The Trump Dump!

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free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#481

Post by free thoughtpolice »

A wall won't make a difference to the drugs getting smuggled in. at least not the expensive , dangerous ones, like heroin, cocaine,and meth. They will come in through ports, airports and under or over walls with drones or moles. The Wall is just a BS thing that a huckster has sold to the willing.
And Mexico will pay for it!

Clarence
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#482

Post by Clarence »

free thoughtpolice wrote: A wall won't make a difference to the drugs getting smuggled in. at least not the expensive , dangerous ones, like heroin, cocaine,and meth. They will come in through ports, airports and under or over walls with drones or moles. The Wall is just a BS thing that a huckster has sold to the willing.
And Mexico will pay for it!
Oh , how brilliant!
Mexico will pay for it with a fee or tax on renumerated income.

If you have appropriate amounts of sensors and the thing is deep enough, there ain't going to be any 'digging under' the wall.
Motion sensor cameras can capture most flying drones.

Nope, I dare say a properly constructed wall could reduce drugs from land based over the border methods by 99 percent. And the majority that DID get through at that point would be because of bribed agents and nothing else. Are their other ways to get drugs into the USA other than the southern border land route? Of course, but they tend to be more expensive and more hazardous.

This is a good thing.
Of course drugs can be produced here.
I'm hardly some big drug warrior as- except for the criminal gangs and related crime and the occasional drunken or drugged up asshole that causes an accident- I basically don't care about what some adult puts in their body. But while I'd prefer treatment (and maybe places where people could go to take recreational drugs like pot and LSD legally) instead of our current drug war, I'll take ANYTHING that will reduce the overall supply of both drugs and drug footsoldiers. And a properly built wall will do that.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#483

Post by free thoughtpolice »

If you have appropriate amounts of sensors and the thing is deep enough, there ain't going to be any 'digging under' the wall.
Motion sensor cameras can capture most flying drones.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36099336
Suppose you make the wall extend 50 feet underground. Instead of 46 feet deep they make the tunnel 51 feet deep. You've made the wall a hell of a lot more expensive for nothing. How much per mile do you think it would cost to do that?
There probably are sections of the border where it would be practical to wall or fence it off in combination with other resources but it still won't stop that percentage of drugs coming through legit crossings hidden in freight or modified vehicles.
As for motion sensors detecting drones, presumably radar sites. You need a lot of them and you need to to be able to tell the difference between drones and birds or you will be sending a lot of border patrol agents on literal wild goose chases.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN15O2ZN

Clarence
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#484

Post by Clarence »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:55 am
If you have appropriate amounts of sensors and the thing is deep enough, there ain't going to be any 'digging under' the wall.
Motion sensor cameras can capture most flying drones.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36099336
Suppose you make the wall extend 50 feet underground. Instead of 46 feet deep they make the tunnel 51 feet deep. You've made the wall a hell of a lot more expensive for nothing. How much per mile do you think it would cost to do that?
There probably are sections of the border where it would be practical to wall or fence it off in combination with other resources but it still won't stop that percentage of drugs coming through legit crossings hidden in freight or modified vehicles.
As for motion sensors detecting drones, presumably radar sites. You need a lot of them and you need to to be able to tell the difference between drones and birds or you will be sending a lot of border patrol agents on literal wild goose chases.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN15O2ZN
How deep can they dig under the wall without being picked up by vibration sensors? you do know its not trivial for people to dig 50 feet holes (a hell of a lot easier to do something like that when you are doing a large project like building a wall with lots of engineers and construction equpment. And the more equpment you need the easier it is to find and stop your 'tunneling' efforts)?

And the technology exists today to differentiate between drones and birds. And since you'd have lots of cameras and things tied together you could look at the 'alert' remotely before you had to be deployed to investigate it. Someone looking on a good infrared image could probably easily tell the diference between the drone and a bird, even if computer algorithms couldn't be designed to do it artificially. To be fair, y ou could then make your drones look like birds but those aren't drones you buy off the shelf and it might be hard to impossible to get them to fly with passable flapping wings.

I seem to be imagining an 'intelligent wall' with lots of different electronic and human systems working together utilizing lessons learned from walls in places like Israel (which seems to work pretty damn well) and increases in technology, whereas you seem to be imagining a big, dumb, rebuilt version of the Berlin Wall probably with Drumpf faces engraved on it every mile or so.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#485

Post by free thoughtpolice »

There are about 5 million semis per year crossing the US Mexico border and approx. 1 million people per day crossing through legal crossings.
Kind of tough to make sure there is 0 drug smuggling going on via that route or that 100% of the people going through the border will not just decide to stay illegally.
Even if the wall could be as effective as you think it isn't going to stop 99% of the smuggling. If there is enough money in it they will get under, over, through, or around it.
What will end the weed smuggling is legalization. Cocaine smugglers will find a way to get it in and the opioid problem right now isn't coming from Mexico , it's coming through the mail from China.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#486

Post by VickyCaramel »

free thoughtpolice wrote: There are about 5 million semis per year crossing the US Mexico border and approx. 1 million people per day crossing through legal crossings.
Kind of tough to make sure there is 0 drug smuggling going on via that route or that 100% of the people going through the border will not just decide to stay illegally.
Even if the wall could be as effective as you think it isn't going to stop 99% of the smuggling. If there is enough money in it they will get under, over, through, or around it.
What will end the weed smuggling is legalization. Cocaine smugglers will find a way to get it in and the opioid problem right now isn't coming from Mexico , it's coming through the mail from China.
Not that I am in favour of spending money and effort on preventing drug smuggling, but as is the case with the illegal immigration, the wall does not stand in isolation. It sends a clear message that the US is serious, along with all the other measures which are demonstrating that Trump is doing something about immigration. If you have a situation where anyone can just cross over an open border it doesn't really show that you are trying. But if you build the kind of wall that would make China envious, tighten up procedures at crossings, ports and airports and start sending immigrants back, it kinda shows you mean business.

If your argument is basically, "Why bother locking the back door, they will just climb through a window", it's a nonsense. And as the "why bother trying" argument isn't convincing, what you are actually doing is strengthening the argument for more deportations as this seems to be the method which is most effective both as a way to cure the problem and as a deterrent.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#487

Post by Shatterface »

Mexicans coming over the border with semis is why Trump needs to build a wall.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#488

Post by free thoughtpolice »

If your argument is basically, "Why bother locking the back door, they will just climb through a window", it's a nonsense.
That wasn't my argument.
I was disputing that a wall would stop 99% of drug smuggling. It may cut back on the overland drug smuggling to some extent and will make it more difficult for illegal immigrants to enter. As I wrote above an actual wall I think would be helpful on some parts of the border but to build a wall without increasing the people and tech to patrol it would only slow down the breaches. Better to take a significant chunk of the $26 billion plus and spend it on things like aircraft and more cops. If you want fewer illegal migrants then make a real effort to stop businesses from hiring undocumented workers.
The legalization of marijuana in some states has already caused a drastic decline in Mexico's production and smuggling of cannabis. Meanwhile, look out for increased poppy cultivation and heroin getting cheaper and competing with fentanyl from China.
Take a good chunk of the money from 2000 miles of wall, build some of it in appropriate places but take the rest for tech solutions, manpower, and developing better addiction treatments.

Clarence
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#489

Post by Clarence »

First on the alleged Dutch Evidence (which I find very hard to believe):
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... e-dnc-hack

Why do I find it hard to believe? For the simple reason that we have seen a concerted effort (that seems to be failing) to justify spying on Trump both with and without a warrant and before the election occured. The latest prior to this was that dude and the Australian ambassador. Apparently our Intelligence agencies would have us believe that dinner table gossip justifieds a massive intelligence collection campaign and most probably breaking many laws. Now that seems to have fizzled, so we get this.

The other thing that seems unbelievable is the camera thing. There is no way in HELL you are going to convince me that Russian spooks would leave their monitoring system on the internet. Thus the only way the Dutch could have such footage is if they either physically hacked the system (planted bugs in the building or near it) or had their own double agent.


As pointed out : right now this is unsourced and the agencies involved refuse to confirm or deny. Clever.


free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#491

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Clarence; from your own source:
If the story is correct, it explains why the U.S. intelligence community's assessment of Russian interference provided scant evidence. If the information came from AIVD, the secrets weren't the Americans' to disclose. It also explains why the Federal Bureau of Investigation, by its own admission, never examined the DNC servers that had been penetrated, seemingly relying on data from Crowdstrike. If it had all the technical evidence from the Dutch, it may not have needed to look at the servers.
I've frequently heard from people that doubt that the Russians did any hacking, "where's the evidence", "why don't they make it public".
There is your explanation.
As for the article from The Federalist:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/federalist-nation/
I don't believe them any more than the daily KOs, everydayfeminism, or Pharyngula.

Clarence
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#492

Post by Clarence »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:37 pm
Clarence; from your own source:
If the story is correct, it explains why the U.S. intelligence community's assessment of Russian interference provided scant evidence. If the information came from AIVD, the secrets weren't the Americans' to disclose. It also explains why the Federal Bureau of Investigation, by its own admission, never examined the DNC servers that had been penetrated, seemingly relying on data from Crowdstrike. If it had all the technical evidence from the Dutch, it may not have needed to look at the servers.
I've frequently heard from people that doubt that the Russians did any hacking, "where's the evidence", "why don't they make it public".
There is your explanation.
As for the article from The Federalist:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/federalist-nation/
I don't believe them any more than the daily KOs, everydayfeminism, or Pharyngula.
I have never doubted the Russians did "some hacking". Like pretty much every freaking country in the world does (including 'allies" such as Israel) they hack us and we hack them and everyone pretends to be all shocked when it is discovered , that, for instance, the US had a bug on Merkel, or some Russians got hold of an idiotic US congresscritters (plenty of idiots in Congress) private email. You'll also notice from my link that "The Dutch Proved It" raises almost as many questions as it answers.

The questions are, did they do the Democratic server? Or was that most likely Seth Rich?
Did they COORDINATE with the Trump campaign? Understand this: I will believe Julian Assange over any of our recent intelligence chiefs (Obama appointees) when it comes to the Seth Rich thing IF he ever bothers to clarify who gave him that information, because for all the attacks on Wikileaks no one ever accused them of lying. And notice that( 1) does not necessarily lead to ( 2).

So far, no real evidence has emerged that the Russians hacked the DNC (unless this pans out, nothing else has)let alone coordinated with Trump, changed anyone's votes or had such a massive influence on social media that Rust Belt states flipped.

So no, unless every single part of this alleged evidence is made public, I won't believe it, anymore than you will believe the Republicans if they don't end up releasing that memo and at least some references to whatever intelligence went into it and that Nunes was referring to. Some believe it was the Presidential Daily Briefings that the Obama Administration sent far and wide all over his administration. If someone saw information in those briefings referencing the Trump campaign that was not related to any Russian investigation...Well, I'll let you work it out.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#493

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Assange said he would turn himself in to US authorities if Obama let Chelsea Manning out of jail. He lied.
He said he didn't get the info from Boris and Natasha, yet at one point Sputnik released a Clinton email before it appeared on Wikileaks. He worked for Russian propaganda outlet RT. He arranged for Snowden to go to Russia. I don't trust Assange. He hates the west, and even Greenwald has distanced form the selective leaking Assange has done. Never a bad word about Russia, Venezuala, or countries not aligned with US/ western powers. If he doesn't outright work for Russia he is being used by them. If you want to trust a Russian stooge, go ahead.
The DC cops and Rich's family believe his death was a mugging gone wrong. Apparently DC has a lot of armed robberies. If the info had already been given to wikileaks what would be the point of Hitwoman Hillary rubbing him out as the conspiracy theorists surmise?
By the way, have you any idea why so many of Trump's people lied about having contact with Russians even though some of them put themselves in legal jeopardy by doing it?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#494

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

https://www.lawfareblog.com/dont-expect ... ytime-soon
Testimony under oath about the obstruction charges would be a bloodbath for Trump. The president has told serial lies about his conversations with Comey, whose account is in any case backed by contemporaneous evidence and, it would appear, the testimony of Trump-camp insiders such as Reince Priebus.

Mueller’s team will meticulously serve up each of those lies back to Trump, forcing him either to disavow them (adding to the obstruction case) or recommit to them (adding perjury counts to Mueller’s ledger). And Trump is arrogant and easily goaded, making him a prosecutor’s dream.
[....]
Eventually Nixon and Clinton were pushed into corners from which they could not escape. Assume the day comes when Trump has no more room to maneuver. The courts have ruled against him, the subpoena has been upheld, the grand jury has assembled. Trump still has one more thing going for him: his apparent contempt for the Constitution. Clinton, like Nixon, was ultimately conscious of the institutional legacy of office; Trump seems indifferent to, even derisive of, such high-minded concerns, and his political base consistently rewards him for his churlishness.

Thus, one cannot assume that, if his presidency were on the line, Trump would respond in a presidential way to a court order to testify. His political instincts are the opposite: Create a big mess, blame others, and see what happens.
[....]
Trump is the chaos president. Trying to anticipate his reaction, especially when he is facing a mortal challenge to his presidency, is like trying to predict the movements of a tropical storm. But there is one takeaway point: Do not count on his raising his right hand any time soon.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#495

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Clarence wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:14 pm
I dare say a properly constructed wall could reduce drugs from land based over the border methods by 99 percent. And the majority that DID get through at that point would be because of bribed agents and nothing else. Are their other ways to get drugs into the USA other than the southern border land route? Of course, but they tend to be more expensive and more hazardous.
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Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#496

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

I first thought that trump was very clever with his wall, that he knew it was impractical and was just using it as a symbolic bit of demagoguery to motivate the knuckle-draggers ignorant enough to vote for him. Then I realized he is completely fucking mental and out of touch with reality, and really thinks building a wall would work. Just like how he thinks stealth fighters are invisible like Wonder Woman's plane:


free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#497

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Stop strawmanning! He was talking about the F52! That I can tell you. :twatson:

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#498

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

I haven't had the time to come by this thread for a long while. Seemed sensible towards the end, until I realized I have Vicky and Clarence on ignore.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#499

Post by free thoughtpolice »


Clarence
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#500

Post by Clarence »

free thoughtpolice wrote: Assange said he would turn himself in to US authorities if Obama let Chelsea Manning out of jail. He lied.
He said he didn't get the info from Boris and Natasha, yet at one point Sputnik released a Clinton email before it appeared on Wikileaks. He worked for Russian propaganda outlet RT. He arranged for Snowden to go to Russia. I don't trust Assange. He hates the west, and even Greenwald has distanced form the selective leaking Assange has done. Never a bad word about Russia, Venezuala, or countries not aligned with US/ western powers. If he doesn't outright work for Russia he is being used by them. If you want to trust a Russian stooge, go ahead.
The DC cops and Rich's family believe his death was a mugging gone wrong. Apparently DC has a lot of armed robberies. If the info had already been given to wikileaks what would be the point of Hitwoman Hillary rubbing him out as the conspiracy theorists surmise?
By the way, have you any idea why so many of Trump's people lied about having contact with Russians even though some of them put themselves in legal jeopardy by doing it?
Assange has every reason in the world to hate the US government which seems to think he is some sort of Serf who owes them loyalty and shouldn't release their dirty laundry even though he's not a US citizen. In order to shut him up they in effect were hoping to use (or more likely downright conspired) with radical feminists in Sweden (the second prosecutor to take the case) for a phoney rape charge (Anna Ardin and Sofia Wilen I still know those names of the alleged victims and they both wanted the case dropped) in order to extradite him to the US for indictments which have been unders seal now since 2010! It doesn't help we also have the Death Penalty here. He owes us shit. Clapper and Comey, on the other hand, owe us loyalty and truth under oath and I don't see you calling for their heads. And it's the sick state of the US's political oligarchy that freaking Snowden (who should be pardoned and come home to a heros welcome because secrecy does NOT trump the Constitution) had to freaking go to Russia in the first place! Esp with Obama who ran The Most Open Administration in History who just happened to prosecute all the whistleblowers and not reform any of the intelligence agencies... Once again, I don't know where you get your priorities.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#501

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Actually Clarence, I would like to see Comey called in to account for the the disgraceful partisan behavior he showed a few days before the election.
He revealed they were looking into Tony Weiner's emails to see if Hillary had raped any kids, turned out nothing. To Comey's (dis)credit, although he was happy to cast a shadow over Clinton, he had enough loyalty to the repubs that he didn't reveal they were investigating Trump.
That could have had a big effect, maybe changed the result. He probably helped Trump and still got fired.
I'm not sure what Clapper did that was illegal. Did he lie about talking to Russians? Maybe he laundered money for the Russian Mafia and then lied about having contacts later.
Who owes who loyalty? Loyalty to the state and the people and not loyalty to a person, what do you think?

Clarence
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#502

Post by Clarence »

free thoughtpolice wrote: Actually Clarence, I would like to see Comey called in to account for the the disgraceful partisan behavior he showed a few days before the election.
He revealed they were looking into Tony Weiner's emails to see if Hillary had raped any kids, turned out nothing. To Comey's (dis)credit, although he was happy to cast a shadow over Clinton, he had enough loyalty to the repubs that he didn't reveal they were investigating Trump.
That could have had a big effect, maybe changed the result. He probably helped Trump and still got fired.
I'm not sure what Clapper did that was illegal. Did he lie about talking to Russians? Maybe he laundered money for the Russian Mafia and then lied about having contacts later.
Who owes who loyalty? Loyalty to the state and the people and not loyalty to a person, what do you think?
Yeah, keep dreaming that "Hillary's emails" was either a real investigation or that bringing it up (only to dismiss it again soon after) hurt Hillary enough to turn the election.

As for Clapper, you should be ashamed of yourself: https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/20 ... ry-charges

He owes it the Constitution and the people of these United States to not lie to their representatives about what the hell his agency is doing with collection and retention of citizen data.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#503

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Well Clarence, the reopening of the email investigation wasn't a small thing for Trump. He jumped on it like a Hollywood producer on a hot young starlet and used it as his main talking point in the last days of his campaign. He obviously thought it was a big thing.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#504

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Bringing Clapper into this is just more whataboutism. Why did Trump and his cronies lie about the Russians Clarence?
I haven'r heard an answer to that one yet.

Clarence
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#505

Post by Clarence »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:29 am
Bringing Clapper into this is just more whataboutism. Why did Trump and his cronies lie about the Russians Clarence?
I haven'r heard an answer to that one yet.
Clapper is one of the people who wrote the "17 agencies" (more like 3)report you silly thing.
Comey & Clapper with ODNI and NSA signing off on it, and NSA doing so reservedly.
The Steele memo's "Russian" stuff was ENTIRELY the responsibility of the Hillary Clinton for President campaign. And still you swallow it like a 2 dollor hooker guzzling down sperm.

You've based your entire Russia bullshit on a report written by two individuals who are not known for a close relationship with the truth.
As for the rest? Do you have any idea just how many people in Washington (esp business people but also including politicians) have contacts in Russia? That's what makes this new McCarthyism so maddening. Did someone who was on Trump's campaign for a month or two lie about some connection he had with Russians 2 or 3 years before the campaign? Fail to report income from a foreign source (something I've heard is a pretty common occurance in Washington DC in part due to the vagueness of the relevant law, and party due to corruption ) Clearly, this is the BEGINNING OF THE END for The Drumpf, that Russian mole.

Keep telling yourself that (and probably stroking yourself while doing so).
I'm thinking how many people were out to get Trump even before the primaries were over. He upset alot of very comfy applecarts. You'd think , given the legal and illegal spying (yes ILLEGAL spying is what I am convinced the Republicans have proof of) on his campaign including months before the election either this motherfucker is much smarter than you and the other kids here given him credit for and has been able to cover his tracks admireably such that even the NSA (which has bugs on the goddamn internet trunk lines) hasn't been able to provide any intelligence to allow Comey to charge Trump with so much as a golfcourse (let alone Russian spying), or he's much 'cleaner' of a business man than you and the tabloids that call themselves newsorgans want to give him credit for. So far the results of over half a year of spying and nearly a year of investigating have turned up nothing big and juicy. I bet it stays that way.

Clarence
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#506

Post by Clarence »

I mean think of it this way:
Trump has to be super extra retarded if he's guilty. He has to know every single legal and semilegal and (possibly) illegal thing that ERpublicans, the Clintonistas and the Obama Administration (which was in power at the time) can do, they will do to embarrass him, humiliate him, or put him in chains for breaking even the smallest of laws. Despite some of this Russian bullshit being pushed "pre-election" , despite his protests to the contrary, despite him saying the Deep State was out to get him, he pressed on.
Why? To enrich himself or get favorable deals couldn't he have made a deal with the Rubio Republicans? Or even the Cruz Republicans (much more beloved of the actual party base)? Bush was the 'establishment' Republican candidate and he stayed in the race long after Trump started messing his "divide and conqueor and get the right endorsements" strategy up. Why not make a deal with Bush and get out for some 'considerations' which Bush could do even if he didn't win the Presidency but even more so if he did? Then when he was the Candidate and the entire Washington political apparatus and 90 percent of the press was turned against him, once again, if guilty of something why not try to strike the best deal? Oh, wait, I forgot that despite spying on him and his campaign and accusing him of all sorts of shit, the vast majority of evidence seems to indicate that most of the important people didn't really think he could win. Oh well,their loss.

Anyway, I bet your answer to all of this is Trumps Ego over rides common sense and self-protection. Am I right?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#507

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Keep telling yourself that (and probably stroking yourself while doing so)
You want to get rude about this Clarence?
I can see you are getting angry, no doubt it is frustrating to have people point out how you have been suckered in to defending what is disgraceful behavior. You don't have an answer to Trumps people lying about their contacts with Russians, 2 of them have already plead guilty to it, Sessions admitted it but played the senile grandpa that forgot a lot of stuff. There is talk that Manafort's co-accused is starting to cooperate with Mueller.
It's clear that Trump Jr. and Kushner lied too.
Why did they lie Clarence? Can you answer that instead of trying to change the subject or throw a tantrum?
I want to hear your explanation.

Clarence
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#508

Post by Clarence »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:49 pm
Keep telling yourself that (and probably stroking yourself while doing so)
You want to get rude about this Clarence?
I can see you are getting angry, no doubt it is frustrating to have people point out how you have been suckered in to defending what is disgraceful behavior. You don't have an answer to Trumps people lying about their contacts with Russians, 2 of them have already plead guilty to it, Sessions admitted it but played the senile grandpa that forgot a lot of stuff. There is talk that Manafort's co-accused is starting to cooperate with Mueller.
It's clear that Trump Jr. and Kushner lied too.
Why did they lie Clarence? Can you answer that instead of trying to change the subject or throw a tantrum?
I want to hear your explanation.
what they lied about seems to involve shit thats on them personally, and has nothing to do with Trump because it seems the vast majority of it happened YEARS before Trumps campaign and no one has established any direct ties to him yet.
Now you can answer my question:
Why the fuck do you trust two reports (The Steele Dossier) and the (17, no 3) Intelligence Report whose combined Russian connection stuff ( Yes, I'm saying the Clinton campaign is responsible for all the Russian accusations in the Steele Dossier) was written by the Clinton Campaign, Clapper, and James Comey?

It seems your alleged skepticism goes away when it comes to accepting information by known liars and self-interested entities. I'd like to know why. I also note your moral double standards.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#509

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Anyway, I bet your answer to all of this is Trumps Ego over rides common sense and self-protection. Am I right?
I think that it likely that Trump has made a lot of sales over the years to various gangsters that were using real estate purchases to launder money.
He has always had lawyers as fixers to deal with any shady crap he pulled (see Roy Cohn). He had his way city/county/state officials more often than he lost. He thought he could run for president and continue to get his way. Also he thought he could bully the press and FBI/CIA etc. if they started to look in to it. He already started that early in his campaign.
Does he have huge ego? :lol: :lol:

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#510

Post by free thoughtpolice »

what they lied about seems to involve shit thats on them personally, and has nothing to do with Trump because it seems the vast majority of it happened YEARS before Trumps campaign and no one has established any direct ties to him yet.
Flynn, Manafort, and Gates had other charges as well as lying about the Russian thing. That isn't a good explanation of why they lied about Russian contacts during the campaign and since though.
It also doesn't explain why Sessions, Kushner, Trump jr., Papadopoulos... lied about it.
You don't have a better answer than that?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#511

Post by Clarence »

We have people in our government ..in our own intelligence agencies...lying to the members of congress who are supposed to be overseeing them?
Nothing to see here. No prosecutions necessary, no sign of the need for governmental reform...
But you sure want to get Assange who has been cooped up in an Embassy since 2012 and whose two 'victims' weren't fans of the prosecution.
We have Comey who has suspicious ties to the Clintons leading two 'investigations' against them. Both of which (coincidentally I'm sure) cleared the relevent Clinton in question.
The Fox guarding the henhouse? No need to investigate it, nothing to see here!
Obama admistration WEAPONIZES THE IRS (and recently admitted so in a court of law and also reached a settlement) to use against its political enemies?
The former IRS chief is immunized and gets not the slightest bit of punishment?
Nothing to see her! Business as usual!
The Obama administration weaponizes Title IX. It doesn't just reform "standard of proof" in college sexual assault cases (which is what many people mistakenly believe). No, it downright FORCES colleges (which tended to NOT mess with criminal sexual complaints but instead had college policies for seperating the students, etc when a criminal complaint was lodged) under the Aegis that Title IX also applies to sexual assault to set up these tribunals. What does the 'mainstream' press do? It pretends 30 plus years of campus activism (anonymous tiplines, victims advocates on campus, the ability of many, probably most college healt centers to take SA evidence kits etc) never happened, accepts activist stats as gospel and Praises The One for Protecting Our KickAss Daughters Who Can't Deal With The Trauma Of Saying No and Need Downright Double Standards on Alcohol.
That's just an example of the "Trustworthy" mainstream press you worship so much.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#512

Post by Clarence »

Answer my question.
I've done enough to answer yours, which consists of basically throwing any shit at people who had any ties to Trump (even though the guy went through for instance 3 or 4 campaign managers) and then saying it sticks to him.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#513

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Answering your question, or trying to.
Why the fuck do you trust two reports (The Steele Dossier) and the (17, no 3) Intelligence Report whose combined Russian connection stuff ( Yes, I'm saying the Clinton campaign is responsible for all the Russian accusations in the Steele Dossier) was written by the Clinton Campaign, Clapper, and James Comey?
I don't believe everything in the Steele dossier. The pee pee thing was juicy but smelled a bit funny, so I doubt that bit. As I recall, much of the report was verified.
The rest sounds a little weird. You think the whole Russia thing is a Clinton plot?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#514

Post by Clarence »

I think the Russian thing is a Clinton/Obama Administration plot to cover up the following crimes:
A) Misusing the FISA process to spy on political opponents not just Trump
B) Any real investigation (by someone they have no control over or dirt on, man I bet they wished they could get real Trump dirt!) of things such as the Clinton email server
C) Taking bribes from both foreign powers (Clinton Server and Quatar and 1 million bucks) and domestic black money groups such as the US Chamber of Commerce and big business in exchange for favors.
D) The amount of spying and misuse of that information to possibly include things such as compromising the independence of Congress. Yes, I'm saying its almost certain that certain members of congress are owned via impeachable information the US's basically unregulated intelligence agencies have on them.
And lastly E)
I think its partly ideological warfare too. Both parties have their globalists/progressive wings and then there is the warmongering Neocons who've basically owned US foreign policy for 40 years. Trump and his nationalistic border, VISA, and economic policies threaten that and he's not as amenable to control in foreign policy either.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#515

Post by Clarence »

And before you try ignoring what I've said and call me a horrible conspiracy theorist (and totally ignore the stuff I pointed out about Clapper lying to congress, Obama weaponizing the IRS and etc) please remember it's you who are asserting that somehow our intelligence agencies are above reproach or suspicion and we are supposed to believe that Trump- a man who has been dealing with Papparazi since at least the late 70's- is some sort of Manchurian Candidate who can't wait to begin sucking Vladamir's penis and that shouting "Russia! Russia! Russia! " all the time is some sort of argument.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#516

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:26 am
Trump ... jumped on it like a Hollywood producer on a hot young starlet
He jumped on it like a 13-year-old in a gold lamé bikini on Jeffrey Epstein's island.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#517

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

free thoughtpolice wrote: I don't believe everything in the Steele dossier. The pee pee thing was juicy but smelled a bit funny, so I doubt that bit.
NB: trump didn't deny he was caught on film in a Russian hotel room with two whores. He just denied they wet the bed.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#518

Post by Clarence »

Couldn't have put it better myself: ". Nothing to fear. Once again, a “resistance” mouthpiece, in this case the New York Times editors (for the second time), stooped to using the Orwellian ‘If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear’ poison to attack the President of the United States. This is signature significance for a totalitarian mindset, and shows vividly the alienation of the Times from its own alleged values. The editorial is stunned that the President would distrust the fairness and motives of the Justice Department and the FBI as it pursues an investigation concocted by Democrats to undo the 2016 election. Why would he distrust DOJ, where an acting Attorney General, Sally Yates, left over from the Obama administration breached ethics rules to defy her client, the President, and publicly grandstanded her “resistance” to an Executive Order? Or the Justice lawyers who have been unethically and illegally leaking to the press at a record pace? Why would he distrust a Special Counsel who appointed FBI agents to his team revealed later to have pronounced a Trump presidency to be a disaster to be avoided at all costs? Why would Trump be wary of an FBI team assembled by James Comey, who leaked classified materials to undermine him, or the same agency that now appears to have rigged the Clinton investigation to ensure his defeat in 2016? It’s a mystery!

But never mind: the Times editorials jumped the rationality shark on all things Trump more than a year ago. That still doesn’t excuse ending a screed called “Why Does the President Fear The Truth?” with this Orwellian line:

This leads to the third and most pressing question of all: If Mr. Trump and his associates are truly innocent of any wrongdoing, what are they so afraid of?

Oh, gee, I don’t know—because they have every reason to believe the objective of the investigation isn’t the truth, but political warfare, electoral gains, propaganda, interference with governance and a achieving a soft coup? Because every American would have reason to fear if a prosecutor determined to find a reason to prosecute was digging into his or her affairs? Be Mueller’s investigation is at least as much about partisan politics as it is about “justice”? Because a prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich, as the saying goes?

There are many sources explaining what is so sinister about the Times’ question–I’ve written about it here too, but let’s consider some of the myriad others: here, here, here, here, here, and here.

The Times itself would have once loudly condemned the premise of their editorial as a deadly slippery slope–before Donald Trump.

Silver Lining: The sooner the mainstream news media’s abandonment of objectivity, ethics, fairness and principle becomes so obvious that even its current enablers shout “Enough!”, the sooner reform and healing can begin. This outrageous embrace of a “1984” mentality by the New York Times has to represent progress toward the moment when journalists, like Michael Douglas in “Falling Down,” realize, “Wait…I’m the bad guy?” "

https://ethicsalarms.com/2018/01/28/mor ... more-42796

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#519

Post by free thoughtpolice »

There is no truth to the rumor that the First Lady flew to Florida to fuck the pool boy. She wasn't pissed, get over it li9btards

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#520

Post by free thoughtpolice »

OK Clarence. I just alerted the Deep State and they know that you know. If I were you I'd haul ass to the airport and get a one way ticket to Moscow and beg Tsar Vlad for asylum. It may be too late already though. If you see anyone following you maybe it's better to head for the Ecuadorian embassy.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#521

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »


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Re: The Trump Dump!

#522

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

This Deep State stuff, sounds pretty impressive. A vast, invisible force that controls the evil status quo. Much like the Patriarchy and God.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#523

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: This Deep State stuff, sounds pretty impressive. A vast, invisible force that controls the evil status quo. Much like the Patriarchy and God.
Except The Patriarchy doesn't have silent black helicopters.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#524

Post by KiwiInOz »


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Re: The Trump Dump!

#525

Post by Clarence »

The Deep State, unlike the Patriarchy, has been defined, and has a defined membership. I can even tell you some who are members of the Deep State. It also has liimits to its powers unlike God, so your stupid equaivalences end there.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#526

Post by Clarence »

I have never seen such a lazy arrogant bunch of assholes who claim to be skeptics. Very disappointing. But like I said, I expect you lot have a ton of surprises coming your way (and no, I'm not one who believes in the pedophile 4 chan stuff, I like to think I can parse things that have evidence for them verus things that do not as well as anyone here) and why should I spoil them? I'm just going to say the Nunes Memo is just the opening shot, and when I'm proven correct in the next 2 months, leave you wondering where my sources are.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#527

Post by Kirbmarc »

Fact checking on Trump and jobs: What was promised and what has actually been delivered.

Apparently the promises and estimates of job growth have been inflated, and actual job growth for American citizens is much smaller than what is advertised. Needless to say this should be more than a little disappointing for Trump supporters.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#528

Post by John D »

Not quite finished watching the State of the Union address. Some thoughts so far.

Trump is very solid. He is sensible and presidential. He also sounds pretty sincere and convincing. The left is trying to prove that Trump's "new normal" is unacceptable, but they are going to lose this fight. He is proving how presidential he can act if he chooses to.

"Americans are dreamers too." Haha. wow. Nationalism for the win!

He talks about illegals who kill people so the Dems actually boo.... and then he has two families stand up who have lost a child to illegal gang members. Wow. fuck. The Dems look like ass holes now. It's like he set up the play. Maybe he was just lucky, but part of me wonders if he set this up hoping the Dems would take the bait. Trump hit a home run on this.

Predictions... soon the VISA lottery will be dead. Soon we will have more skills based immigration. Soon we will have significantly increased funding for "the wall". Trump will soon reduce the speed and size of "chain" immigration. There will be a path to citizenship for "the dreamers". He will win most of what he wants on the immigration topic.

So.... going into the midterms, Trump will have reduced taxes, destroyed Obamacare, defeated ISIS, and improved our immigration system. This is a pretty good record for the Republicans to run on.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#529

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

John D wrote: Not quite finished watching the State of the Union address. Some thoughts so far.

Trump is very solid. He is sensible and presidential. He also sounds pretty sincere and convincing. The left is trying to prove that Trump's "new normal" is unacceptable, but they are going to lose this fight. He is proving how presidential he can act if he chooses to.

"Americans are dreamers too." Haha. wow. Nationalism for the win!

He talks about illegals who kill people so the Dems actually boo.... and then he has two families stand up who have lost a child to illegal gang members. Wow. fuck. The Dems look like ass holes now. It's like he set up the play. Maybe he was just lucky, but part of me wonders if he set this up hoping the Dems would take the bait. Trump hit a home run on this.

Predictions... soon the VISA lottery will be dead. Soon we will have more skills based immigration. Soon we will have significantly increased funding for "the wall". Trump will soon reduce the speed and size of "chain" immigration. There will be a path to citizenship for "the dreamers". He will win most of what he wants on the immigration topic.

So.... going into the midterms, Trump will have reduced taxes, destroyed Obamacare, defeated ISIS, and improved our immigration system. This is a pretty good record for the Republicans to run on.
I love you, man, but you're delusional.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#530

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

John D wrote: Not quite finished watching the State of the Union address. Some thoughts so far.

Trump is very solid. He is sensible and presidential. He also sounds pretty sincere and convincing. The left is trying to prove that Trump's "new normal" is unacceptable, but they are going to lose this fight. He is proving how presidential he can act if he chooses to.

"Americans are dreamers too." Haha. wow. Nationalism for the win!

He talks about illegals who kill people so the Dems actually boo.... and then he has two families stand up who have lost a child to illegal gang members. Wow. fuck. The Dems look like ass holes now. It's like he set up the play. Maybe he was just lucky, but part of me wonders if he set this up hoping the Dems would take the bait. Trump hit a home run on this.

Predictions... soon the VISA lottery will be dead. Soon we will have more skills based immigration. Soon we will have significantly increased funding for "the wall". Trump will soon reduce the speed and size of "chain" immigration. There will be a path to citizenship for "the dreamers". He will win most of what he wants on the immigration topic.

So.... going into the midterms, Trump will have reduced taxes, destroyed Obamacare, defeated ISIS, and improved our immigration system. This is a pretty good record for the Republicans to run on.
I love you, man, but you're delusional.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#531

Post by Kirbmarc »

Trump didn't defeat ISIS. He just happened to be president while other forces (SDF/YPG, Iraqi government, Russia, Assad) defeated ISIS. The SDF/YPG forces have been supported by the US before the Trump presidency, all the other groups didn't get any US support.

The contribution of Donald Trump to the defeat of ISIS was minimal, it's probably more due to the fact that he stopped (indirectly) financing the groups which were fighting against Assad, so the Assad regime had more resources to throw at ISIS, and the same thing is true for the SDF/YPG (who were threatened by US-financed anti-Assad Sunni groups as well).

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#532

Post by free thoughtpolice »

John D: Are you sure you are impervious to hypnosis? What you write makes it sound like you have been entranced by Steve Doocy and the Donald. :shock:

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#533

Post by John D »

Haha. I have lots of friends who are Trump supporters. I think you guys just don't get it. Trump is right on track. He will make the Dems work pretty hard to take extra seats this November. Mark my words.... he is giving Reps a lot of help right now.

and even if he doesn't technically defeat ISIS.... it is still a story he can sell to voters.

In his special Trumpy way... he hit at least a triple last night. (that's an American baseball reference in case you have never heard this before)

I haven't seen the Dems rebuttal yet, but from the sound bites I heard, and the grumblings in my office, I think it is probably pretty weak sauce. I will post once I watch it and give you my super-special always-correct political analysis.... haha. As always.... I never claim that I am necessarily right, and yall are welcome to remind me of this comment if I prove to be incorrect.... then shame on me I guess.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#534

Post by John D »

and Matt... at least I don't double post half the time... haha.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#535

Post by John D »

Well.... the polling of American's reaction to the Trump speech is as I said. Most people liked the speech.... though many still doubt Trump can pull off the things he is promising.

The Dem response is indeed weak sauce. Same old story. Kennedy says "Why can't we all get along, and give more stuff for free, and have open boarders.... and the rich are evil."

http://www.businessinsider.com/polls-tr ... ved-2018-1

and this opinion in The Guardian (of all places) has much of the story correct. Wolffe obviously hates Trump.... but even so he sums the speech up as a victory of sorts stating that the Dems have learned nothing. He is pretty much correct. Even if you hate Trump and his policies, Trump clearly had a very good night.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... onse-to-it

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#536

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Clarence wrote: I have never seen such a lazy arrogant bunch of assholes who claim to be skeptics. Very disappointing. But like I said, I expect you lot have a ton of surprises coming your way (and no, I'm not one who believes in the pedophile 4 chan stuff, I like to think I can parse things that have evidence for them verus things that do not as well as anyone here) and why should I spoil them? I'm just going to say the Nunes Memo is just the opening shot, and when I'm proven correct in the next 2 months, leave you wondering where my sources are.
Do you really want to just resort to insults, you pervy perma-virgin?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#537

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

John D wrote: Well.... the polling of American's reaction to the Trump speech is as I said. Most people liked the speech.... though many still doubt Trump can pull off the things he is promising.

The Dem response is indeed weak sauce. Same old story. Kennedy says "Why can't we all get along, and give more stuff for free, and have open boarders.... and the rich are evil."

http://www.businessinsider.com/polls-tr ... ved-2018-1

and this opinion in The Guardian (of all places) has much of the story correct. Wolffe obviously hates Trump.... but even so he sums the speech up as a victory of sorts stating that the Dems have learned nothing. He is pretty much correct. Even if you hate Trump and his policies, Trump clearly had a very good night.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... onse-to-it
The Dem's response was horrorific, no doubt. But as to the approval of Trump's speech, consider how low the bar was. He simply needed to stick to the teleprompter and not say anything too very narcissistic. He will squander his goodwill in Twitter over the next few days.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#538

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

And anybody that thinks the Nunes memo is anything other than a calculated (and shortsighted) distraction from the Mueller investigation has some skeptical problems of their own. As the Mueller investigation gets increasingly close to the top, a panic has set in among the Republican leadership. The attempt to undermine the credibility of the FBI and Mueller is both palpable and sickening.

Nunes has had his tongue in Trump's ass from day one, obstructing the investigation and now has a biased, out-of-context series of distractions to fool the gullible. They are going after Rod Rosenstein as well, which is sorta funny.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#539

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Is there any doubt that the Nunes memo was cooked up with the help of the White House?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics ... index.html

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#540

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Clarence wrote: The Deep State, unlike the Patriarchy, has been defined, and has a defined membership. I can even tell you some who are members of the Deep State. It also has liimits to its powers unlike God, so your stupid equaivalences end there.
You must be part of the Deep State to know so much about them, even their membership. Have you been hanging around Jeff Epsteins island with the rest of the Deep Staters? Now you say you don't believe in the pedo conspiracy stuff. What are you trying to cover up?
Is Hillary part of the deep state? How about Mueller? Rod Rosenstein?
Are you going to tell us Clarence? If that is your name.

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