The Trump Dump!

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1621

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:42 pm

Seriously, Brive, what do your kids think? They with you on white Australia? You never seem to answer.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1622

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:00 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Blind adherence to “Enlightenment values and liberal democracy” is dangerous in troubled times. They white-ant the ability of society to maintain cohesion and defend against introduced collectives.

This doesn’t mean we can’t study and value the abstract, nor does it mean we need national socialism! We do however need to be pragmatic. Redo education. Assert national celebrations without a black armband, limit immigration, be a bit more prescriptive about what immigrants have to assimilate into (starting with english). Acknowledge our Christian heritage without mandate. Tell naysayers “they are not welcome here” and isolation them in in social life. Oops. Sorry. Got a bit jackboot with that last one.

In any case. The CFB sponsored safe space is over on the main thread. Enjoy.
You are such a cunt. You were asked by many to keep it off the main, but go ahead and post your neuroses and midlife crisis boldly for all to see. A single post by Matt or aJan was worth a hundred times the best you offer, but by all means, reduce the pit to four or five dedicated right-wing reactionaries.
When did you die and turn into FT? At least you can now eliminate the moral high-ground from any future spewed invective.
I’m just someone with an opinion you disagree with.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1623

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:09 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: Seriously, Brive, what do your kids think? They with you on white Australia? You never seem to answer.
My reaction reading your posts is indistinguishable from when I engaged the horde. They too had an unhealthy interest in my kids.

There is no reason for the triggered to not have me on ignore. There is no reason that a multitude of discussions couldn’t be happening simultaneously on the MT. There is no basis for you to tolerate one side of the ideological debate without consequently incurring your own label of ‘polemist’.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1624

Post by Kirbmarc » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:23 am

Steersman wrote: LoL. "And believe me, you don't want to"? Sounds like a threat, like "nice society you have, sure wouldn't want it to turn into a shithole like most Muslim countries, now would you" ....
You're thicker than usual if you believe that it was a threat rather than a warning not to go down the Nazi path.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1625

Post by MarcusAu » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:52 am

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: Seriously, Brive, what do your kids think? They with you on white Australia? You never seem to answer.
My reaction reading your posts is indistinguishable from when I engaged the horde. They too had an unhealthy interest in my kids.

There is no reason for the triggered to not have me on ignore. There is no reason that a multitude of discussions couldn’t be happening simultaneously on the MT. There is no basis for you to tolerate one side of the ideological debate without consequently incurring your own label of ‘polemist’.
I think I've brought up this subject before too. It's pretty apparent from what you have said that you lean more (socially at least) conservative than anyone else in your household. With the possible exception of the dog. If I say that I hope they all remain in fine fettle - I hope this will not be considered unhealthy on my part.

It might not just be the view point but also the number of posts on certain topics that is a cause of irritation. Quantity has a quality all of it's own as a wise man once said.

I think there is a nature vs nurture aspect of people's worldviews too. If informed by nature - then it becomes pointless to argue with someone else. if informed by nurture (or 'lived experience') then it's also pointless no one will have exactly the same experiences. On the other hand these categories are more fuzzy and people perhaps more empathetic or subject to change than we might think. Something to ponder I guess - is anyone here trying to convince others of anything? Or are they just trying to explain how they think? And is there a difference?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1626

Post by Brive1987 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:47 am

I’m keen to understand how liberalism translates from the conceptual to the pragmatic in this wonderful world we live in. So far I’m less and less impressed as it veers left, authoritarian and towards the SJWs we all detest. I’m keen to understand how this liberalism will confront confident, aggressive non western collectives. I’m keen to see how all this will positively reinforce those distinctive national groupings we call countries.

I expected liberals to be able to convince me of their pitch. Or at least force me to challenge some of my conclusions. This is typically the role of discussion forums.

Naturally I’d never get in the way of parallel conversations.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1627

Post by Kirbmarc » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:22 am

Brive1987 wrote: I’m keen to understand how liberalism translates from the conceptual to the pragmatic in this wonderful world we live in. So far I’m less and less impressed as it veers left, authoritarian and towards the SJWs we all detest. I’m keen to understand how this liberalism will confront confident, aggressive non western collectives. I’m keen to see how all this will positively reinforce those distinctive national groupings we call countries.

I expected liberals to be able to convince me of their pitch. Or at least force me to challenge some of my conclusions. This is typically the role of discussion forums.

Naturally I’d never get in the way of parallel conversations.
Perhaps your conclusions are based on some flawed assumptions, like the idea of a society having to be perfect in order to be liberal? Or an over-emphasis over the role of the SJWs in liberal societies? Or the idea that the "aggressive non western collectives" are unchanging and immune to assimilation?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1628

Post by MarcusAu » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:29 am

I take it you have in mind a definition of liberalism that confines it to the modern context. Or is there an example from history where liberalism came off well against an aggressive non western collective that we can extrapolate from?

These questions are perhaps best directed to a student of political science. In other words not me. Other's here will have to speak for themselves as to what they want to discuss.

Parallel conversations - those are the ones with no sense of perspective, and where the parties never meet at a point.

Personally, I find too much keeness to be exhausting.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1629

Post by Brive1987 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:46 am

1. When free speech and tolerance of intolerance become the norm you can question the underpinning liberalism.
2. I’m confident that collective based national institutions are under attack.
3. I see no great hope that the modern west offers alien external cultural collectives much incentive for ‘Integration’.

But thanks for your concerns.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1630

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:05 am

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Blind adherence to “Enlightenment values and liberal democracy” is dangerous in troubled times. They white-ant the ability of society to maintain cohesion and defend against introduced collectives.

This doesn’t mean we can’t study and value the abstract, nor does it mean we need national socialism! We do however need to be pragmatic. Redo education. Assert national celebrations without a black armband, limit immigration, be a bit more prescriptive about what immigrants have to assimilate into (starting with english). Acknowledge our Christian heritage without mandate. Tell naysayers “they are not welcome here” and isolation them in in social life. Oops. Sorry. Got a bit jackboot with that last one.

In any case. The CFB sponsored safe space is over on the main thread. Enjoy.
You are such a cunt. You were asked by many to keep it off the main, but go ahead and post your neuroses and midlife crisis boldly for all to see. A single post by Matt or aJan was worth a hundred times the best you offer, but by all means, reduce the pit to four or five dedicated right-wing reactionaries.
When did you die and turn into FT? At least you can now eliminate the moral high-ground from any future spewed invective.
I’m just someone with an opinion you disagree with.
You're not the high ground, Brive. You're a person whose extended whining has put many off. Go back and look at all the people that asked you to stop.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1631

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:11 am

Brive1987 wrote: 1. When free speech and tolerance of intolerance become the norm you can question the underpinning liberalism.
2. I’m confident that collective based national institutions are under attack.
3. I see no great hope that the modern west offers alien external cultural collectives much incentive for ‘Integration’.

But thanks for your concerns.
So if I find a non-white person that is culturally Australian, you will promise to fuck off?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1632

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:15 am

Brive1987 wrote: I’m keen to understand how liberalism translates from the conceptual to the pragmatic in this wonderful world we live in. So far I’m less and less impressed as it veers left, authoritarian and towards the SJWs we all detest. I’m keen to understand how this liberalism will confront confident, aggressive non western collectives. I’m keen to see how all this will positively reinforce those distinctive national groupings we call countries.

I expected liberals to be able to convince me of their pitch. Or at least force me to challenge some of my conclusions. This is typically the role of discussion forums.

Naturally I’d never get in the way of parallel conversations.
Bullshit. Even when you are given conclusive proof of something, you slither away and change the goalposts. You're as liable to change your mind as Steersman, and your posts resemble his in more ways than one.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1633

Post by Steersman » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:25 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: I’m keen to understand how liberalism translates from the conceptual to the pragmatic in this wonderful world we live in. So far I’m less and less impressed as it veers left, authoritarian and towards the SJWs we all detest. I’m keen to understand how this liberalism will confront confident, aggressive non western collectives. I’m keen to see how all this will positively reinforce those distinctive national groupings we call countries.

I expected liberals to be able to convince me of their pitch. Or at least force me to challenge some of my conclusions. This is typically the role of discussion forums.

Naturally I’d never get in the way of parallel conversations.
Bullshit. Even when you are given conclusive proof of something, you slither away and change the goalposts. You're as liable to change your mind as Steersman, and your posts resemble his in more ways than one.
LoL. What with FT (peace be upon him) comparing me favourably to FTP, and now you with Brive, I think my work here is (almost) done ... :mrgreen: ;)

BTW, you ever manage to put together a cogent argument why Trump following the laws of the land is manifest evidence of his "hypocrisy"? You have a compendium of all of his companies doing likewise as "evidence" of that as well?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1634

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:39 am

Steersman wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: I’m keen to understand how liberalism translates from the conceptual to the pragmatic in this wonderful world we live in. So far I’m less and less impressed as it veers left, authoritarian and towards the SJWs we all detest. I’m keen to understand how this liberalism will confront confident, aggressive non western collectives. I’m keen to see how all this will positively reinforce those distinctive national groupings we call countries.

I expected liberals to be able to convince me of their pitch. Or at least force me to challenge some of my conclusions. This is typically the role of discussion forums.

Naturally I’d never get in the way of parallel conversations.
Bullshit. Even when you are given conclusive proof of something, you slither away and change the goalposts. You're as liable to change your mind as Steersman, and your posts resemble his in more ways than one.
LoL. What with FT (peace be upon him) comparing me favourably to FTP, and now you with Brive, I think my work here is (almost) done ... :mrgreen: ;)

BTW, you ever manage to put together a cogent argument why Trump following the laws of the land is manifest evidence of his "hypocrisy"? You have a compendium of all of his companies doing likewise as "evidence" of that as well?
A-Trump did not follow the laws of the land, and knowingly and willfully employed illegal workers. That was in a different link, but it was posted.

B-Trump also disparages legal workers, especially from "shithole" countries, but similarly uses a program he has also disparages to employ them. That was in the link.

So, conclusively, Trump is a hypocrite. You won't acknowledge this, because you share that attribute. Indeed, I may be losing it simply replying to you and the Brivetard, as it is without the slightest doubt an exercise in futility. You both are only interested in pushing a narrative, and will dodge any amount of logic and reason to hold fast to your preconceived notions.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1635

Post by Steersman » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:49 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Steersman wrote: LoL. "And believe me, you don't want to"? Sounds like a threat, like "nice society you have, sure wouldn't want it to turn into a shithole like most Muslim countries, now would you" ....
You're thicker than usual if you believe that it was a threat rather than a warning not to go down the Nazi path.
LoL. "You keep saying that word (Nazi) ...." Why doncha double-down and call me a misogynist and racist to boot - add pedophile & "anti-disestablishmentarianist" as cherries on top ... And I DID say "sounds like ...."

But rather some distance between removing people who don't subscribe to the laws of the land - whose values are "flatly incompatible with democracy and human rights", and putting them into ovens. A distinction that seems lost on you; wonder why that might be ...

You make some credible observations about the nature of Islam in the West, and the support it finds among extremist nutcases (most of them, one might reasonably suggest - your relatives excepted of course ...) But you seem rather remarkably unwilling to consider that your suggested policies are little better than pissing against the wind, than trying to bail out the sinking Titanic with a tea cup.

Islam won't EVER reform if we turn a blind eye to the egregrious barbarism and savagery, and manifest psychosis that it entails. And challenging or threatening Muslims with deportation may actually precipitate a rather necessary and very public "full and proper discussion of Islam"; may even help precipitate a general and equally necessary discussion on religion as well.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1636

Post by Steersman » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:00 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Steersman wrote: <snip>
LoL. What with FT (peace be upon him) comparing me favourably to FTP, and now you with Brive, I think my work here is (almost) done ... :mrgreen: ;)

BTW, you ever manage to put together a cogent argument why Trump following the laws of the land is manifest evidence of his "hypocrisy"? You have a compendium of all of his companies doing likewise as "evidence" of that as well?
A-Trump did not follow the laws of the land, and knowingly and willfully employed illegal workers. That was in a different link, but it was posted.
Fine. I acknowledged that.
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: B-Trump also disparages legal workers, especially from "shithole" countries, but similarly uses a program he has also disparages to employ them. That was in the link.
You think there aren't "shithole countries"? You might check out the #AsiaBibi hashtag - though I'm happy to note at Pakistan actually released her; never let it be said that hash-tag activism doesn't pay dividends.

But I think your argument there has more holes than the proverbial Swiss cheese. Pray tell, where, precisely, has he "disparaged" the program to hire foreign workers? Methinks you have your thumb on the scales.
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: So, conclusively, Trump is a hypocrite. You won't acknowledge this, because you share that attribute. Indeed, I may be losing it simply replying to you and the Brivetard, as it is without the slightest doubt an exercise in futility. You both are only interested in pushing a narrative, and will dodge any amount of logic and reason to hold fast to your preconceived notions.
He may well be - or have been - a hypocrite; I'll cheerfully concede that IF he was NOW calling for American employers to hire only American workers - without conceding that he had fallen short on that score - THEN that would be manifest hypocrisy.

But THAT was NOT my point. It was that you claiming that his hotel - not him, himself - hiring foreign workers was manifest evidence, in itself, of that hypocrisy. Don't think you really get how a logical argument works.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1637

Post by Kirbmarc » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:49 pm

Steersman wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Steersman wrote: LoL. "And believe me, you don't want to"? Sounds like a threat, like "nice society you have, sure wouldn't want it to turn into a shithole like most Muslim countries, now would you" ....
You're thicker than usual if you believe that it was a threat rather than a warning not to go down the Nazi path.
LoL. "You keep saying that word (Nazi) ...." Why doncha double-down and call me a misogynist and racist to boot - add pedophile & "anti-disestablishmentarianist" as cherries on top ... And I DID say "sounds like ...."

But rather some distance between removing people who don't subscribe to the laws of the land - whose values are "flatly incompatible with democracy and human rights", and putting them into ovens. A distinction that seems lost on you; wonder why that might be ...

You make some credible observations about the nature of Islam in the West, and the support it finds among extremist nutcases (most of them, one might reasonably suggest - your relatives excepted of course ...) But you seem rather remarkably unwilling to consider that your suggested policies are little better than pissing against the wind, than trying to bail out the sinking Titanic with a tea cup.

Islam won't EVER reform if we turn a blind eye to the egregrious barbarism and savagery, and manifest psychosis that it entails. And challenging or threatening Muslims with deportation may actually precipitate a rather necessary and very public "full and proper discussion of Islam"; may even help precipitate a general and equally necessary discussion on religion as well.
Dude, your solutions to barbarism and savagery is more barbarism and savagery.

Are you familiar with the Nietzsche aphorism "He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster"? You immerse yourself in the worst of religious extremism, of theocracy. You read about all the nuts and the hateful ones. But you haven't been careful, and when you stared into the abyss, the abyss stared into you.

You're on a very dark path, Steers. I can't even say I'm angry at you. You're trapped inside your clichés, inside your mind. You've become a caricature of yourself.

You love looking for precise meaning and for the limits of the rational mind and the beginning of irrationality. Perhaps you should take a pause from spamming your links, and instead direct your search for meaning and irrationality to yourself. What is that drives you, Steers? What is the dictionary definition of your deep emotional attachment to your ideas? Anger? Hate?

Fear?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1638

Post by Kirbmarc » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:06 pm

Back to Trump. He's crumbling.
"Do you want him [Mark Whittaker, the new AG] to reign him Robert Muller?"

"....what a stupid question"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psl7ZVwiRl4

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1639

Post by Steersman » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:37 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Steersman wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Steersman wrote: LoL. "And believe me, you don't want to"? Sounds like a threat, like "nice society you have, sure wouldn't want it to turn into a shithole like most Muslim countries, now would you" ....
You're thicker than usual if you believe that it was a threat rather than a warning not to go down the Nazi path.
LoL. "You keep saying that word (Nazi) ...." Why doncha double-down and call me a misogynist and racist to boot - add pedophile & "anti-disestablishmentarianist" as cherries on top ... And I DID say "sounds like ...."

But rather some distance between removing people who don't subscribe to the laws of the land - whose values are "flatly incompatible with democracy and human rights", and putting them into ovens. A distinction that seems lost on you; wonder why that might be ...

You make some credible observations about the nature of Islam in the West, and the support it finds among extremist nutcases (most of them, one might reasonably suggest - your relatives excepted of course ...) But you seem rather remarkably unwilling to consider that your suggested policies are little better than pissing against the wind, than trying to bail out the sinking Titanic with a tea cup.

Islam won't EVER reform if we turn a blind eye to the egregrious barbarism and savagery, and manifest psychosis that it entails. And challenging or threatening Muslims with deportation may actually precipitate a rather necessary and very public "full and proper discussion of Islam"; may even help precipitate a general and equally necessary discussion on religion as well.
Dude, your solutions to barbarism and savagery is more barbarism and savagery.
LoL - you should try your hand at stand-up comedy since you clearly have some great lines ... ;)

So we should NEVER go to war because of the possibility of "collateral damage"? Methinks you've been living in Switzerland too long - long time since y'all have had to sacrifice blood and treasure for survival.

However, while it is, of course, a rather sad commentary on the state of human "civilization" that recourse to that is all too frequently a necessity, the brute fact of the matter is that it is, and that it tends to result in some of the all too regretable consequences.

And I certainly don't think it's much of a stretch to argue that Western civilization - such as it is - has been at war with Islam - with some few interregnums of what passes for peace - for some 1400 years:



And:
Wikipedia wrote:(Disputed): In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar, the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST : TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE.

Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. That war is yet flagrant; nor can it cease but by the extinction of that imposture, which has been permitted by Providence to prolong the degeneracy of man. While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men. The hand of Ishmael will be against every man, and every man's hand against him.
And, more credibly:
Wikipedia wrote:The precept of the koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force.
Amen to that. Maybe something we should be keeping in the forefronts of our minds. And consider that those who wish to sweep that rather stark though entirely accurate summary under the table might reasonably be construed as little better than traitors. Apropos of, you might consider reading Paul Berman's Flight of the Intellectuals, a theme that Ibn Warraq used to good effect ("Trahison des Clercs") in his Why I'm Not a Muslim.
Kirbmarc wrote: Are you familiar with the Nietzsche aphorism "He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster"? You immerse yourself in the worst of religious extremism, of theocracy. You read about all the nuts and the hateful ones. But you haven't been careful, and when you stared into the abyss, the abyss stared into you.

You're on a very dark path, Steers. I can't even say I'm angry at you. You're trapped inside your clichés, inside your mind. You've become a caricature of yourself.
Yea; think I've run across that aphorism a time or two in the past ... But I'll readily concede that while "fighting the impossible fight; fighting the unbeatable foe, righting the unrightable wrong" does have its charms - its "arrow in the blue", it also does have it's potential flaws and pitfalls - all too easy for the tail to wind up wagging the dog. But I think I'm rather some distance from being "one toke over the line" ...

As for "cliches", they of course become that way by repetition. But that hardly precludes their having, periodically at least, some utility and value - your vaunted liberal precepts for example ...
Kirbmarc wrote: You love looking for precise meaning and for the limits of the rational mind and the beginning of irrationality.
Well, I'm certainly glad that you at least noticed; gives me a warm fuzzy feeling that not all of my time here has been wasted ... ;)

But somewhat apropos of which, you might take a look at the Wikipedia article on Lewis Carroll's, "What the Tortoise Said to Achilles". Don't think many people really realize that what passes for logic and reason in their supposed "arguments" is frequently riven with spurious assumptions, and untenable if not demented rules of inference. Paraphrasing some Greek (?) philosopher, an unexamined argument isn't worth peddling, much less championing.
Kirbmarc wrote: Perhaps you should take a pause from spamming your links, and instead direct your search for meaning and irrationality to yourself. What is that drives you, Steers? What is the dictionary definition of your deep emotional attachment to your ideas? Anger? Hate?

Fear?
LoL. I'd go, somewhat sardonically, with an aphorism of (I think) Pascal who said our mono-manias can drive us like clockwork.

But I suppose all of that might qualify as a case-in-point where ad hominems might not be "fallacious", and where "questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue". So maybe a fair question as to "what drives me", what is the "deep emotional attachment to my [?] ideas". Although one might reasonably suggest that they're hardly just my ideas - nothing new under the sun, and all that - and I sure haven't been reluctant to give quite explicit, if not verbose (or pedantic), answers to that question - a salient one of which is my signature quote of Francis Bacon.

However, I might argue that I'm hardly unique in that regard - you might reflect on a phrase from the Desiderata: "many people strive for high ideals" - even you and Brive ... ;) Both of whom, I will readily concede, probably have more than a grain of truth on their sides. Although I also think you're both barking up SOME of the wrong trees, at least to some extent, and that largely due to some "unexamined assumptions", and a reluctance to face some "inconvenient truths". And, in your case, that seems to manifest itself in a reluctance to address my argument that your "solution" to the "Muslim problem" is little better than to counsel bailing out a sinking Titanic with a teacup; all you can manage, apparently - for all of your cogent analysis of the problem itself, is to move the goal posts and throw out some red herrings by questioning my motives:

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1640

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:14 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: I’m keen to understand how liberalism translates from the conceptual to the pragmatic in this wonderful world we live in. So far I’m less and less impressed as it veers left, authoritarian and towards the SJWs we all detest. I’m keen to understand how this liberalism will confront confident, aggressive non western collectives. I’m keen to see how all this will positively reinforce those distinctive national groupings we call countries.

I expected liberals to be able to convince me of their pitch. Or at least force me to challenge some of my conclusions. This is typically the role of discussion forums.

Naturally I’d never get in the way of parallel conversations.
Bullshit. Even when you are given conclusive proof of something, you slither away and change the goalposts. You're as liable to change your mind as Steersman, and your posts resemble his in more ways than one.
So far your “conclusive” evidence has been shit.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1641

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:16 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: 1. When free speech and tolerance of intolerance become the norm you can question the underpinning liberalism.
2. I’m confident that collective based national institutions are under attack.
3. I see no great hope that the modern west offers alien external cultural collectives much incentive for ‘Integration’.

But thanks for your concerns.
So if I find a non-white person that is culturally Australian, you will promise to fuck off?
I was talking about “cultural collectives” not isolated individuals. I didn’t raise race.

So “no”.

Do try to keep up.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1642

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:18 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Blind adherence to “Enlightenment values and liberal democracy” is dangerous in troubled times. They white-ant the ability of society to maintain cohesion and defend against introduced collectives.

This doesn’t mean we can’t study and value the abstract, nor does it mean we need national socialism! We do however need to be pragmatic. Redo education. Assert national celebrations without a black armband, limit immigration, be a bit more prescriptive about what immigrants have to assimilate into (starting with english). Acknowledge our Christian heritage without mandate. Tell naysayers “they are not welcome here” and isolation them in in social life. Oops. Sorry. Got a bit jackboot with that last one.

In any case. The CFB sponsored safe space is over on the main thread. Enjoy.
You are such a cunt. You were asked by many to keep it off the main, but go ahead and post your neuroses and midlife crisis boldly for all to see. A single post by Matt or aJan was worth a hundred times the best you offer, but by all means, reduce the pit to four or five dedicated right-wing reactionaries.
When did you die and turn into FT? At least you can now eliminate the moral high-ground from any future spewed invective.
I’m just someone with an opinion you disagree with.
You're not the high ground, Brive. You're a person whose extended whining has put many off. Go back and look at all the people that asked you to stop.
Presumably they are the people who have me on ignore and are pursuing alternative discussion topics ....

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1643

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:20 am

[tweet][/tweet]

Trump expects people to forget about anything he said after he's said it.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1644

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:26 am

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: 1. When free speech and tolerance of intolerance become the norm you can question the underpinning liberalism.
2. I’m confident that collective based national institutions are under attack.
3. I see no great hope that the modern west offers alien external cultural collectives much incentive for ‘Integration’.

But thanks for your concerns.
So if I find a non-white person that is culturally Australian, you will promise to fuck off?
I was talking about “cultural collectives” not isolated individuals. I didn’t raise race.

So “no”.

Do try to keep up.
What I don't get is why you thought that an Africn woman playing Jean D'Arc was "stealing European culture".

As someone who prioritizes cultural assimilation over other concerns I'd have imagined that you'd have been delighted by a successful case of integration.

Maybe there's something missing?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1645

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:00 am

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: 1. When free speech and tolerance of intolerance become the norm you can question the underpinning liberalism.
2. I’m confident that collective based national institutions are under attack.
3. I see no great hope that the modern west offers alien external cultural collectives much incentive for ‘Integration’.

But thanks for your concerns.
So if I find a non-white person that is culturally Australian, you will promise to fuck off?
I was talking about “cultural collectives” not isolated individuals. I didn’t raise race.

So “no”.

Do try to keep up.
"Cultural Collectives" is a bullshit term used by identitarians on both sides of the horseshoe. It is most certainly winky-nudgy for race, but allows a certain academic disavowal when it's called out. To say it's anything else is a rank, hypocritical lie. But you are well aware of that.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1646

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:00 am

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: 1. When free speech and tolerance of intolerance become the norm you can question the underpinning liberalism.
2. I’m confident that collective based national institutions are under attack.
3. I see no great hope that the modern west offers alien external cultural collectives much incentive for ‘Integration’.

But thanks for your concerns.
So if I find a non-white person that is culturally Australian, you will promise to fuck off?
I was talking about “cultural collectives” not isolated individuals. I didn’t raise race.

So “no”.

Do try to keep up.
"Cultural Collectives" is a bullshit term used by identitarians on both sides of the horseshoe. It is most certainly winky-nudgy for race, but allows a certain academic disavowal when it's called out. To say it's anything else is a rank, hypocritical lie. But you are well aware of that.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1647

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:42 am

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Blind adherence to “Enlightenment values and liberal democracy” is dangerous in troubled times. They white-ant the ability of society to maintain cohesion and defend against introduced collectives.

This doesn’t mean we can’t study and value the abstract, nor does it mean we need national socialism! We do however need to be pragmatic. Redo education. Assert national celebrations without a black armband, limit immigration, be a bit more prescriptive about what immigrants have to assimilate into (starting with english). Acknowledge our Christian heritage without mandate. Tell naysayers “they are not welcome here” and isolation them in in social life. Oops. Sorry. Got a bit jackboot with that last one.

In any case. The CFB sponsored safe space is over on the main thread. Enjoy.
You are such a cunt. You were asked by many to keep it off the main, but go ahead and post your neuroses and midlife crisis boldly for all to see. A single post by Matt or aJan was worth a hundred times the best you offer, but by all means, reduce the pit to four or five dedicated right-wing reactionaries.
When did you die and turn into FT? At least you can now eliminate the moral high-ground from any future spewed invective.
I’m just someone with an opinion you disagree with.
You're not the high ground, Brive. You're a person whose extended whining has put many off. Go back and look at all the people that asked you to stop.
Presumably they are the people who have me on ignore and are pursuing alternative discussion topics ....
Matt Cavanaugh, asked you to keep it off the main, now he's gone. Drokkit, Shatterface, many others. You are tedious, boring and your extended whine over "Muh precious Aussie Culture" is off-putting. Did you seriously just gloss over everybody that asked you to stop?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1648

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:57 am



What a hero. Too bad all the soldiers he was supposed to honor couldn't call off the war due to "bad weather." But I suppose they didn't have to worry about covering their baldness.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1649

Post by Steersman » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:15 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: <snip>

I was talking about “cultural collectives” not isolated individuals. I didn’t raise race.

So “no”.

Do try to keep up.
"Cultural Collectives" is a bullshit term used by identitarians on both sides of the horseshoe. It is most certainly winky-nudgy for race, but allows a certain academic disavowal when it's called out. To say it's anything else is a rank, hypocritical lie. But you are well aware of that.
LoL. Maybe you didn't get the memo that #IslamIsNotaRace?

I'm sure that you and Ally Fogg - definitely an "Antisocial justice warrior" - would be fast friends:





Maybe not surprising on Fogg's part, at least, since there's some evidence that he might be considered part of the "Sharia Bolsheviks" cohort:



And, in the interests of two-birds-one-stone, you might take a gander at this Judicial Watch article - which might reasonably be construed to be evidence of Trump's "hypocrisy" on the illegal immigration front:
In a case that helps illustrates why illegal immigrants game the system, the Trump administration is punishing a major hotel chain for refusing to hire a man that is not a lawful permanent resident or American citizen. Like countless undocumented aliens seeking quick employment, the man applied for asylum, a fraud-infested government program famously abused by foreigners to obtain work permits and other benefits in the U.S. When the New York-based hotel eliminated the asylee from the hiring process the Department of Justice (DOJ) charged it with discrimination after he filed a complaint.
Although that might also be construed as a case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing:


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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1650

Post by Mr. X, Indeed » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:16 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:

What a hero. Too bad all the soldiers he was supposed to honor couldn't call off the war due to "bad weather." But I suppose they didn't have to worry about covering their baldness.
A light rain must make those bone spurs act up.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1651

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:23 am

Steersman wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: <snip>

I was talking about “cultural collectives” not isolated individuals. I didn’t raise race.

So “no”.

Do try to keep up.
"Cultural Collectives" is a bullshit term used by identitarians on both sides of the horseshoe. It is most certainly winky-nudgy for race, but allows a certain academic disavowal when it's called out. To say it's anything else is a rank, hypocritical lie. But you are well aware of that.
LoL. Maybe you didn't get the memo that #IslamIsNotaRace?

I'm sure that you and Ally Fogg - definitely an "Antisocial justice warrior" - would be fast friends:





Maybe not surprising on Fogg's part, at least, since there's some evidence that he might be considered part of the "Sharia Bolsheviks" cohort:



And, in the interests of two-birds-one-stone, you might take a gander at this Judicial Watch article - which might reasonably be construed to be evidence of Trump's "hypocrisy" on the illegal immigration front:
In a case that helps illustrates why illegal immigrants game the system, the Trump administration is punishing a major hotel chain for refusing to hire a man that is not a lawful permanent resident or American citizen. Like countless undocumented aliens seeking quick employment, the man applied for asylum, a fraud-infested government program famously abused by foreigners to obtain work permits and other benefits in the U.S. When the New York-based hotel eliminated the asylee from the hiring process the Department of Justice (DOJ) charged it with discrimination after he filed a complaint.
Although that might also be construed as a case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing:

Show me where the term is used that isn't Post Modernist, identitarian garbage. Seriously. Ally is an idiot, I fully agree. That doesn't mean that collectivist culture crap is valid, it means that it is embraced by idiots on both sides. Are you grasping at straws, or are you just plain stupid? Why not both?

You whiners and your guilt by association fallacy, especially when you fuck it up. If you had any shame, you'd die of embarrassment.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1652

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:44 am



So, Trump is wishy-washy as to if the USA will support its allies, berates NATO allies for not pulling their weight, but gets testy when they want a stable military solution of their own. He wonders why nobody trusts him, what a surprise.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1653

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:02 pm

Rex Tillerson is a kleptocratic, corrupt appeaser of authoritarian regimes.

But you gotta hand to him, he was 100% right when he called Trump a fucking moron.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1654

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:00 pm



An interesting analysis of post-midterm Trump.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1655

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:06 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:

What a hero. Too bad all the soldiers he was supposed to honor couldn't call off the war due to "bad weather." But I suppose they didn't have to worry about covering their baldness.
Couldn't he just have a Secret Service member hold an umbrella for him? Lazy bastard.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1656

Post by Steersman » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:10 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Steersman wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: <snip>

I was talking about “cultural collectives” not isolated individuals. I didn’t raise race.

So “no”.

Do try to keep up.
"Cultural Collectives" is a bullshit term used by identitarians on both sides of the horseshoe. It is most certainly winky-nudgy for race, but allows a certain academic disavowal when it's called out. To say it's anything else is a rank, hypocritical lie. But you are well aware of that.
LoL. Maybe you didn't get the memo that #IslamIsNotaRace?

I'm sure that you and Ally Fogg - definitely an "Antisocial justice warrior" - would be fast friends:



https: ... twitter.com/AllyFogg/status/1027115690728275968

Maybe not surprising on Fogg's part, at least, since there's some evidence that he might be considered part of the "Sharia Bolsheviks" cohort:



And, in the interests of two-birds-one-stone, you might take a gander at this Judicial Watch article - which might reasonably be construed to be evidence of Trump's "hypocrisy" on the illegal immigration front:
In a case that helps illustrates why illegal immigrants game the system, the Trump administration is punishing a major hotel chain for refusing to hire a man that is not a lawful permanent resident or American citizen. Like countless undocumented aliens seeking quick employment, the man applied for asylum, a fraud-infested government program famously abused by foreigners to obtain work permits and other benefits in the U.S. When the New York-based hotel eliminated the asylee from the hiring process the Department of Justice (DOJ) charged it with discrimination after he filed a complaint.
Although that might also be construed as a case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing:

https: ... twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1061068337625645056
Show me where the term is used that isn't Post Modernist, identitarian garbage.
Ask [Google] and it shall be given, knock and the door shall be opened:
This racialisation is imagined in line with the "terrorism" tropes peddled by right-wing proponents like Trump, Bill Maher and indeed Roseanne, who correctly claims that "Islam is not a race" but routinely treats it as such, and frames it as inherently suspicious - on television and in real life.
And at Al Jazeera no less, and by one Khaled A Beydoun.

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: Seriously. Ally is an idiot, I fully agree.
Glad we agree on that much - progress ...
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: That doesn't mean that collectivist culture crap is valid, it means that it is embraced by idiots on both sides.
You and Kirbmarc sure do seem to find it difficult to accept the concept of collective responsibility - see the linked Wikipedia article, even if it isn't up to their normal standards. And you might note the observations of Asra Nomani, a fairly credible Muslim reformer:

AsraNomani_RupertMurdock_SctnMod.jpg
(80.17 KiB) Downloaded 80 times

And you might also take a look at Jordan Peterson on Solzhenitsyn, the man who destroyed the Soviet Union; I had provided a link in a tweet (above) to a Quillette article but seems they've deleted it; copyright issues, I expect, or maybe duplicate publications which Quillette objects to.

But my point there was that both Islam and Bolshevism are heavy on the "collectivist culture crap" - Muslims with their ulama, Communists with their proletariat. Likewise with many feminists with their patriarchy. All manifestations of the apotheosis of the collective.
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: Are you grasping at straws, or are you just plain stupid? Why not both?

You whiners and your guilt by association fallacy, especially when you fuck it up. If you had any shame, you'd die of embarrassment.
LoL. Careful there or you'll have an attack of apoplexy ...

As for "guilt by association", see Nomani above; just promulgating an ipse dixit that it is a "fallacy" hardly makes it so.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1657

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:34 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: 1. When free speech and tolerance of intolerance become the norm you can question the underpinning liberalism.
2. I’m confident that collective based national institutions are under attack.
3. I see no great hope that the modern west offers alien external cultural collectives much incentive for ‘Integration’.

But thanks for your concerns.
So if I find a non-white person that is culturally Australian, you will promise to fuck off?
I was talking about “cultural collectives” not isolated individuals. I didn’t raise race.

So “no”.

Do try to keep up.
What I don't get is why you thought that an Africn woman playing Jean D'Arc was "stealing European culture".

As someone who prioritizes cultural assimilation over other concerns I'd have imagined that you'd have been delighted by a successful case of integration.

Maybe there's something missing?
Kirb you have really got to curb ( :rimshot: ) your inaccurate use of quotation marks. People might mistake incompetence for a malicious agenda.

My point was (and remains) that a pomo approach to history is not “assimilation” it’s liberal terraforming or rather, it’s peak civic nationalism where reality has no business interfering with abstract values.

https://ageofshitlords.com/wp-content/u ... oa-mlk.jpg

https://ageofshitlords.com/wp-content/u ... andela.jpg

https://ageofshitlords.com/wp-content/u ... -Frank.jpg

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1658

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:59 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh, asked you to keep it off the main, now he's gone. Drokkit, Shatterface, many others. You are tedious, boring and your extended whine over "Muh precious Aussie Culture" is off-putting. Did you seriously just gloss over everybody that asked you to stop?
Matt’s been MIA since the peripheral KMan preppie discussion. In any case he found Kirb as, if not more, tedious.
Shatterface obviously needed a mental rest. He was finally triggered to leave when FT was mean to him. :x

Since I was de-greened there’s zero excuse for not getting on with parallel conversations. If that’s no happening, you will need to dig deeper.

But please, your victim narrative on behalf of the Pit is unbecoming.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1659

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:15 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: 1. When free speech and tolerance of intolerance become the norm you can question the underpinning liberalism.
2. I’m confident that collective based national institutions are under attack.
3. I see no great hope that the modern west offers alien external cultural collectives much incentive for ‘Integration’.

But thanks for your concerns.
So if I find a non-white person that is culturally Australian, you will promise to fuck off?
I was talking about “cultural collectives” not isolated individuals. I didn’t raise race.

So “no”.

Do try to keep up.
"Cultural Collectives" is a bullshit term used by identitarians on both sides of the horseshoe. It is most certainly winky-nudgy for race, but allows a certain academic disavowal when it's called out. To say it's anything else is a rank, hypocritical lie. But you are well aware of that.
I know one when I see one.

Strong alien version:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... 4tDSUwjeSQ



Benign native version:






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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1660

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:33 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: 1. When free speech and tolerance of intolerance become the norm you can question the underpinning liberalism.
2. I’m confident that collective based national institutions are under attack.
3. I see no great hope that the modern west offers alien external cultural collectives much incentive for ‘Integration’.

But thanks for your concerns.
So if I find a non-white person that is culturally Australian, you will promise to fuck off?
I was talking about “cultural collectives” not isolated individuals. I didn’t raise race.

So “no”.

Do try to keep up.
"Cultural Collectives" is a bullshit term used by identitarians on both sides of the horseshoe. It is most certainly winky-nudgy for race, but allows a certain academic disavowal when it's called out. To say it's anything else is a rank, hypocritical lie. But you are well aware of that.
I know one when I see one.

Strong alien version:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... 4tDSUwjeSQ



Benign native version:





So, yes, winky-nudgy race. Glad we agree on something.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1661

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:40 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh, asked you to keep it off the main, now he's gone. Drokkit, Shatterface, many others. You are tedious, boring and your extended whine over "Muh precious Aussie Culture" is off-putting. Did you seriously just gloss over everybody that asked you to stop?
Matt’s been MIA since the peripheral KMan preppie discussion. In any case he found Kirb as, if not more, tedious.
Shatterface obviously needed a mental rest. He was finally triggered to leave when FT was mean to him. :x

Since I was de-greened there’s zero excuse for not getting on with parallel conversations. If that’s no happening, you will need to dig deeper.

But please, your victim narrative on behalf of the Pit is unbecoming.
So what about all the people that asked you to keep it to the side thread, or inquired after your mental health? PiginTheCity, Tigzy, Phil, etc? You just wanna be the asshole that plows ahead, because, your "Muh poor Bogan culture" trumps everybody else's wishes? Nice.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1662

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:54 pm

Also, I wouldn't denigrate Kirbmarc's command of the English language, were I you. Despite it not being his native tongue, his command of grammar, punctuation and spelling exceeds both of our own poor efforts. Many of your posts lately are nearly unreadable messes, and you force people to guess at your ultimate meaning, so being tetchy about quotation marks seems very petty.

Also, you really didn't answer his question, but engaged in a bit of disingenuous whataboutery with memes from white nationalist websites. After you earlier engaged in a form of second-hand guilt by association for deciding if my opinion coincided with a SJW, it must be wrong. Because of the association.

Interesting. Do go on.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1663

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:21 am

Oh I was being quite polite to Kirb. If I channeled yourself I’d have couched it as “you are such a cunt for attributing fake quotes to me”.

I did answer him, his question pivoted off a fake quote.

I really won’t be using your reading comprehension as a benchmark for the quality of my comments. :lol:

I just did you the unrequited courtesy of listening to the FG podcast. It was everything I imagined it to be.
But I can see you have found your intersection with SJWism.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1664

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:25 am

Also, do you find Zulu culture to be all about “winky nudge race” . Betcha don’t. :whistle:

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1665

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:29 am

Brive1987 wrote: Oh I was being quite polite to Kirb. If I channeled yourself I’d have couched it as “you are such a cunt for attributing fake quotes to me”.

I did answer him, his question pivoted off a fake quote.

I really won’t be using your reading comprehension as a benchmark for the quality of my comments. :lol:

I just did you the unrequited courtesy of listening to the FG podcast. It was everything I imagined it to be.
But I can see you have found your intersection with SJWism.
Don't you wish. I criticize the regressive left all the time. More than half my Twitter followers and people I follow are right-wing. My tweets indicate a strong commitment to values, not ideology. You? Not so much. Simple-minded parroting of whatever Trumpian talking points are hot today. You are a partisan hack. You know this.

This is why I brought up your kids. You are a mean-spirited partisan with delusions of competence. You can't even convince your own children of your ideological goals, so you bitch and whine, and act surprised and shocked when somebody contradicts you here. On a forum populated by skeptics, you find ideological bullshit challenged.

What a tragedy!

You can always put me on ignore. But you thrive on attention.

What a shame.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1666

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:31 am

Brive1987 wrote: Also, do you find Zulu culture to be all about “winky nudge race” . Betcha don’t. :whistle:
Yes, why the fuck would I not? Jesus, are you crazy or retarded?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1667

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:36 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:25 am
Also, do you find Zulu culture to be all about “winky nudge race” . Betcha don’t. :whistle:
See, this is your problem. You've divided the world into people that are on your side and people that are on mine. That is the limit of your nuance. So when anything remotely complicated comes along, you simply choose the opposite of what you would choose. If a regressive-left person would would say or do something, you reactively choose the opposite, regardless of the relative merits of that statement or position.

This would be instructive of the dangers of tribalism, but I so show doubt you'll see it that way. I will leave the pondering as to reasons why up to you.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1668

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:39 am

"But I doubt" not "I so show" was what I typed before spell check decided I was wrong.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1669

Post by MarcusAu » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:06 am

The reason I brought up Brive's family in the past - is that by his account they all lean less conservative than he does - placing them in what some would call the 'libtard' category - and thus they are a ready-made petri dish of guinea pigs to serve as a sounding board for his ideas.

And if he remains unsatisfied with the response received there - there is no reason to expect a difference in kind elsewhere. Although that said - there must be forums where these political ideas are discussed more in depth and with the rigor he expects than this one.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1670

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:23 am

Brive1987 wrote: Oh I was being quite polite to Kirb. If I channeled yourself I’d have couched it as “you are such a cunt for attributing fake quotes to me”.

I did answer him, his question pivoted off a fake quote.

I really won’t be using your reading comprehension as a benchmark for the quality of my comments. :lol:

I just did you the unrequited courtesy of listening to the FG podcast. It was everything I imagined it to be.
But I can see you have found your intersection with SJWism.
It wasn't a quote. It was never intended. It was a paraphrase. I know you're being anal about Australian standards, but in other countries paraphrases are often put between marks. I've often paraphrased or parodied PZ Myers with sentences between marks. No one here raised a peep and said that those were "fake quotes".

If I want to quote you, I put you between real QUOTE brackets. Like this:
So there is the issue with Joan. One website says there were 4 criteria, only 1 of which is anchored in objectivity. Orleans resident, 10 year duration, high school student, catholic. Presumably males are not discriminated against. Or maybe it would be ridiculous to have a dick wielding Joan? Once you go down this path things get sticky. Another site quotes the girl as saying “what is important is that she's French." Apparently now Catholicism and gender is optional. Of cause being “French” begs another question.

In short we need to consider .. if integrating multi cultures requires removing the base meaning of institutions - is that actual progress? Especially if the motifs of the introduced cultures remain inviolable? Meh. Questions without clear answers.
By the way, care to explain how do you think that a woman of African descent playing Jean D'Arc in a city fair is removing the base meaning of institutions, or why do you think it's questionable that someone with French nationality is French if they're of African descent, as you implied by saying that being French in that case begged another question?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1671

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:11 am

By the way, the case of the French girl of African ancestry playing Jean D'Arc wasn't
a pomo approach to history
She didn't play Jean D'Arc in a movie. The role was never intended to be a historically accurate representation of the past. She was part of a fair celebrating French culture. It was basically cultural cosplay. It's not intended to say "this is how Jean D'Arc looked", it's about giving people a chance to take part in an event celebrating cultural trappings.

Yet you posted a tweet from that doofus neo-Nazi Mark Collett, who was worrying about how the black girl playing Jean D'Arc was stealing European culture, and basically nodded along, wondering about how this was
removing the base meaning of institutions
Your fictional posters are about hypothetical MOVIES, which are supposed to be historically accurate, at least to a reasonable degree. They're also about figures whose specific ancestry was central to their stories. Luther King and Mandela fought for the civil rights of black people. Anne Frank was oppressed and killed for being Jewish.

Jean D'Arc's story was about the creation of French national spirit, not about ancestry per se. Indeed, if we want to get technical, there's already been a movie about Jean D'Arc, directed and written by a Frenchman (Luc Besson) where the role of Jean D'Arc was played by the Ukrainian-American Milla Jovovich. Granted, it was a crappy movie, but nobody cared that an Ukrainian-American woman was playing a French heroine. :think:

A black Jean D'Arc in a movie would look ridiculously historically inaccurate, but it wouldn't be subverting the entire point of the story like in the case of a white MLK or Mandela, or a black Anne Frank.

The case discussed it wasn't about a movie, though. It wasn't about historic accuracy. Nobody said that Jean D'Arc was actually black. It was about symbolism, about a festival of French culture. Since you are someone who's interested in preserving culture I can't figure out what you found so negative about it. I imagined that in such a case you'd have been delighted to see such an example of cultural assimilation. Instead you sided with Mark Collett in frowning and wondering about the base meaning of institutions that is somehow removed.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1672

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:27 am

So basically, I can ASSUME, from your posts, that for you:

a) what is important is culture, not race, and you're worried about cultural issues between immigrants and natives

b) but someone of a visible different ancestry/race being celebrating the local culture is, in your words, liberal terraforming, or rather it's peak civic nationalism where reality has no business interfering with abstract values

Am I wrong? Is this not what you mean?

So what should a non-European immigrant to an European-ancestry majority country do? If they isolate and don't assimilate they're forming cultural silos, and that's bad. But if they integrate and assimilate to the point of being interested in playing a symbol of the local culture,that's terraforming and also bad.

It's as if you think that people of non-European ancestry shouldn't be in European-ancestry majority countries after all. Yet different European origins seem to mix together fine, since Italian or Greek immigrants to Australia are not an issue.

Would a French girl of Italian or Greek or Polish or Danish or Finnish ancestry playing Jean D'Arc in a cultural fair be liberal terraforming or peak civic nationalism as well? :think:

Pardon me, but I'm not sure I agree with you 100% on your cultural philosophical work there, Brive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDxEvdICKnw

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1673

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:42 am


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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1674

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:07 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:23 am
Brive1987 wrote: Oh I was being quite polite to Kirb. If I channeled yourself I’d have couched it as “you are such a cunt for attributing fake quotes to me”.

I did answer him, his question pivoted off a fake quote.

I really won’t be using your reading comprehension as a benchmark for the quality of my comments. :lol:

I just did you the unrequited courtesy of listening to the FG podcast. It was everything I imagined it to be.
But I can see you have found your intersection with SJWism.
It wasn't a quote. It was never intended. It was a paraphrase. I know you're being anal about Australian standards, but in other countries paraphrases are often put between marks. I've often paraphrased or parodied PZ Myers with sentences between marks. No one here raised a peep and said that those were "fake quotes".

If I want to quote you, I put you between real QUOTE brackets. Like this:
So there is the issue with Joan. One website says there were 4 criteria, only 1 of which is anchored in objectivity. Orleans resident, 10 year duration, high school student, catholic. Presumably males are not discriminated against. Or maybe it would be ridiculous to have a dick wielding Joan? Once you go down this path things get sticky. Another site quotes the girl as saying “what is important is that she's French." Apparently now Catholicism and gender is optional. Of cause being “French” begs another question.

In short we need to consider .. if integrating multi cultures requires removing the base meaning of institutions - is that actual progress? Especially if the motifs of the introduced cultures remain inviolable? Meh. Questions without clear answers.
By the way, care to explain how do you think that a woman of African descent playing Jean D'Arc in a city fair is removing the base meaning of institutions, or why do you think it's questionable that someone with French nationality is French if they're of African descent, as you implied by saying that being French in that case begged another question?
No. The use of quotation marks to designate a non quote is not cricket. https://www.grammarly.com/blog/quotation-marks/

This usage does not approach the meaning of “scare quotes” and to a third party it would be indistinguishable from an actual quote.

As in.

When Kirb indicates (via his posts) that he is a proud ‘Swiss ethno-nationalist’, well we need reconsider our opinion of him.

Re Joan. My origininal (quoted) point is as clear now as it was then. A multiculti Joan is pushing civic nationalism into history. This person (and surrounding events) become abstract symbols with a fluid pomo non-reality. I get it that you think this is wonderful.

I don’t.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1675

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:14 pm


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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1676

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:24 pm

https://www.scribendi.com/advice/how_to ... ss.en.html
Protip: Unnecessary use of obscure jargon and prolix language doesn't make you look smart. It makes you look like someone trying to convince others that you are really smart and profound.
see: pretentious windbag

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1677

Post by MarcusAu » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:30 pm

I believe that Elmore Leonard put it that he never met an adjective that he did not want to strangle to death.

But don't quote me on that.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1678

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:58 pm

Brive1987 wrote: Re Joan. My origininal (quoted) point is as clear now as it was then. A multiculti Joan is pushing civic nationalism into history. This person (and surrounding events) become abstract symbols with a fluid pomo non-reality. I get it that you think this is wonderful.

I don’t.
Do you think that someone cosplaying as a historical figure means that people are going to believe that this how the historical figure looked like?

Or is the problem simply that of the cultural appropriation someone not "ethnic French" cosplaying as Jean D'Arc? If so, is Milla Yovovich similarly problematic since she played Jean and is of Ukrainian ancestry? Would a French girl of Italian ancestry be OK cosplaying as Joan, or too multi-culti fluid po-mo? What about a French girl of Finnish ancestry? Or of Turkish ancestry? Or of Russian ancestry? When does one draw the line, according to your position? And why?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1679

Post by MarcusAu » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:09 pm

I enjoyed 'The Count of Monte Christo' and various 'Three Musketeers' stories - even though they could be interpreted as being partly culturally 'non-french' - if the authors ancestry is taken into account.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#1680

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:27 pm

MarcusAu wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:09 pm
I enjoyed 'The Count of Monte Christo' and various 'Three Musketeers' stories - even though they could be interpreted as being partly culturally 'non-french' - if the authors ancestry is taken into account.
Alexandre Dumas was a multi-culti po-mo fluid French AND a French cultural icon :bjarte:

I too enjoyed his works a lot, and think that acceptance of his multi-culti po-mo fluid French identity is a very good thing.

But then again I'm a supporter of namby-pampy civic nationalism, so there's that. :snooty:

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