Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

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Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#1

Post by free thoughtpolice » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:58 am

You thought Trump was bad? What about Killary? Or the swamp creatures from the deep state?
[youtube]
[/youtube]

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#2

Post by free thoughtpolice » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:17 am

The MSM has totally ignored this story:
[youtube]
[/youtube]

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#3

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:51 am

Less batshit insane and more interesting:
Lawyers :bjarte:

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#4

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:53 am

The real Deep State are Big Law corporations, and they own both Reps and Dems. :bjarte:

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#5

Post by Steersman » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:55 am


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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#6

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:45 am

Another Killary related hilling, possibly related to the Deep State covering its' tracks on 9/11:

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#7

Post by deLurch » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:36 pm

On the subject of Hillary mysterious deaths & Hillary Raped me stuff, this stuff tends to be pushed out by the tin-foil-hat brigade. I won't take it seriously until someone with at least some level of reputation & standing addresses it.

I just saved myself a shitload of time.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#8

Post by Kirbmarc » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:36 pm

deLurch wrote:On the subject of Hillary mysterious deaths & Hillary Raped me stuff, this stuff tends to be pushed out by the tin-foil-hat brigade. I won't take it seriously until someone with at least some level of reputation & standing addresses it.

I just saved myself a shitload of time.
Exactly. It's idiocy, not worthy of your time.

If you want insight on the real shady business of the Democratic Party (and of the Republicans as well) you should check out the names of the corporate lawyers working for the Obama or Trump administration, what they did and their careers before and after working for the presidency.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#9

Post by free thoughtpolice » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:52 am

Some real probably true Clinton shady business:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_8: ... od_Scandal
A friend of mine died from hepatitis likely from tainted blood from this source.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#10

Post by Steersman » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:46 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:Some real probably true Clinton shady business:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_8: ... od_Scandal
A friend of mine died from hepatitis likely from tainted blood from this source.
Speaking of "real probably true Clinton shady businesss" ....
Forbes World Affairs #ForeignAffairs
Is Russiagate Really Hillarygate?

Paul Roderick Gregory, CONTRIBUTOR

According to an insider account, the Clinton team, put together the Russia Gate narrative within 24 hours of her defeat. The Clinton account explained that Russian hacking and election meddling caused her unexpected loss. ....

The most under covered story of Russia Gate is the interconnection between the Clinton campaign, an unregistered foreign agent of Russia headquartered in DC (Fusion GPS), and the Christopher Steele Orbis dossier. This connection has raised the question of whether Kremlin prepared the dossier as part of a disinformation campaign to sow chaos in the US political system. If ordered and paid for by Hillary Clinton associates, Russia Gate is turned on its head as collusion between Clinton operatives (not Trump’s) and Russian intelligence. Russia Gate becomes Hillary Gate.

Neither the New York Times, Washington Post, nor CNN has covered this explosive story. Two op-eds have appeared in the Wall Street Journal (Holman Jenkins and David Satter). The possible Russian-intelligence origins of the Steele dossier have been raised only in conservative publications, such as in The Federalist and National Review. ....

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#11

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:34 am

The fusion gps study was originally commissioned by an entity within the republican party during the primaries and later purchased by the dems. It was opposition research carried out by an American company. They probed the activities of possible Trump/Russian connections, totally different than foreign agents seeking to illegally steal information and then supply it to one side to influence an election.
This article is just another smokescreen and you fell for it because it confirms your bias.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#12

Post by Steersman » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:35 pm

Apropos of nothing much in particular ..., a golden oldie I ran across recently:
Hillary’s Climate of Hate

She’s an evil, crooked, self-centered, corrupt heap of incompetence. Who are the haters? Who are the autocrats? Who are the serial abusers of power?

Only one presidential candidate has wielded the sledgehammer of government against personal enemies. Only one presidential candidate has exploited a spouse’s public office to exact revenge on political dissenters.

Only one presidential candidate has a quarter-century track record of taxpayer-subsidized demagoguery and class warfare.

And, as the most recent undercover investigation by James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas revealed this past week, only one presidential candidate has been directly linked to a scheme to foment chaos and violence at her opponent’s rallies. ....


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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#14

Post by Steersman » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:55 pm

An early "Happy Halloween!" ;-)
https://twitter.com/RhodeIsland2112/sta ... 9004773376



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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#17

Post by Kirbmarc » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:32 am

Clinton is a lot smarter than Trump, and has likely avoided being involved in any crime or direct collusion with foreign powers, especially powers which are seen as hostile to American interests, but the Dems and their "swamp" are not incredibly less corrupt than the "Trump swamp". It's the nature of politics :bjarte:

The problem with Trump, from a purely apolitical and only pragmatic point of view, is that he's a "fucking moron" who doesn't know when to shut up. Politically Trump is bad on environmental issues, healthcare, tax policy and mediocre to bad in foreign policy. Ideologically he has failed to distance himself from the "alt-right", and is at the very least friendly to the "alt-lite" (the Bannon Huntingtonians concerned about a clash of civilizations). All in all it's a disaster, but so was George W. Bush and now he's been rehabilitated :bjarte:

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#18

Post by John D » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:40 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Clinton is a lot smarter than Trump, and has likely avoided being involved in any crime or direct collusion with foreign powers, especially powers which are seen as hostile to American interests, but the Dems and their "swamp" are not incredibly less corrupt than the "Trump swamp". It's the nature of politics :bjarte:

The problem with Trump, from a purely apolitical and only pragmatic point of view, is that he's a "fucking moron" who doesn't know when to shut up. Politically Trump is bad on environmental issues, healthcare, tax policy and mediocre to bad in foreign policy. Ideologically he has failed to distance himself from the "alt-right", and is at the very least friendly to the "alt-lite" (the Bannon Huntingtonians concerned about a clash of civilizations). All in all it's a disaster, but so was George W. Bush and now he's been rehabilitated :bjarte:
Hmmmm....
environment.... stopping the creeping Federal over-reach and telling the world the US is not a donor country... B+
healthcare.... blowing up Obamacare so we can try some better alternatives.... B-
tax policy... reducing corporate tax rates and fixing the give back to high tax states... A
foreign policy.... telling the world that Israel is our friend and that we will reward loyal allies.... B+
alt right - friendly to normal and traditional Americans.... B

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#19

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:05 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:

Clinton is a lot smarter than Trump, and has likely avoided being involved in any crime or direct collusion with foreign powers, especially powers which are seen as hostile to American interests, but the Dems and their "swamp" are not incredibly less corrupt than the "Trump swamp". It's the nature of politics :bjarte:
What I find surprising is that seasoned swamp dwellers like both Manafort and Tony Podesta were sloppy enough not to report their foreign activities, which I gather isn't illegal in itself but is if it isn't reported.
So far, the most serious charges against Manafort is tax evasion from his foreign work and not the work itself. Apparently he could get 20 years in prison for that.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#20

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:06 pm

Fucked up the quote. My words begin after the Bjarte.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#21

Post by John D » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:16 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:Fucked up the quote. My words begin after the Bjarte.
Manafort and his lacky are fucked and they deserves what they get... what cunts. Popadopoulos looks like a small player, but I am holding back any prediction. He will probably get a light sentence. Is there a real tie to Trump?... maybe... but I don't think so.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#22

Post by John D » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:17 pm

and... politicians usually get in more trouble for the lie than the actual crime......

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#23

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:42 pm

John D wrote:and... politicians usually get in more trouble for the lie than the actual crime......
I think the worse thing they had on Papadapolous was lying to the FBI. Just speculating, but I think there is a good possibility that he could testify that others higher up in the campaign knew things that they later lied about.
The way that Trump went from I hardly knew him to he's a dirty liar makes me suspect that he knew stuff that was problematic for higher ups in the campaign, possibly even the Donald. :think:

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#24

Post by KiwiInOz » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:58 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:The real Deep State are Big Law corporations, and they own both Reps and Dems. :bjarte:
I've just been watching Suits, and I can believe it (although corporate raider investment bankers have just gazumped the lawyers).

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#25

Post by free thoughtpolice » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:34 pm

How about the deep state being lobbyists. The sort of cabal that gets elected, gets lobbied, obeys lobbyists and is later rewarded by getting the job of a a lobbyist. On a micro scale, someone gets elected as town mayor, His progressive policies allow zoning changes that benefit a property development company. After a few terms they retire from politics to spend more time with their family and also work for or get a partnership with the local developer.
In federal system the same, only on a larger scale.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#26

Post by Kirbmarc » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:29 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:What I find surprising is that seasoned swamp dwellers like both Manafort and Tony Podesta were sloppy enough not to report their foreign activities, which I gather isn't illegal in itself but is if it isn't reported.
So far, the most serious charges against Manafort is tax evasion from his foreign work and not the work itself. Apparently he could get 20 years in prison for that.
Impunity. Zero accountability. People get comfortable with lying and not paying taxes because nobody is ever caught or punished...until they are.
free thoughtpolice wrote:How about the deep state being lobbyists. The sort of cabal that gets elected, gets lobbied, obeys lobbyists and is later rewarded by getting the job of a a lobbyist. On a micro scale, someone gets elected as town mayor, His progressive policies allow zoning changes that benefit a property development company. After a few terms they retire from politics to spend more time with their family and also work for or get a partnership with the local developer.
In federal system the same, only on a larger scale.
[.youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U6PafLNLzo[/youtube]
The Deep State is a combination of lobbyists, corporate lawyers, corporate raiders, Big Bankers, etc. It works exactly like you explain, through a system of policies that creates rewards for cronies and cushy jobs for ex-politicians.

This is why it should be illegal for ex-politicians or former civil servants in general to get jobs as lobbyists, and the power of lobbies should be severely limited by demanding absolute transparency of all fiscal documents of civil servants to the tax authorities and, for the highest offices in the country, to the public. Also "foundations" should be banned from receiving more than a certain amount of money from backers (foreign or internal) while the people they're connected to are in or are running for office.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#27

Post by Kirbmarc » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:52 pm

John D wrote: Hmmmm....
environment.... stopping the creeping Federal over-reach and telling the world the US is not a donor country... B+
healthcare.... blowing up Obamacare so we can try some better alternatives.... B-
tax policy... reducing corporate tax rates and fixing the give back to high tax states... A
foreign policy.... telling the world that Israel is our friend and that we will reward loyal allies.... B+
alt right - friendly to normal and traditional Americans.... B
How about:

Environment: nominating a series of science denialists to office, gutting the EPA, creating a huge mess in the recovery in Puerto Rico. D-
Healthcare: gutting the ACA with no clear replacement in sight. D
Tax policy: more trickle-down economics bullshit, reducing taxes to corporate interests who won't invest in creating US jobs anyways. C-
Foreign policy: on one hand leaving the Syria quagmire and killing the TPP (see, I can acknowledge when Trump does something right, even if I think he's terrible overall), on the other increasing tensions with North Korea and Iran, carrying on and expanding on the toxic alliance with the Saudis, repeatedly putting his foot in his mouth and compromising America's credibility as a reliable international player (the infamous Mexican wall, saying that Qatar is the only bad guy, etc. etc.) C+
Alt right: friendly to people with no real solutions but lots of illiberal ideas and slogans, lowering the bar for politics just like Clinton did with the SocJus, creating more meaningless friction about identity issues C-

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#28

Post by Kirbmarc » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:57 pm

I don't buy into the "Trump= Hitler" narrative, but this doesn't mean he's a good or even decent president. There's a difference between "fascist dictator" and "incompetent, buffoonish, likely corrupt and sloganeering amateur", but this doesn't mean that the latter is any good.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#29

Post by John D » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:10 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
John D wrote: Hmmmm....
environment.... stopping the creeping Federal over-reach and telling the world the US is not a donor country... B+
healthcare.... blowing up Obamacare so we can try some better alternatives.... B-
tax policy... reducing corporate tax rates and fixing the give back to high tax states... A
foreign policy.... telling the world that Israel is our friend and that we will reward loyal allies.... B+
alt right - friendly to normal and traditional Americans.... B
How about:

Environment: nominating a series of science denialists to office, gutting the EPA, creating a huge mess in the recovery in Puerto Rico. D-
Healthcare: gutting the ACA with no clear replacement in sight. D
Tax policy: more trickle-down economics bullshit, reducing taxes to corporate interests who won't invest in creating US jobs anyways. C-
Foreign policy: on one hand leaving the Syria quagmire and killing the TPP (see, I can acknowledge when Trump does something right, even if I think he's terrible overall), on the other increasing tensions with North Korea and Iran, carrying on and expanding on the toxic alliance with the Saudis, repeatedly putting his foot in his mouth and compromising America's credibility as a reliable international player (the infamous Mexican wall, saying that Qatar is the only bad guy, etc. etc.) C+
Alt right: friendly to people with no real solutions but lots of illiberal ideas and slogans, lowering the bar for politics just like Clinton did with the SocJus, creating more meaningless friction about identity issues C-
Fuck... I am glad you where never my teacher... I would have flunked out... haha :lol:

I guess it is all about what you prioritize. I don't give two shits about global warming and have little interest in the US slowing down our economy to help other countries have lower fuel costs. Everyone should have low fuel costs and the market should determine prices. Obama stretched Federal control too far in many cases and I am pleased that Trump tore up some stuff.

I was always skeptical about Obamacare, but thought it would at least move us toward a potentially better system. Well, it actually made most things worse in the healthcare system. Congress never put in any cost controls and it looks like they never will. At least with Trump people are starting to talk about cost controls.

I think it is a good thing to have tensions with Iran and North Korea. His pompous chest-beating doesn't bother me one bit. I actually think it helps the situation in many ways.

And... while I am no fan of identity politics, I think the only solution to destroying identity politics is if whites start playing the identity game. Let the games begin. Eventually people will get tired of identity politics and we can move into a more reasonable space. This gets worse before it gets better... so be it.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#30

Post by Kirbmarc » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:18 am

John D wrote:Fuck... I am glad you where never my teacher... I would have flunked out... haha :lol:
I'm probably young enough to be your son. No disrespect, sir.
I guess it is all about what you prioritize. I don't give two shits about global warming and have little interest in the US slowing down our economy to help other countries have lower fuel costs. Everyone should have low fuel costs and the market should determine prices. Obama stretched Federal control too far in many cases and I am pleased that Trump tore up some stuff.
Well...the problem is that global warming also doesn't give two shits about our desires.
I was always skeptical about Obamacare, but thought it would at least move us toward a potentially better system. Well, it actually made most things worse in the healthcare system. Congress never put in any cost controls and it looks like they never will. At least with Trump people are starting to talk about cost controls.
Was it necessary to completely tear the Affordable Care Act apart to do so, though? Even Trump himself seemed to think that certain parts of the ACA were OK at the beginning of his presidency. Also now the fate of US healthcare is in a virtual limbo before the GOP can get its act together and pass something even remotely coherent, which with all the other issues on play might take quite a long time. This isn't very good to say the least.
I think it is a good thing to have tensions with Iran and North Korea. His pompous chest-beating doesn't bother me one bit. I actually think it helps the situation in many ways.
I'm pretty sure that some degree of tension between the US and Iran/North Korea would have happened anyway, but isn't it better to speak softly and carry a big stick rather than to promise "fire and fury" but then only delivering tweets?
And... while I am no fan of identity politics, I think the only solution to destroying identity politics is if whites start playing the identity game. Let the games begin. Eventually people will get tired of identity politics and we can move into a more reasonable space. This gets worse before it gets better... so be it.
Fighting fire with fire can get the entire forest burnt if one isn't careful, and Trump really doesn't look like the type to be trusted with handling a complex cultural issues like identity politics.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#31

Post by John D » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:35 am

Of course, global warming doesn't give a shit about my feelings. But, I would claim a counter argument that my feels can do almost nothing to stop global warming. I am pretty sure that the efforts to reduce CO2 in the Paris Accord was not enough to even make a difference to the climate. I am kind of fatalistic about climate change. Of course, human action is changing the climate. But, I don't think we will ever be able to change the behavior of the world enough to stop the change. I think it is something we will have to live with.

And the commies at "Democracy Now", a group supported by our government subsidized NPR, post this pile of shit...
The fallout from this year’s record hurricane season comes as a new study finds extreme weather fueled by climate change has cost the U.S. economy at least $240 billion a year over the last decade—and that’s before an estimated $300 billion in losses from Hurricanes Harvey, Irma and Maria are factored in. The report from the Universal Ecological Fund predicts the cost of climate change to the U.S. is expected to rise to at least $360 billion annually over the next decade.
So... look at what this is saying. It is saying that ALL of the hurricane damage in the last decade is a direct result of global warming. This is complete and utter shit. They don't even bother to account for the fact that the prior five years had record LOW levels of tropical storm and hurricane damage. Maybe this is impacted by warming.... but this "report" blames all hurricane damage of warming. And this shit is reported like it is science.

Anyway... I am rambling.... but I think the climate change story is that we don't have the tech and money to seriously dent the climate, so we are essentially already destined to have to learn to live with it. I am certainly not in favor of spending a ton of money to put a tiny dent in the warming problem.

I kind of like how Jordan Peterson sees the latest pile of politics. He thinks the chaos is needed and that we have to live through the chaos in order to find a new place to settle. I think this is the case in regards to identify politics. The leftist identitarian will NEVER listen to reason. They need to taste their own stupid logic and have it shoved in their faces until they scream UNCLE. It will stay ugly for a long time. The two camps are settling in for a long fight.
:popcorn:

Trump will not really lead any kind of culture change. The culture will deal with him and others when people decide what they want. I think Trump is just a troll and trouble-maker which will provide people opportunity to decide what they want their world to look like.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#32

Post by John D » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:49 am

Regrading healthcare... well... I guess I am really not convinced we would even be discussing the cost of healthcare if Hillary would have won the election. At least with Trump we are having some kind of discussion about costs. I am not encouraged about this topic however. There are really only a few ideas I consider good ones, that are market driven, but the best ideas have very few champions. The US healthcare system is gonna stay fucked up for a long time.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#33

Post by free thoughtpolice » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:46 am

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... 016-215774

We kind of knew this before, but here it is from the horse's mouth.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#34

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:30 pm

Elizabeth Warren: the 2016 Democratic Campaign was rigged for Hillary Clinton...and Clinton still managed to screw up the general election and get the Orangeutan elected.

Congratulations, Hillary!

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#35

Post by Steersman » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:03 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:Elizabeth Warren: the 2016 Democratic Campaign was rigged for Hillary Clinton...and Clinton still managed to screw up the general election and get the Orangeutan elected.

Congratulations, Hillary!
"Orangeutan"?
https://twitter.com/RealMattCouch/statu ... 1693941760

But, yea, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
https://twitter.com/Jali_Cat/status/925118106820898816

Still think, did you ever think, that Trump was not the lesser of two evils? Rot looks to go rather deep, and within both Parties. Although one might suggest that that applies to much of Western society in general. But for all of Trump's many flaws, it sure looks like he's thrown the fox in amongst the chickens - the resulting squawking may be an illuminating corrective, just what the doctor ordered.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#36

Post by KiwiInOz » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:10 pm

John D wrote:Of course, global warming doesn't give a shit about my feelings. But, I would claim a counter argument that my feels can do almost nothing to stop global warming. I am pretty sure that the efforts to reduce CO2 in the Paris Accord was not enough to even make a difference to the climate. I am kind of fatalistic about climate change. Of course, human action is changing the climate. But, I don't think we will ever be able to change the behavior of the world enough to stop the change. I think it is something we will have to live with.
And this is why we require engagement at the scale of governments and nations to drive change in a direction that enables us to reduce the rate at which we are pumping CO2 and other GHG into the atmosphere, particularly through modern energy systems, while adapting our food production systems for different weather and climatic conditions.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#37

Post by free thoughtpolice » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:19 pm

Still think, did you ever think, that Trump was not the lesser of two evils?
Trump is worse than Hillary if that is what you are asking in a typically roundabout way.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#38

Post by John D » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:25 pm

KiwiInOz wrote:
John D wrote:Of course, global warming doesn't give a shit about my feelings. But, I would claim a counter argument that my feels can do almost nothing to stop global warming. I am pretty sure that the efforts to reduce CO2 in the Paris Accord was not enough to even make a difference to the climate. I am kind of fatalistic about climate change. Of course, human action is changing the climate. But, I don't think we will ever be able to change the behavior of the world enough to stop the change. I think it is something we will have to live with.
And this is why we require engagement at the scale of governments and nations to drive change in a direction that enables us to reduce the rate at which we are pumping CO2 and other GHG into the atmosphere, particularly through modern energy systems, while adapting our food production systems for different weather and climatic conditions.
Fuck it man. The planet is warning up. Get used to it and stop complaining about it.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#39

Post by John D » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:27 pm

PS ... I really like the new income tax proposal...

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#40

Post by Steersman » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:40 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Still think, did you ever think, that Trump was not the lesser of two evils?
Trump is worse than Hillary if that is what you are asking in a typically roundabout way.
Oh, well, that's your opinion of course. And you're entirely welcome to it, though I don't see that you've put much if any evidence on the table to show that's the case.

No doubt many of the facts on the table - first and foremost that neither Obama nor Clinton (at least until late in the game) could ever say "Islamic terrorism", and secondly the whole mephitic mess of Title IX and the attendant rot in academia, for starters - can be given different weights depending on one's biases. But in my view, and apparently in that of some 63 million Americans, a plurality of sorts, those facts kind of tipped the balance in Trump's favour.

Rather than kvetching - if only the dog hadn't have stopped to pee it would have caught the rabbit - it seems the more productive course of action now is to decide where America goes from there, and how the rest of us might provide some assistance:
https://twitter.com/goldilocks09876/sta ... 8194974720

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#41

Post by KiwiInOz » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:44 pm

John D wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
John D wrote:Of course, global warming doesn't give a shit about my feelings. But, I would claim a counter argument that my feels can do almost nothing to stop global warming. I am pretty sure that the efforts to reduce CO2 in the Paris Accord was not enough to even make a difference to the climate. I am kind of fatalistic about climate change. Of course, human action is changing the climate. But, I don't think we will ever be able to change the behavior of the world enough to stop the change. I think it is something we will have to live with.
And this is why we require engagement at the scale of governments and nations to drive change in a direction that enables us to reduce the rate at which we are pumping CO2 and other GHG into the atmosphere, particularly through modern energy systems, while adapting our food production systems for different weather and climatic conditions.
Fuck it man. The planet is warning up. Get used to it and stop complaining about it.
Mate, I am doing something about it. I work in climate adaptation for agriculture and critical infrastructure.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#42

Post by Lsuoma » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:22 am

KiwiInOz wrote:[quote="John D"
Fuck it man. The planet is warning up. Get used to it and stop complaining about it.
Mate, I am doing something about it. I work in climate adaptation for agriculture and critical infrastructure.[/quote]
Me, I'm cutting down on free-farting.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#43

Post by Kirbmarc » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:01 am

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Still think, did you ever think, that Trump was not the lesser of two evils?
Trump is worse than Hillary if that is what you are asking in a typically roundabout way.
He's worse for exactly two reasons: a) he's much dumber, so he thinks he can outright break the rules and norms of politics with no repercussions, while Clinton is much better at bending the rules and exploiting them without outright breaking them and b)his political message is much more simplistic than Clinton's and he doesn't know how to compromise, he goes full tilt for every half-baked thought that passes in his head, while Clinton knows how to balance getting what she and her cronies want by keeping things intact enough not to upset the US system.

Both Trump and Clinton exploit stupid ideas, and both have corrupt and authoritarian tendencies, but Clinton is much better at keeping them in check enough not to clash with the current US system, and only act when she knows that she won't find any resistance (i.e. supporting limitations to freedom of speech by tying them to SocJus narratives instead of talking about building walls and muslim bans).

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#44

Post by John D » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:58 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:
Still think, did you ever think, that Trump was not the lesser of two evils?
Trump is worse than Hillary if that is what you are asking in a typically roundabout way.
He's worse for exactly two reasons: a) he's much dumber, so he thinks he can outright break the rules and norms of politics with no repercussions, while Clinton is much better at bending the rules and exploiting them without outright breaking them and b)his political message is much more simplistic than Clinton's and he doesn't know how to compromise, he goes full tilt for every half-baked thought that passes in his head, while Clinton knows how to balance getting what she and her cronies want by keeping things intact enough not to upset the US system.

Both Trump and Clinton exploit stupid ideas, and both have corrupt and authoritarian tendencies, but Clinton is much better at keeping them in check enough not to clash with the current US system, and only act when she knows that she won't find any resistance (i.e. supporting limitations to freedom of speech by tying them to SocJus narratives instead of talking about building walls and muslim bans).
Clinton is probably smarter than Trump in many ways.... but smartness is pretty complex. She was obviously not smart enough to beat the second worst presidential candidate in history (the worst candidate being her). Just sayin.

Clinton's lies are worse than Trump's lies in some important ways. When Clinton lies about the wage gap, 70% of women and 30% of men in the entire country believe her. This is pretty destructive. When Trump lies about getting Mexico to pay for the wall, 15% of people think he means it literally. In Trump's case most people think that he is posturing and exaggerating. This is why people are not that upset that the wall is not technically a wall. Trump fans never thought he would do exactly what he said. Trump fans know he is preaching.... it is Trump's enemies that think he is being literal.

But really, I am so pleased at the results from the Trump presidency so far. He is doing 10 times better than I expected. Below is a list of stuff that is clearly better under Trump as compared to a Hillary presidency:

1) Redirection away from Title IX kangaroo courts in Universities
2) An end to the Federal Justice Department forcing racial quotes on police actions
3) A slow down of creeping EPA rules
4) A slow down of creeping FDA rules
5) Strong support for Israel
6) A fantastic income tax re-write (and I hope even part of it passes.... please, please, please)
7) Calling Muslim terror what it really is... and that's Muslim terror
8) I reduction of Muslim refugees into the US (Hillary promised to increase the number)
9) Challenging congress to do something regarding making health care truly less expensive and possibly block granting to the states
10) Potential to reduce the size and cost of agencies such as the Education Department etc.
11) Pulling out of the Paris Accord
12) Drawing attention to violent radical left groups like Antifa
13) Support for gays in general (which is a big deal for a Republican)

The things that worry me most are:
1) A push to keep pot illegal (and the idea that it is a gate-way drug)
2) Support for cops to keep property from innocent citizens
3) The risk that his volatility and tweeting cause some kind of international crisis
4) Some risk to free trade due to his wanting to renegotiate deals.

So, to me, on balance, he has been really quite good. I hate the fact that he has risky behaviors. This is what I dislike the most. He does tend to scare me some days.

Image a Hillary presidency. Many of the good things Trump is doing would be going in the opposite direction. More government mandates, more anti male and anti white bullshit, more pandering to radical Muslims, more growth in the Federal government (like paying for college). Really... there is almost nothing I liked about Hillary's policy positions.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#45

Post by Sunder » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:26 am

I love the Republcian tax plan as well. It balloons the deficit (and thus can't be passed in the senate without a full 60 votes), raises taxes on some middle-class Americans, and doesn't simplify tax filing despite reducing the number of brackets. Brilliant.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#46

Post by Sunder » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:26 am

Republican*

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#47

Post by John D » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:21 pm

Sunder wrote:I love the Republcian tax plan as well. It balloons the deficit (and thus can't be passed in the senate without a full 60 votes), raises taxes on some middle-class Americans, and doesn't simplify tax filing despite reducing the number of brackets. Brilliant.
It may or may not balloon the deficit. Time will tell. If it substantially increases growth, which it should, then it will have the effect of reducing the deficit. More growth will create more high quality jobs and will probably increase wages... which.... creates more tax revenue. Higher corporate earning could be fueled by higher product demand...etc... you know how it works.

It simplifies the code by eliminating many deductions. I wish it eliminated more deductions, like the mortgage interest deduction. This deduction is being capped, but it should just be removed. Why should renters pay more tax than home owners? It's just not right. and... I get the mortgage deduction now... I am just willing to get rid of it even at my expense.

They are getting rid of some medical and business related deductions as well, which are really time consuming for tax payers to calculate (and they don't save much for the vast majority of people).

There is some debate about charitable giving. I think this should be eliminated too. I will still donate just as much stuff, and I will not have to track and itemize everything. This takes a ton of paperwork and only saves a bit of money. Just kill it.

Some people's total tax bill may go up in high income tax states like NY and CA. Fuck em.... Haha! Red states vs. Blue states man! Why should high tax states be able to essentially divert money from the Feds to the states? Makes no sense.

The best feature is the reduction in the base rate for business. The 20% rate puts us on par with most of the rest of the world. This should produce significant business growth.

We will see... the bill will be changed as it is moved through congress. Hell... I only give a 50% chance of even passing.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#48

Post by Steersman » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:01 pm

Night(s) of the long knives, part deux:
The Dam Breaks: Democrats Are Decisively Turning on Hillary

But there’s still one last line they won’t cross.

One of the most mystifying aspects of the 2016 election has been the short-term elevation of Hillary Clinton. She somehow went from being the “most qualified presidential candidate in history” to a spiritual figure, a person with a mystical presence. She walks the woods. She grants or denies absolution. When she speaks, grown women weep.

Or at least they did yesterday. Today, things changed. ....

Conservatives have been fighting vicious, public battles over everything from character and integrity to political tactics and strategy. The media have been eager to cover this “Republican civil war.” But the Democrats unquestionably need to fight a war of their own. They need to have their own honest debate, and it cannot truly begin until they take off their rose-colored glasses and see clearly for the first time the candidate they presented to America.
Indeed; by the look of it, couldn't happen to a nicer or more deserving person ...

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#49

Post by free thoughtpolice » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:08 pm

Steersman wrote:Night(s) of the long knives, part deux:
The Dam Breaks: Democrats Are Decisively Turning on Hillary

But there’s still one last line they won’t cross.

One of the most mystifying aspects of the 2016 election has been the short-term elevation of Hillary Clinton. She somehow went from being the “most qualified presidential candidate in history” to a spiritual figure, a person with a mystical presence. She walks the woods. She grants or denies absolution. When she speaks, grown women weep.

Or at least they did yesterday. Today, things changed. ....

Conservatives have been fighting vicious, public battles over everything from character and integrity to political tactics and strategy. The media have been eager to cover this “Republican civil war.” But the Democrats unquestionably need to fight a war of their own. They need to have their own honest debate, and it cannot truly begin until they take off their rose-colored glasses and see clearly for the first time the candidate they presented to America.
Indeed; by the look of it, couldn't happen to a nicer or more deserving person ...
You're just jealous because she's a lawyer and your not. That is sad. :(

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#50

Post by Steersman » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:16 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Steersman wrote:Night(s) of the long knives, part deux:
<snip>
Indeed; by the look of it, couldn't happen to a nicer or more deserving person ...
You're just jealous because she's a lawyer and your you're not. That is sad. :(
:lol: Lawyer-envy, it bedevils us all ... ;-)

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#51

Post by Kirbmarc » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:09 pm

The hero-worshipping for Hillary Clinton was immensely unproductive and I'm glad it might end (ideally she should have admitted her mistakes and left politics altogether after the 2016 election as should all politicians who fail to win an election they assumed to have already won). Now if only Trump fans turned on Trump and he was soundly defeated in the 2020 Republican primary, that'd clear some of the meaningless clutter and leave room for more serious talks about policies instead of the personality flaws of two of the most unpopular presidential candidates in US history. But I'm not holding my breath.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#52

Post by KiwiInOz » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:20 am

Lsuoma wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
John D wrote: Fuck it man. The planet is warning up. Get used to it and stop complaining about it.
Mate, I am doing something about it. I work in climate adaptation for agriculture and critical infrastructure.
Me, I'm cutting down on free-farting.
Better to ignite them and reduce the CO2e.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#53

Post by Lsuoma » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:35 am

Sunder wrote:Republican*
Thanks for clarifying that - I could never have guessed what you meant.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#54

Post by Sunder » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:40 am

Lsuoma wrote:
Sunder wrote:Republican*
Thanks for clarifying that - I could never have guessed what you meant.
This is what happens when you take away a man's edit button.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#55

Post by Steersman » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:39 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:The hero-worshipping for Hillary Clinton was immensely unproductive and I'm glad it might end (ideally she should have admitted her mistakes and left politics altogether after the 2016 election as should all politicians who fail to win an election they assumed to have already won). Now if only Trump fans turned on Trump and he was soundly defeated in the 2020 Republican primary, that'd clear some of the meaningless clutter and leave room for more serious talks about policies instead of the personality flaws of two of the most unpopular presidential candidates in US history. But I'm not holding my breath.
Certainly some of Trump's "fans" have at least expressed some "displeasure" with some of his policies, although I doubt all of the blame can be laid at his doorstep - many in the GoP deserve a large share of it.

However, the point is that there was, and still is, no shortage of rot within the system, particularly within the entire Democratic Party. Until there is some evidence of a sincere change of heart and philosophy, a major sea-change, Trump and the perspectives that motivated him and many of his supporters are likely to remain in the driver's seat - and more power to them. Certainly some evidence of change - that Atlantic article I think you linked to earlier, the pushback against postmodernist claptrap in Academia, and an increasing awareness that Islam is no friend of democracy or human rights, being cases in point:

The Surprising Revolt at the Most Liberal College in the Country;
Barbara Kay: Universities Becoming Hotspots for Intellectual Injustice;
Russia Special Counsel Mueller Worked with Radical Islamist Groups to Purge Anti-Terrorism Training Material Offensive to Muslims;
Lindsey Graham's 'Religious War';

But still an awful lot of swamp to drain:
https://twitter.com/Andy_phalanx30/stat ... 1009128448


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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#57

Post by Steersman » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:28 pm

"to compete with the firehose of Russian propaganda and disinformation that was besmirching America’s image and undermining democracy around the world" - :lol: GMAFB. Mr. Black, meet Mr. Pot.

As I've periodically argued, I think America generally has the moral high(er) ground, and may well be the last best hope of humanity, more or less. But rather a large number of black marks on its escutcheon that probably vitiate its best efforts, and make it rather difficult for it to be as effective as it could be:
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/907302159473049601
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/854419203201404930

Map: 200 years of US military interventions

America's Coup Machine: Destroying Democracy Since 1953
https://twitter.com/chrisrock/status/907631732337332224

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#58

Post by free thoughtpolice » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:11 pm

Quoting wikileaks now? Do you think Assange should be the Australian ambassador to the UN too? :hand:

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#59

Post by Kirbmarc » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:57 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:Quoting wikileaks now? Do you think Assange should be the Australian ambassador to the UN too? :hand:
The stuff he's quoting is not false, though. The US HAVE interfered in the voting process of many countries, and they HAVE supported several bloody coups and oppressive dictators during the years, which makes the US look very hypocritical when they claim to be the "leaders of the free world".

I can understand that the US want to protect their elections better. That's a legitimate position to have. But whining about how unprecedentedly Evil the Russians are for getting some email published and supporting some internet trolls is pathetic. It's all part of the game, and the Russkies simply exploited your weaknesses. Protect yourself better, but don't expect the world to weep for you as if you were invaded or bombed or attacked by terrorists, especially since you've done those things in the past to deal with nations whose policies you didn't like, even if they were democracies.

America isn't worse than other Big Powers, but it's not intrinsically better, either.

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Re: Sins of the Clintons/Deep State

#60

Post by Steersman » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:02 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:Quoting wikileaks now? Do you think Assange should be the Australian ambassador to the UN too? :hand:
The stuff he's quoting is not false, though. The US HAVE interfered in the voting process of many countries, and they HAVE supported several bloody coups and oppressive dictators during the years, which makes the US look very hypocritical when they claim to be the "leaders of the free world".

I can understand that the US want to protect their elections better. That's a legitimate position to have. But whining about how unprecedentedly Evil the Russians are for getting some email published and supporting some internet trolls is pathetic. It's all part of the game, and the Russkies simply exploited your weaknesses. Protect yourself better, but don't expect the world to weep for you as if you were invaded or bombed or attacked by terrorists, especially since you've done those things in the past to deal with nations whose policies you didn't like, even if they were democracies.

America isn't worse than other Big Powers, but it's not intrinsically better, either.
FTP seems conspicuous by his silence - cat must have gotten his tongue ... ;-) But nice that you confirmed or supported the argument. Somewhat apropos of which, and as I suggested in a recent tweet, an amusing and related perspective on the Big Powers theme:
https://twitter.com/eottolenghi/status/ ... 3803542528

Frequently moot who has the higher moral ground, which is really the lesser of the two "evils". And problematic that frequently there aren't any other alternatives. One might suggest that the "storytelling", the narratives told by both sides - all sides for that matter, are frequently based on some seriously questionable "motivated reasoning" - takes some time and effort to separate the wheat from the chaff.

But apropos of the "storytelling" idea and Aneris' interesting Facebook post on the topic, and the New Republic article he linked to, seems that many people have lost sight of the idea that undergirds much if not all of science: hypotheses are a dime-a-dozen, 25c-a-boatload, and that absent some facts and figures those hypotheses need to be treated as speculative at best.

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