The Trump Dump!

Double wank and shit chips
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#541

Post by free thoughtpolice » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:46 pm

It turns out FBI agent Peter Strzok wasn't nearly acting as favorable toward Hillary Clinton as the pro Trumpers make out:
http://www.weny.com/story/37397412/excl ... mail-probe

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#542

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:24 pm

Kinda Stormy for Trump right now. That man needs a stiff shot of Daniels.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#543

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:43 pm

https://www.apnews.com/cbf09fb819724aee ... P_Politics

Goodness, either AP is fake news or Trump may not be entirely truthful. Tough choice.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#544

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:32 pm

http://amp.nationalreview.com/morning-j ... ssion=true
Sure, ignore the National Review, a notorious liberal publication. Fake news. Anything against Trump is fake news, amirite?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#545

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:59 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true
Better than Lincoln! Hatch's office disagrees, but we know Trump never exaggerated or lied 'bout nothin'.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#546

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:01 pm

Another coffee boy bites the dust.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... s-quit?amp
Probably nothing to see here. Move along.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#547

Post by free thoughtpolice » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:37 am

People that have an unfavorable view of Donald Trump should not be investigating him. Only team players that have pledged loyalty to the Donald should be allowed to decide whether he should be investigated ( he shouldn't).
After the Steele dossier was leaked, Steele talked to the press. That's bad (not sure why). Leaks are bad unless they target Crooked Hillary. Because Steele is a bad guy his info shouldn't have been used to get a warrant even if it was only used to corroborate other independently gathered knowledge.
Mind you, this other stuff needs to be ignored because it doesn't fit in with the repub's attack on the FBI and the FISA court.
Did I mention that Peter Strzok isn't a team player and who would trust an adulterer that doesn't have DJT for his initials?
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/ ... 7?lo=ap_a1

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#548

Post by John D » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:42 am

I've got my copy of "The Memo"(tm) and I will enjoy this. Lots of martinis and popcorn watching the news this weekend.

Big question - Was the Steele document used as the primary evidence for approval of a FISA warranty approving the FBI to spy on Carter Page? Could be.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#549

Post by free thoughtpolice » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:47 pm

John D wrote: I've got my copy of "The Memo"(tm) and I will enjoy this. Lots of martinis and popcorn watching the news this weekend.

Big question - Was the Steele document used as the primary evidence for approval of a FISA warranty approving the FBI to spy on Carter Page? Could be.
The memo, and the pro Trump camp would like you to believe that, but they are silent on what ever else was submitted to the court. According to most accounts, in order to get a FISA warrant there has to be a detailed request and the rather minor mention that Page got in the Steele dossier would most likely be only a part of.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ws/552227/
There are many questions that remain about the memo, though whether and when the public might get answers is unclear, because much of the information involved remains classified. In addition to the vague point about the dossier’s “essential” role in the warrant application, it’s unclear what other information was in the application, beyond what the memo has specified. There’s also no legal prohibition on using partisan information in such an application, as Orin Kerr explains. And as Jim Sciutto notes, FISA warrants have to be renewed every 90 days, and the FBI couldn’t have simply relied on the dossier for those. It would have to prove it was obtaining valuable intelligence from the wiretap.

One passage in the Nunes memo seems to explain a mysterious incident in which Senate Judiciary Committee Chair Chuck Grassley and Senator Lindsey Graham referred Steele to the Department of Justice for prosecution, saying he’d lied to federal officials but not explaining when or to whom. But the memo says that Steele was suspended as an FBI source after speaking to the media about his contacts with the FBI in a late-October Mother Jones story. The memo adds, “Steele should have been terminated for his previous undisclosed contacts with Yahoo and other outlets in September-before the Page application was submitted to the FISC in October—but Steele improperly concealed from and lied to the FBI about those contacts.” (It’s not clear whether this is true; two sources familiar with Steele’s actions disputed the account, my colleague Natasha Bertrand reported.)

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#550

Post by John D » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:11 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:
John D wrote: I've got my copy of "The Memo"(tm) and I will enjoy this. Lots of martinis and popcorn watching the news this weekend.

Big question - Was the Steele document used as the primary evidence for approval of a FISA warranty approving the FBI to spy on Carter Page? Could be.
The memo, and the pro Trump camp would like you to believe that, but they are silent on what ever else was submitted to the court. According to most accounts, in order to get a FISA warrant there has to be a detailed request and the rather minor mention that Page got in the Steele dossier would most likely be only a part of.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ws/552227/
There are many questions that remain about the memo, though whether and when the public might get answers is unclear, because much of the information involved remains classified. In addition to the vague point about the dossier’s “essential” role in the warrant application, it’s unclear what other information was in the application, beyond what the memo has specified. There’s also no legal prohibition on using partisan information in such an application, as Orin Kerr explains. And as Jim Sciutto notes, FISA warrants have to be renewed every 90 days, and the FBI couldn’t have simply relied on the dossier for those. It would have to prove it was obtaining valuable intelligence from the wiretap.

One passage in the Nunes memo seems to explain a mysterious incident in which Senate Judiciary Committee Chair Chuck Grassley and Senator Lindsey Graham referred Steele to the Department of Justice for prosecution, saying he’d lied to federal officials but not explaining when or to whom. But the memo says that Steele was suspended as an FBI source after speaking to the media about his contacts with the FBI in a late-October Mother Jones story. The memo adds, “Steele should have been terminated for his previous undisclosed contacts with Yahoo and other outlets in September-before the Page application was submitted to the FISC in October—but Steele improperly concealed from and lied to the FBI about those contacts.” (It’s not clear whether this is true; two sources familiar with Steele’s actions disputed the account, my colleague Natasha Bertrand reported.)
Oh, I agree. The memo could be super biased and Nunes could end up looking very bad. I am open minded about this. If the FBI can defend their process here then they will have the proof. The can easily show if the memo is mostly false. If the FBI and Dems do not release any defense in the next few weeks then I suspect they have no defense. We will see.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#551

Post by free thoughtpolice » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:33 pm

The can easily show if the memo is mostly false. If the FBI and Dems do not release any defense in the next few weeks then I suspect they have no defense. We will see.
I'm not sure how easily the memo can be proven false without releasing the full information given to the FISC because that would presumably include information about what exactly they were investigating about Page and others and make it more difficult to continue the investigation. Also it could endanger sources and methods of investigation.
Odd that the repubs are blocking the dem response.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#552

Post by John D » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:15 pm

This.....


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Re: The Trump Dump!

#553

Post by free thoughtpolice » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:23 pm

This..... is full of shit.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#554

Post by free thoughtpolice » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:44 pm

Here you go John. This.....

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#555

Post by John D » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:49 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: Here you go John. This.....
Haha. that was fantastic... I love the picture of Schiff.

Good stuff on all sides. :popcorn:

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#556

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:07 pm

Ha, the timeline on the memo actually works against Trump. They renewed the FISA warrant three times, even after the Trump administration was in power. Poor Rod Rosenstein, gonna be ground up to cushion the fall for Trump, probably all for nothing. The only dupes falling for the memo would have not cared if Trump just fired Rosenstein and Mueller outright. It was an attempt to improve the optics, and probably won't succeed.

I will admit it's amusing.
DVD7mhBXkAM_Y6a.jpeg
(33.3 KiB) Downloaded 99 times

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#557

Post by John D » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:12 pm

Just cause Trump was president doesn't mean he had control of the FBI. They kept getting FISA approval based on the Steele BS even after Trump was pres. Very possible. Also, this could be partly why Trump fired that worm Comey. Time will tell. :popcorn:

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#558

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:12 pm

John D wrote: Just cause Trump was president doesn't mean he had control of the FBI. They kept getting FISA approval based on the Steele BS even after Trump was pres. Very possible. Also, this could be partly why Trump fired that worm Comey. Time will tell. :popcorn:
Rod Rosenstein signed off on those warrants! Yeppers, Trump appointed, Jeff Sessions approved.

By the way, how 'bout that Sessions threatening legal marijuana? Approve or disapprove?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#559

Post by John D » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:52 am

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
John D wrote: Just cause Trump was president doesn't mean he had control of the FBI. They kept getting FISA approval based on the Steele BS even after Trump was pres. Very possible. Also, this could be partly why Trump fired that worm Comey. Time will tell. :popcorn:
Rod Rosenstein signed off on those warrants! Yeppers, Trump appointed, Jeff Sessions approved.

By the way, how 'bout that Sessions threatening legal marijuana? Approve or disapprove?
To be honest, I have very mixed thoughts about Sessions. He will not move properly regarding pot. This is a problem. Ultimately, the states will control and push pot legalization. Sessions could do more to help with this transition, but he will not. So, I disagree with Sessions on the topic of pot.

I am pleased that he will stop targeting police departments for racism. The idea that the police should arrest the same proportion of blacks as is found in the population is a broken idea. I agree with him on this.

I disagree with Sessions on the cops taking property without a proper prosecution. This is just evil and I can't believe people aren't complaining about this more.

So.... I give Sessions about a C.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#560

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:20 am

Trump is making less of an ass of himself on twitter, he charmed the mainstream Republicans with some "USA!" choirs and his State of the Union speech, the Democrats are still tangling with identity politic shenanigans. The result: Trump and the GOP might bounce back.

Now it'd be the time for the Dems to take their heads out of their asses and start talking about concrete political points and issues instead of virtue-signalling waiting for Trump to say something moronic, or waiting for Muller to arrest Trump. But I suspect that this might not happen, since it looks like the KulturKampf is in full swing, and the main political talking point is still only "RussiaGate".

It's still rather likely that Trump will shoot himself in the foot once again, or that the Russian investigation will take him down, or that the GOP will offer a selection of shitty candidates. But it's not a sure thing that the GOP will lose control of the House of Representatives, and if they do, it might not be because of a strong and meaningful Democratic platform, but because they're seen as the worst of two evils.

Again, these numbers don't look incredibly good for the Democrats, and they shouldn't think that Trump is already beaten.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#561

Post by John D » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:06 am

Kirbmarc wrote: Trump is making less of an ass of himself on twitter, he charmed the mainstream Republicans with some "USA!" choirs and his State of the Union speech, the Democrats are still tangling with identity politic shenanigans. The result: Trump and the GOP might bounce back.

Now it'd be the time for the Dems to take their heads out of their asses and start talking about concrete political points and issues instead of virtue-signalling waiting for Trump to say something moronic, or waiting for Muller to arrest Trump. But I suspect that this might not happen, since it looks like the KulturKampf is in full swing, and the main political talking point is still only "RussiaGate".

It's still rather likely that Trump will shoot himself in the foot once again, or that the Russian investigation will take him down, or that the GOP will offer a selection of shitty candidates. But it's not a sure thing that the GOP will lose control of the House of Representatives, and if they do, it might not be because of a strong and meaningful Democratic platform, but because they're seen as the worst of two evils.

Again, these numbers don't look incredibly good for the Democrats, and they shouldn't think that Trump is already beaten.
This is what I have been saying. Matt and Bunny and Freethought might listen to you... haha. My only disagrement with you is that I think it is unlikely Trump will shoot himself in the foot. He is a bit impervious to attack in a traditional way. Remember... he talked about grabbing pussy and still got elected. I'm just making the observation that he is nontraditional which makes him less sensitive to scandal. No one really cares if he paid off a porn star to shut up. It was a complete non-story. Imagine if this had happened to ANY other politician.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#562

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:13 am

If you want to know why the FBI was bugging Carter Page and 4 different, republican nominated judges authorized the warrants read this:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... emo-216934



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Re: The Trump Dump!

#565

Post by John D » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:49 am

As always.... Maher is unfunny. Did this make you laugh? Really? or did it just make you say... "yeah.... you go girl!"

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#566

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:13 pm

John D wrote: As always.... Maher is unfunny. Did this make you laugh? Really? or did it just make you say... "yeah.... you go girl!"
Actually John, I think Maher is being ableist here by making sarcastic remarks ridiculing the terminally naive.
I just forgot to mention how much I disapprove of his remarks.
btw, did you read the blurb on Carter Page I posted? If so, do you still think the feds didn't have a good reason to watch him? Of course, some people (not saying you) think that the Russian FSB are the good guys and when they spy on the west it is a good thing but the FBI aren't supposed to do countersurveillance.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#567

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:50 pm

[quote]If you want to know why the FBI was bugging Carter Page and 4 different, republican nominated judges authorized the warrants read this:[/quote]

The Roseneft sale looks like the most interesting part of the whole story. Follow the money. If I were Mulller I'd prioritize that.

Anyway yes, if you hang out with people associated to the diplomatic staff of a foreign power without checking their stories and claims you're likely to get yourself in trouble, since most members of the diplomatic staff of most countries (the US included) are spies (diplomatic immunity is good for something after all).

It's not entirely clear whether Cater Page had been compromised or is just too naive and trusting (or both) but once your name is mentioned by foreign agents as a possible target of their efforts, and you spend a lot of time hanging around with them and defending them, getting bugged by your secret services is only a matter of time.

The Nunes Memo is a nothingburger.

However I think that unless there's some dramatic indictment in the near future most of the American public will get tired of the Russian shenanigans. The trickle down of leaks and counter-leaks makes for a good scandal, but there hasn't been a "smoking gun" in the investigation yet.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#568

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:06 pm

John D wrote: As always.... Maher is unfunny. Did this make you laugh? Really? or did it just make you say... "yeah.... you go girl!"
The Melania jokes were a bit cheap and obvious but quite funny.


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Re: The Trump Dump!

#570

Post by deLurch » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:06 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:50 pm
The Nunes Memo is a nothingburger.
I have been informed on good authority that anyone who says "nothingburger" in reguards to the memo is a shareblue shill. It must be true. I read it on the internet.

That said, the political football being performed over the memo is pure drudgery. It isn't the damming piece of evidence that Trump/Republican supporters think it is. It isn't the complete nothing that Democrats think it is.

I think at best it will bury the Russia thing from a pure quagmire stand point. There was nothing there to begin with. And nothing has been found to date of real value.

It MAY be helpful to the Republicans in order to sow a bit more feeling of distrust of the democrats. But it will be a long hard road for either side to make any kind of conclusive case that matters out of this.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#571

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:30 pm

Odd that Republicans are countering the release of the Democratic memo. Of course, one might ask why the Nunes Memo was created and what it hoped to accomplish. Republicans had previously (including Nunes) renewed the FISA law with nary a whimper.

It is pretext for Trump to either fire Eisenstein or worse, or at least to provide a pretext to ignore what Mueller has to say.

John, as to Sessions, I bring that up because I have a friend/neighbor that is a fervent Trump supporter. He was hurt when Trump gutted the ACA because he firmly believed Trump's pledge that everybody would be covered for less. But he eventually rationalized what will undoubtedly be a greater health insurance expense. But when Sessions undid the Obama era protection for states with legalized pot, I thought he might actually lose it. He is beginning to become disillusioned.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#572

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:36 pm

I'm not sure we should say there's nothing to Russian collusion until we read Mueller's report. And to be honest, I'm not sure why anybody WOULD say that currently. Is it because they're unaware of how long white-collar prosecution takes or simple wishfull thinking?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#573

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:46 pm

And that fucking tax bill...great for multi-millionaires. But the deficit...When did we stop caring about that again? Nobody actually believes growth is gonna cover the cost, they will have to gut the budget.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#574

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:09 pm

*Snicker*

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018/02 ... y-slanted/

" In a story Feb. 2 about a Republican memo on the Russia investigation, The Associated Press erroneously reported that a former British spy’s work on an opposition research project was initially funded by the conservative Washington Free Beacon. Though the former spy, Christopher Steele, was hired by a firm that was initially funded by the Washington Free Beacon, he did not begin work on the project until after Democratic groups had begun funding it.

Let’s get it right: The DNC and the Clinton campaign hired Steele to compile the dossier. This was reported last October by The Washington Post. Why can’t the mainstream media seem to grasp this? "

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#575

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:16 pm

Lest we need reminded:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/26/us/p ... ement.html

This of course (by affecting tax status and hence fund raising) possibly constituted POLITICAL INTERFERENCE BY AN AGENCY OF THE GOVERNMENT into elections but no one was prosecuted and of course Obama's hands (even though it was his appointees) were kept 'clean'.

THIS kind of agency unaccountability is even more pronounced when it comes to the Intelligence agencies. But we are supposed to believe they are magicaly free of political interference and corruption and trust them implicitly.

I've been calling for over a decade for major reforms in forums here and all over the internet. But I'm just poor Joe Schmoe and my voice means nothing. But until we get a strong internal whisteblower law along with a ROTATING and RANDOMLY PICKED (or better yet ban party members and politicians from this role) external auditor , I don't think anyone should blindly trust our intelligence agencies. Or shit, until we get more openess/accountability government in general.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#576

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:17 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: And that fucking tax bill...great for multi-millionaires. But the deficit...When did we stop caring about that again? Nobody actually believes growth is gonna cover the cost, they will have to gut the budget.
It looks like a tactic that Canadian governments of both stripes have used before. They borrow money and cut taxes to artificially inflate the economy and win the next election and hope the fallout doesn't happen until after the election. When the shit hits the fan and the other party takes over they blame them for the ballooning deficit and talk about how much they care about not saddling their grandchildren with all that debt.
It's a bit like throwing a 4 year party and leaving the next guy with the hangover and cleaning up the puke.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#577

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

I like how all the gimps here think Carter Page is some sort of Soviet Superspy.
The guy seems more like a better dressed Forrest Gump.
If he's guilty he's got to be retarded:
A. He testified under oath before Congress last year WITHOUT A LAWYER.
B. He's been on talk shows all over the place denying he did anything wrong.
He's acted the opposite of what a guilty person or heck a PRUDENT person would do when under FBI / Intelligence community investigation.

I believe he was a 'useful patsy' for the corrupt CIA bureacrats to get and abuse FISA. They know he's guilty of being greedy (he seemed to want to misrepresent himself to the Russians and possibly -later on- the Trump campaign as welll ) and opinionated but not guilty of passing secrets.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#578

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:28 pm

Clarence wrote:
Let’s get it right: The DNC and the Clinton campaign hired Steele to compile the dossier. This was reported last October by The Washington Post. Why can’t the mainstream media seem to grasp this? "
The research firm Fusion GPS hired Steele without direction from anyone in the DNC. In fact, Simpson testified under oath that he hired Steele and the DNC didn't know about it until well after the fact.
Yes, Steele was hired after the DNC picked up the research funding, that has been widely reported by the "mainstream media" since the report was released. If there were some reports to the contrary I've never seen them, not to say they didn't occur but they would be outliers to what everyone else reported and as far as I know it is not widely believed.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#579

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:33 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: Clarence wrote:
Let’s get it right: The DNC and the Clinton campaign hired Steele to compile the dossier. This was reported last October by The Washington Post. Why can’t the mainstream media seem to grasp this? "
The research firm Fusion GPS hired Steele without direction from anyone in the DNC. In fact, Simpson testified under oath that he hired Steele and the DNC didn't know about it until well after the fact.
Yes, Steele was hired after the DNC picked up the research funding, that has been widely reported by the "mainstream media" since the report was released. If there were some reports to the contrary I've never seen them, not to say they didn't occur but they would be outliers to what everyone else reported and as far as I know it is not widely believed.
- A law firm, Perkins Coie, hired Fusion to gather information about Mr. Trump on several fronts, including possible ties to Russia, on behalf of Mrs. Clinton's campaign and the Democratic National Committee
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/08/us/p ... mpson.html

Oh did you know that Glenn Simpson is a personal friend of Mr. Steele?

No, of course you didn't. :lol:


This was a Clinton/DNC operation from the getgo.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#580

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:43 pm

Clarence wrote: I like how all the gimps here think Carter Page is some sort of Soviet Superspy.
The guy seems more like a better dressed Forrest Gump.
If he's guilty he's got to be retarded:
A. He testified under oath before Congress last year WITHOUT A LAWYER.
B. He's been on talk shows all over the place denying he did anything wrong.
He's acted the opposite of what a guilty person or heck a PRUDENT person would do when under FBI / Intelligence community investigation.

I believe he was a 'useful patsy' for the corrupt CIA bureacrats to get and abuse FISA. They know he's guilty of being greedy (he seemed to want to misrepresent himself to the Russians and possibly -later on- the Trump campaign as welll ) and opinionated but not guilty of passing secrets.
I don't believe Page is a Soviet super-spy. As I wrote:
It's not entirely clear whether Carter Page had been compromised or is just too naive and trusting (or both) but once your name is mentioned by foreign agents as a possible target of their efforts, and you spend a lot of time hanging around with them and defending them, getting bugged by your secret services is only a matter of time.
Either he was too greedy and compromised himself with the Russians, or he wasn't too bright, or both. Anyway there was reason to investigate him. Once you get intel that some foreign secret service might have targeted someone who hangs out with their men and might have access to political or economic institutions in your country it's standard procedure to keep an eye on them. If anything the US have been too willing to close an eye when the foreign secret services were from "allied" country like Turkey or Saudi Arabia.

I'd be surprised if the US intelligence agencies aren't spying on pretty much anyone who lives in America and has appeared on Russia Today as an "expert". If anything it's people like Huma Abedin who managed to slip past the radar in the past, because they only had ties to "friendly" countries like the KSA.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#581

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:46 pm

Let's get this straight too:
This was picked up by the Clinton Campaign from a prior (and apparently unsuccessful) opposition research by a Republican group.
But it was ONLY when Steele and FUSION GPS were brought in that the whole MUH RUSSIA angle was started.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#582

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:51 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Clarence wrote: I like how all the gimps here think Carter Page is some sort of Soviet Superspy.
The guy seems more like a better dressed Forrest Gump.
If he's guilty he's got to be retarded:
A. He testified under oath before Congress last year WITHOUT A LAWYER.
B. He's been on talk shows all over the place denying he did anything wrong.
He's acted the opposite of what a guilty person or heck a PRUDENT person would do when under FBI / Intelligence community investigation.

I believe he was a 'useful patsy' for the corrupt CIA bureacrats to get and abuse FISA. They know he's guilty of being greedy (he seemed to want to misrepresent himself to the Russians and possibly -later on- the Trump campaign as welll ) and opinionated but not guilty of passing secrets.
I don't believe Page is a Soviet super-spy. As I wrote:
It's not entirely clear whether Carter Page had been compromised or is just too naive and trusting (or both) but once your name is mentioned by foreign agents as a possible target of their efforts, and you spend a lot of time hanging around with them and defending them, getting bugged by your secret services is only a matter of time.
Either he was too greedy and compromised himself with the Russians, or he wasn't too bright, or both. Anyway there was reason to investigate him. Once you get intel that some foreign secret service might have targeted someone who hangs out with their man and might have access to political or economic institutions in your country it's standard procedure to keep an eye on them. If anything the US have been too willing to close an eye when the foreign secret services were from "allied" country like Turkey or Saudi Arabia.
Well, ok, I admit your more nuanced take on things. And you might be right that it was 'simple proudence' that INITIALLY launched the investigation into this guy waaaaaay back in 2013 (it was initially dropped after the soviet spy showed what a useful idiot he was). But I think evidence will later show he was used to improperly spy on Trump.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#583

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:53 pm

Clarence wrote:
- A law firm, Perkins Coie, hired Fusion to gather information about Mr. Trump on several fronts, including possible ties to Russia, on behalf of Mrs. Clinton's campaign and the Democratic National Committee
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/08/us/p ... mpson.html

Oh did you know that Glenn Simpson is a personal friend of Mr. Steele?
Your quote of the NYT was exactly what I said. What you said earlier implied that Clinton had ordered Simpson to hire Steele which is totally false. She and top DNC officials other than the lawyers weren't even aware of the hiring of Steele until well after the fact. Even if Clinton had personally ordered Steele's hiring, so what?
Another giant so what is that Simpson and Steele knew each other, which in fact I had already read.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#584

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:57 pm

The problem is, until we see the relevant FISA memos (and we SHOULD considering how important they are to our purported Democratic Republic right now) there are some things we simply have to guess at and try to dig from relevent interviews/congressional testimony. :(

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#585

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:01 pm

Also Clarence, regarding Carter Page, innocent or guilty he is still a retard and there was plenty of reason for the feds to investigate him even without the Steele dossier. Apparently the request for the FISA warrant was 50 pages long, the brief mention of him in the Steele document would hardly constitute a half page.
Read the link on post 562 if you want factual info on Page and why the FBI was interested.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#586

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:03 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: Clarence wrote:
- A law firm, Perkins Coie, hired Fusion to gather information about Mr. Trump on several fronts, including possible ties to Russia, on behalf of Mrs. Clinton's campaign and the Democratic National Committee
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/08/us/p ... mpson.html

Oh did you know that Glenn Simpson is a personal friend of Mr. Steele?
Your quote of the NYT was exactly what I said. What you said earlier implied that Clinton had ordered Simpson to hire Steele which is totally false. She and top DNC officials other than the lawyers weren't even aware of the hiring of Steele until well after the fact. Even if Clinton had personally ordered Steele's hiring, so what?
Another giant so what is that Simpson and Steele knew each other, which in fact I had already read.
I thought you were denying that the DNC had no knowledge that Steele or Fusion GPS were hired by their law firm. It sure seems like it. And it doesn't matter. The fucking FBI shouldn't be using opposition research paid for by EITHER of the two main political parties, let alone the party currently in power against a rival political campaign and esp so during an election. And doubly triply esp so when the DNC has appointed the relevent intelligence community officials.

I don't see Russian interference in the election. I do see Democratic party interference in the election. THAT is the real scandal here. But don't worry: like I said , a hell of a lot more shoes have yet to drop and I'm not just talking about more Nunes memos.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#587

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:15 pm

Clarence wrote:
The fucking FBI shouldn't be using opposition research paid for by EITHER of the two main political parties, let alone the party currently in power against a rival political campaign and esp so during an election.
So if someone in the RNC became aware that Clinton or other dems may have broken the law and they tell the FBI they should just ignore it? You must be joking!
Also, it wasn't the Steele dossier that originally tipped off the FBI to investigate possible Russian interference. Papadopoulos got drunk and blabbed about the Trump Tower meeting to an Aussie diplomat and this was relayed to the FBI. All of this before the Steele thing.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#588

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:16 pm

Clarence wrote: But I think evidence will later show he was used to improperly spy on Trump.
There's no evidence of this right now, though. Hence why the Nunes Memo is basically a nothingburger. Basically it all hinges on the fact that a guy who had shady ties to the Russians was investigated by the FBI, and he had (loose) ties to the Trump campaign at one point. Big deal.

Mind you, I think that a lot of speculations on the Trump-Russia connection is made up by nothingburgers, too (the pee tape rumor, for example, is basically gossip, and Steele wasn't too bright to include it in his report).

What we have are several people who were at some point close (to different degrees) to the Trump campaign staff (Manafort, Papadopoulos, Page) who had shady ties to Russian intelligence entities. Also people like Trump Jr. meeting Russian lawyers with likely ties to the Russian government for oppo research. Also the whole brouhaha about the Clinton emails, with evidence of Russian involvement in the hacking and distribution to Wikileaks. Also the Rosneft sale, which went on as the Steele report predicted, and warrants investigation. Also reluctance to enact sanctions on Russia in the Trump administration.

There's no "smoking gun" in the "RussiaGate" controversy, but there's definitely a lot that needs to be clarified. It's possible that Trump might be just more Russia-friendly than previous US presidents, or at least willing to give Russia a pass to focus on other threats, and that the whole thing is more about oppo research, imprudence, exaggerations, rumors, and a change in policy. But it's also possible that there was a deal for some forms of political and financial qui-pro-quo between Trump and the Russians, which could include illegal actions.

We still don't know all the details, and we'll likely have to wait a bit more.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#589

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:22 pm

To be fair I tend to think that it's likely that some sort of deal was reached, probably dirt on Clinton, possibly some sort of financial agreement, in exchange for a less confrontational foreign policy, which Trump was likely to pursue anyway. But I'm open to the possibility that this might be wrong.

I'm not exactly sure whether what exactly went on violates any US laws, because we still don't have a lot of details. That's what the Muller investigation is for.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#590

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:24 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: Clarence wrote:
The fucking FBI shouldn't be using opposition research paid for by EITHER of the two main political parties, let alone the party currently in power against a rival political campaign and esp so during an election.
So if someone in the RNC became aware that Clinton or other dems may have broken the law and they tell the FBI they should just ignore it? You must be joking!
Also, it wasn't the Steele dossier that originally tipped off the FBI to investigate possible Russian interference. Papadopoulos got drunk and blabbed about the Trump Tower meeting to an Aussie diplomat and this was relayed to the FBI. All of this before the Steele thing.
No, it wasn't Georgie P that started the investigation: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/9472 ... 46816.html

Like I said, using the NYT as a source on ANYTHING Trump is a bad idea.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#591

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:26 pm

Kirbmarc wrote: To be fair I tend to think that it's likely that some sort of deal was reached, probably dirt on Clinton, possibly some sort of financial agreement, in exchange for a less confrontational foreign policy, which Trump was likely to pursue anyway. But I'm open to the possibility that this might be wrong.

I'm not exactly sure whether what exactly went on violates any US laws, because we still don't have a lot of details. That's what the Muller investigation is for.
Your problem is that you believe the Mueller investigation is a real investigation rather than a political witchunt hoping to dig up some dirt or even any 'process' crime they can on Trump. I don't see any good evidence for your belief.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#592

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:30 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 0de1042537
Clarence: All indications are that Elias kept the details of exactly who was doing the research to himself at least for the early part of the investigation and probably until after Steele dossier. The facts are, that the DNC did not use any information from that dossier during the election campaign. If Clinton was directing this why didn't she use any of the info to help her win the election?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#593

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:35 pm

Clarence wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: Clarence wrote:
The fucking FBI shouldn't be using opposition research paid for by EITHER of the two main political parties, let alone the party currently in power against a rival political campaign and esp so during an election.
So if someone in the RNC became aware that Clinton or other dems may have broken the law and they tell the FBI they should just ignore it? You must be joking!
Also, it wasn't the Steele dossier that originally tipped off the FBI to investigate possible Russian interference. Papadopoulos got drunk and blabbed about the Trump Tower meeting to an Aussie diplomat and this was relayed to the FBI. All of this before the Steele thing.
No, it wasn't Georgie P that started the investigation: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/9472 ... 46816.html

Like I said, using the NYT as a source on ANYTHING Trump is a bad idea.
They were investigating the hack of the Clinton emails but not possible Trump collusion before the Papadopoulos thing, at least that is how I read the link you dropped. If I'm wrong, kindly point to where that says differently.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#594

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:40 pm

Clarence wrote:
Like I said, using the NYT as a source on ANYTHING Trump is a bad idea.
So why did you link to them in post 575. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#595

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:42 pm

Clarence wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: To be fair I tend to think that it's likely that some sort of deal was reached, probably dirt on Clinton, possibly some sort of financial agreement, in exchange for a less confrontational foreign policy, which Trump was likely to pursue anyway. But I'm open to the possibility that this might be wrong.

I'm not exactly sure whether what exactly went on violates any US laws, because we still don't have a lot of details. That's what the Muller investigation is for.
Your problem is that you believe the Mueller investigation is a real investigation rather than a political witchunt hoping to dig up some dirt or even any 'process' crime they can on Trump. I don't see any good evidence for your belief.
What is the evidence that the Muller investigation is a political witch hunt?

There is, actually, some evidence against any political connotation of the investigation. Among the things that Muller is investigating there is this:
In August 2017, Mueller's team issued grand jury subpoenas to officials in six firms, including lobbying firm Podesta Group and Mercury LLC with regard to activities on behalf of a public-relations campaign for a pro-Russian Ukrainian organization called European Centre for a Modern Ukraine. The public relations effort was headed by Paul Manafort, and took place from 2012 to 2014.[128][129][130][131] Tony Podesta, brother of Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta, is head of the Podesta Group. John Podesta is not employed by the company. Mercury LLC is headed by Vin Weber, a former GOP congressman.[132] Mueller is investigating whether the firms violated the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA).
Apparently lobbyists of both sides are being less than clear on what they do in their PR campaign abroad. The brother of the Clinton campaign chairman might also be involved.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#596

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:45 pm

By the way. former congressmen, senators and other important political figures should be banned from lobbying.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#597

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:59 pm

Kirbmarc wrote: By the way. former congressmen, senators and other important political figures should be banned from lobbying.
Also, there should be arms length between firms that raise money for candidates and run campaigns and lobbyists. As of now the same groups that run campaigns turn around and lobby the people they help to elect.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#598

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:09 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: Clarence wrote:
Like I said, using the NYT as a source on ANYTHING Trump is a bad idea.
So why did you link to them in post 575. :lol: :lol: :lol:
To use your favorite source against you. When even the NYT (which you seem to worship despite their Shenanigans in the 2nd Gulf War -strangely enough, being too deferential and not suspicious enough of the Intelligence Community hhhmmm I'm starting to see a pattern- where they basically had a reporter that took politicized CIA content as fact) admits that The Democrats lawfirm - acting on behalf of Clinton and the DNC -hired a 'dig up dirt for money' company and used that to create a Dossier at least part of which was used for a FISA surveillance request on a US Citizen well, I needn't spell things out for you.

But it turns out that you agree with me that the Steele Dossier is a political construct, so I really had no need.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#599

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:10 pm

Kirbmarc wrote: By the way. former congressmen, senators and other important political figures should be banned from lobbying.
I think we all agree with that.
But that won't solve our out of control Intelligence Community problem.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#600

Post by Clarence » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:18 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Clarence wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: Clarence wrote:
The fucking FBI shouldn't be using opposition research paid for by EITHER of the two main political parties, let alone the party currently in power against a rival political campaign and esp so during an election.
So if someone in the RNC became aware that Clinton or other dems may have broken the law and they tell the FBI they should just ignore it? You must be joking!
Also, it wasn't the Steele dossier that originally tipped off the FBI to investigate possible Russian interference. Papadopoulos got drunk and blabbed about the Trump Tower meeting to an Aussie diplomat and this was relayed to the FBI. All of this before the Steele thing.
No, it wasn't Georgie P that started the investigation: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/9472 ... 46816.html

Like I said, using the NYT as a source on ANYTHING Trump is a bad idea.
They were investigating the hack of the Clinton emails but not possible Trump collusion before the Papadopoulos thing, at least that is how I read the link you dropped. If I'm wrong, kindly point to where that says differently.
Have you forgotten this narrative?

http://therightscoop.com/hillary-campai ... ald-trump/
They were accusing Trump of RUSSIAN COLLUSION before even the election was over!
And we know the FBI was spying on the transition team. And if I'm to believe some stuff I've seen (but is NOT yet verified) Trumps campaign was being spied on (possibly without even a FISA warrant) much earlier in the year.

Anyway, the real threat to Mueller isn't Trump. It's the IG investigation. Strzok and Ohr aren't the only people in the 'investigation' who have conflicts of interest. Let's just leave it at that for now.

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