan diffidence in going to war, the strong but trad Spartan women, the Ephors /Gerousia machinations and the Oracle’s warnings. You have the agōgē and the tendency for Spartan traitors to head for Persian gold. You have the building of the Phocian wall etc etc.

But I reckon a lot of people simply said “what a gay, unrealistic, violent, tedious travesty of real life. And West Pointers love the story so it’s probaly Nazi as well.”

Meh.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#270

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:25 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: “Now this dingbat is outraged at the Berenstain Bears”

Sorry. That tweet was an arched eyebrow. You need to manage your own red curtain.
Triggered by the Berenstain Bears. What a snowflake. :bjarte:
“Posted without comment”. Least seismic trigger ever. How many tweets has he done?

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#271

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:37 pm

In short. If you are already “into” and across this period of history and Herodotus and have an awareness of the Spartan myth topic then it will probably resonate on a visceral but higher level than the overt action / graphics deserve. If you expect a Saving Private Ryan or want a quick injection of ancient history or a contained Game of Thrones / Return of the King you are probably stuffed.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#272

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:42 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: As to the clash of civilizations, well, Sparta was mainly a warlike part of Greece rather than the ideal of western civilization. Sparta left a fighting legacy, and when they weren't busy killing other Greeks they were certainly useful in defending Hellenic civilization, but I do believe more of the rich legacy of western values came more from Athens. Had Sparta been the sole Greek power, what of art, literature or philosophy would have made it into the western Canon? I'm not doubting their bravery, but their value seems more as security for or a foil for Greek civilization rather than defenders of western values. They had a repressive government that was barely better than the Persians.

I would take the Battle of Marathon to be more fitting in the metaphor for clashing cultures. Athens was more advanced in everything but land warfare and far more "western" than Sparta.

My two cents.
Sparta was the Greek Cato that put a moral backbone into a story otherwise characterised by the girly but creative Athenians. You need to net them off to get a usable origins story.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#273

Post by MarcusAu » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:47 pm

Brive1987 wrote: In short. If you are already “into” and across this period of history and Herodotus and have an awareness of the Spartan myth topic then it will probably resonate on a visceral but higher level than the overt action / graphics deserve. If you expect a Saving Private Ryan or want a quick injection of ancient history or a contained Game of Thrones / Return of the King you are probably stuffed.
It's weird that Herodotus is known as the 'Father of History' but that he also seems to be the original unreliable narrator. (Well, except for all the others that is).

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#274

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:50 pm

MarcusAu wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: In short. If you are already “into” and across this period of history and Herodotus and have an awareness of the Spartan myth topic then it will probably resonate on a visceral but higher level than the overt action / graphics deserve. If you expect a Saving Private Ryan or want a quick injection of ancient history or a contained Game of Thrones / Return of the King you are probably stuffed.
It's weird that Herodotus is known as the 'Father of History' but that he also seems to be the original unreliable narrator. (Well, except for all the others that is).
It’s a relative thing. Thucydides is of course the first “real” historian.

Re earlier point about relevance. There is actually a scene in 300 where the King mocks the Athenian’s as “boy lovers”.

Kind of ironic given the historical reality of Sparta and 300s glistening toxic masculinity. And usually this scene is laughed at by critics with a little bit of knowledge. In context it’s clear that the slur is a modern expression of the Spartans disdain for the Athenian lack of discipline, honour etc etc

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#275

Post by MarcusAu » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:52 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: “Now this dingbat is outraged at the Berenstain Bears”

Sorry. That tweet was an arched eyebrow. You need to manage your own red curtain.
Triggered by the Berenstain Bears. What a snowflake. :bjarte:
“Posted without comment”. Least seismic trigger ever. How many tweets has he done?
At times my heart almost goes out to Moly - this is what he has chosen to do for a living.

Sargon too, come to think of it.

The Internet has become a modern day version of talk radio. Where you are either the one making money riling people up - or the sucker paying for it.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#276

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:35 pm

Brive1987 wrote: In short. If you are already “into” and across this period of history and Herodotus and have an awareness of the Spartan myth topic then it will probably resonate on a visceral but higher level than the overt action / graphics deserve. If you expect a Saving Private Ryan or want a quick injection of ancient history or a contained Game of Thrones / Return of the King you are probably stuffed.
I might be stuffed then, but I'll give a go. I find it hard to get into historically based movies when the historical revisions are unnecessary. The battle stood on its own merits, no enhancements would be needed.
Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: As to the clash of civilizations, well, Sparta was mainly a warlike part of Greece rather than the ideal of western civilization. Sparta left a fighting legacy, and when they weren't busy killing other Greeks they were certainly useful in defending Hellenic civilization, but I do believe more of the rich legacy of western values came more from Athens. Had Sparta been the sole Greek power, what of art, literature or philosophy would have made it into the western Canon? I'm not doubting their bravery, but their value seems more as security for or a foil for Greek civilization rather than defenders of western values. They had a repressive government that was barely better than the Persians.

I would take the Battle of Marathon to be more fitting in the metaphor for clashing cultures. Athens was more advanced in everything but land warfare and far more "western" than Sparta.

My two cents.
Sparta was the Greek Cato that put a moral backbone into a story otherwise characterised by the girly but creative Athenians. You need to net them off to get a usable origins story.
Meh, if you wanna use metaphors, Athens was the soul of the Hellenic world, Sparta the brutal right arm.

But if you enjoy what I consider an inordinate fondness for Sparta, you might like The Ten Thousand, a novel about the actual events shortly after the Peloponnesian war.
(American site) I thought it okay, fairly historically accurate, but that the author rushed the ending, not getting the whole of the saga right.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#277

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:31 pm

Might have a look. Does it compare to the opus?

Btw Ik not spartan aligned - it’s a fun story. And after Sphacteria they lost all cause for respect.


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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#278

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:59 am

Shots fired.


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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#279

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:17 am



Maybe shots should be fired. This shit wouldn't fly in the US. You need more Chinese in Australia to help with this, they know how to deal with muslims.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#280

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:01 pm


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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#281

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:16 am

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aggr ... -jj5hkw3l9

Aggressive atheism denying religion and culture. Why I never.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#282

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:36 am

Stefan Molyneux was Lauren Southern's co-host in the Land Down Under, both are part of the Very Reasonable Alt-Lite.

He's Very Reasonable Indeed. :bjarte:


I especially love how Stefan seems to believe that the Marxists control the Vatican. Amateur. Jack Chick knew that it was the other way around:

http://media.chick.com/tractimages67491 ... 077_17.gif

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#283

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:22 am

Pope JP2 would have Frannies balls over his liberation taint.

“Unbridled capitalism”. Well I never. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ ... pe-francis


http://i.imgur.com/x8eLG2t.jpg

Also. I see Francis jumped on the bandwagon back in 2015.
The pontiff also demanded an immediate end to what he called the “genocide” of Christians taking place in the Middle East and beyond, describing it as a third world war.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#284

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:24 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:

Maybe shots should be fired. This shit wouldn't fly in the US. You need more Chinese in Australia to help with this, they know how to deal with muslims.
The damn article never explains exactly what the Bohra do. But I bet is not very Aussie.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#285

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:45 am

Brive1987 wrote: Pope JP2 would have Frannies balls over his liberation taint.

“Unbridled capitalism”. Well I never. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ ... pe-francis


http://i.imgur.com/x8eLG2t.jpg

Also. I see Francis jumped on the bandwagon back in 2015.
The pontiff also demanded an immediate end to what he called the “genocide” of Christians taking place in the Middle East and beyond, describing it as a third world war.
a) BWAHAHAHA. Christians have always been against "unbridled capitalism" and liberalism in general, since they always see freedom with suspicion (as all religious leaders do). Historically they've preferred their own theocracy and/or corporate fascism to liberal democracy. That isn't so hot right now, and after Ratzinger got too conservative for the Catholic base Bergoglio is now trying to pander to the more liberal-leftist Christians. He may be less conservative, but a Marxist he ain't. Saying that "the Marxists control the Vatican" is a PizzaGate level bargain basement conspiracy theory.

b) Institutional and co-ordinated attacks on Christians (and Yazidis, and non-believers, and other religious minorities) in the Middle East are real, although calling them "genocide" is a bit of propaganda on Bergoglio's part, unless he was specifically talking about the Islamic State, in which case he's right.

But unlike the alt-righters who think that immigration of non-whites to Europe and European offshoots are white genocide the old man with a funny hat who leads a a church infested by pedophiles has a point in that islamic theocracy is threatening all those who are seen as infidels. Of course he singles out only those who share his beliefs, but that's to be expected.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#286

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:11 pm

I see you fall into the camp that thinks genocide is defined by process rather than high level outcome.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#287

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:08 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:11 pm
I see you fall into the camp that thinks genocide is defined by process rather than high level outcome.
In situation A, I deliberately kill someone and then burgle their house. In situation B, I force someone at gunpoint to reveal to me the combination of their safe, then empty it and leave them poor and starving to death in their house. In situation C, I force someone out of their house at gunpoint, then leave them to die alone and poor in the streets. In situation D, I force or blackmail or trick someone into signing a will that leaves me at their only heir, then wait it out until they're dead.

In situation E I marry someone's daughter and she and I inherit her family's money after her parents die of natural causes.

In all situations the "high level outcome" is that someone is dead and I have some of the properties that belong them, but all but one "processes" are crimes and according to most people, sociopaths excluded, immoral. Situation E, on the other hand, is perfectly legal and, according to most people, at the very least morally neutral.

If all you care about to define genocide is the "high level outcome" about "population replacement", then I can see why you think that non-white people moving to white majority countries is "genocide" for you, assuming that you also think that non-whites will eventually "culturally displace" whites just by immigration and by difference in reproduction rates (which is a BIG assumption to make).

But then the problem is with your definition of genocide as a "high level outcome". Immigrants who come to your country aren't killing you by the act of immigrating. They aren't forcing you to leave your house. They aren't expelling you from your city. They're not forcibly assimilating you to them. There's no sane definition of genocide that includes peaceful, voluntary immigration.

The Irish, Jews and Italians didn't commit genocide onto the WASPs in New York and New Jersey by moving there. Neither are the South/Central Americans who move the US committing genocide onto "heritage Americans". Similarly Chinese or Indians who move to Australia aren't committing white genocide. :twatson:

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#288

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:28 pm

Indeed let's review the UN concept of genocide:
Article II of the Genocide Convention contains a narrow definition of the crime of genocide, which includes two main elements:

A mental element: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"; and

A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively:

Killing members of the group

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group

Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
In the case of immigration there's no evidence of intent to destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group (unless one believes some conspiracy theories about immigration as a tool to "undermine the west"). Immigrants aren't set out to to kill members of the host country, or to cause serious bodily or mental harm (unless one counts having to endure the sight of immigrants as "serious mental harm", which isn't what normal people do). They're not deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring the destruction of the host country. They surely aren't imposing measures intended to prevent births among the citizens of host country, or taking away the children of the citizens of the host country.

The Chinese or Indian or Middle Eastern or Black immigrants to Australia aren't killing Anglo Australians with a "deliberate intent to destroy" them, indeed they're not setting up institutions and systems to kill Anglo Australians at all. They're also not causing serious bodily or mental harm just by immigrating. Being triggered at the sight of Chinese characters in advertising or of a black actor playing Shakespeare doesn't count as "serious mental harm". :twatson:

There is no evidence that those immigrants inflict on Anglo-Australians terrible conditions of life calculated to bring their physical destruction. Neither do they prevent births among Anglo-Australians, who are limiting their birth rates freely or on their own. And there' also cs zero evidence of the new immigrants transferring Anglo Australians children to their group or vice versa.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#289

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:36 pm

While you are here, you had better provide your definition for ‘In part’ and ‘destruction’.

One day you will need to address PM Keating’s speech re the intent behind his multiculti program. And what so called ‘required diversity’ is as set against documented demographic trends and the consequent in-part destruction of cultural coherence.

You are, of course, confused. The “destroy in whole or part ..” does not directly reference physical destruction. You added that, you trickster. The following “physical” list of actions denotes items resolutely non physical in nature. Weird huh.

It’s almost like the concept was designed by a committee. And they weren’t sure whether they were referencing the destruction of an ethnic entity/concept or simply people defined by that entity. Whether they were talking physical or metaphysical destruction. Total ‘destruction’ or incremental ‘destruction’.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#290

Post by Sunder » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:09 am

Calling the melting pot genocide is as hysterical as calling momentary eye-contact rape.

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Re: The Ethnostate Thread!

#291

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:33 am

I agree, based on common usage. But if Kirb wants to throw around the UN definition then he gets to swim in the debate over its failure as a cogent and applicable term.

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