Skepticism, a comparison between normal, non-attention-seeking people (henceforth "mundanes") and to skeptic hipsters (henceforth "skepsters"). This is a short list. I'll be interested to see what others have to contribute.
Skepticism
Mundanes: A process of determining what is reasonably true.
Skepsters: A way to demonstrate that I'm smarter, morally superior, and generally better than you.
Science
Mundanes: The best tool humans have to make discoveries about the world and to make our lives better.
Skepsters: I believe in science harder than you do.
Scientists
Mundanes: People who have specialized in a scientific discipline.
Skepsters: I'm a scientist!! I'm a magical god who knows more about everything ever than you do!
Religious people
Mundanes: I disagree with them, but I can have decent conversations with them. Some are my friends.
Skepsters: INTELLECTUALLY INFERIOR, MORALLY DEVOID LUNATICS!!!
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Skepster buzz-words
social justice - skepticism is about social justice!
dictionary atheist - dictionary atheists are so tedious and stupid! atheist liberal feminist vegans are the one true atheist!
hyper-skeptic - my statement was uncontroversial. anyone who doesn't agree is a hyper-skeptic.
privilege - you cannot possibly understand because of your privilege; check your privilege!
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The primary difference between normal skeptics and skepsters is that normal skeptics employ skepticism in their daily lives to get a better grasp on what is and what is not worth believing. Skepsters take skepticism beyond what it was ever intended to be and turn it into a lifestyle. They adopt the label "skeptic" so they can get on the Internet and go to the coffee shop and talk to their friends about how much better they are than you To skepsters, skepticism is a fashion statement, a status symbol, no different than buying expensive clothes to show off their own affluence.
Skepsters
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GenerallyFading
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Re: Skepsters
You mean...........I AM allowed to talk to my Bible following friends? I thought I was supposed to cast them off because they were so stupid. And that my method of showing them that the Bible is wrong by discussing it with them was moronic and something a certain person "Would never do because she'd find it boring".0verlord wrote: Religious people
Mundanes: I disagree with them, but I can have decent conversations with them. Some are my friends.
Skepsters: INTELLECTUALLY INFERIOR, MORALLY DEVOID LUNATICS!!!
Goodness. Need to do a lot of rethinking....
Re: Skepsters
The topic of a recent FTB conversation, recorded for all posterity in video format and transcript, was "social justice." A selection of quotes below, because their definition of social justice is not the same as mine, and I is confused.
Russell Glasser:
tl;dr #2: "If we spin it as social justice, they will join us."
So yeah, buzzword.
Russell Glasser:
Ashley Miller:But, having said that, the kinds of atheists who congregate and hang out and talk about their atheism tend to have a shared set of values. And usually I say that is centered around science and rationality, but more and more I think we’re finding that this social justice topic is something we all prefer to have in common also. Because it’s like, we’re all atheists, now what do we do, living in the world?
Ian Cromwell:I think that being and atheist, and atheism in general, is a social justice issue. We are a minority, and a lot of what we’re trying to do is make this minority acceptable. And that’s a lot of what social justice is about. It’s about creating an environment where minority perspectives are known and understood. I think, by definition, by being an atheist activist, you are a social justice activist. And I think a lot of atheists don’t seem to realize that.
tl;dr #1: "Social justice is about meeeeeeeee!"There are people who know they are atheists, but don’t spend the time, who are afraid or inhibited somehow, to get involved. I guess what I’m saying is make a note of all these people who aren’t participating, and then say gee, I wonder why they aren’t participating? And a lot of that has to do with social justice issues. If we improve social justice, make atheism more accessible, we will find more people to join us.
tl;dr #2: "If we spin it as social justice, they will join us."
So yeah, buzzword.
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SenorBeagle
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Re: Skepsters
I'm going to try out serious mode, for a sec, see how it fits me.
On the topic of 'social justice', is it just me, or is that a term that positively reeks of wanting payback? I always look at it, and think (rightly or wrongly, tis just a gut feeling) that when people talk about social justice, they're not talking about putting right what once went wrong (serious mode failed, I couldn't resist the reference), but rather, doing more wrongs to get back at the people who they perceived to wrong them.
I'd prefer social equality, frankly!
On the topic of 'social justice', is it just me, or is that a term that positively reeks of wanting payback? I always look at it, and think (rightly or wrongly, tis just a gut feeling) that when people talk about social justice, they're not talking about putting right what once went wrong (serious mode failed, I couldn't resist the reference), but rather, doing more wrongs to get back at the people who they perceived to wrong them.
I'd prefer social equality, frankly!
Re: Skepsters
WTF is Russell smoking. He belongs to the tracking Atheist Community of Austin, that, you know, non-profit organization that (as we are frequently reminded) has members from all walks of life, from liberal to conservative and all points in between. I can't say how many times the hosts on the Atheist Experience have said just such a thing on the show. Did he think they were lying when they said it, or does he only hang out with those he agrees with? I went to my Facebook today to read my family and friends posts. One posted a pro-Romney T-shirt (I can't stand the jackass), another liked a pro-NRA pic someone else had (I have a handgun and support responsible firearm use, but can't stand the NRA) and another posted a pic of St Ronnie of Reagan against socialized medicine (and he goes to the VA to get his socialized medicine!). I also work with a few holy rollers (and one went to an Exodus International meeting this past week - and boy did I bite my tongue there!). Granted, I'm the only out atheist, although a few are more apathetic than anything else, but I have friends with a wide range of opinions. This "we all share the same values" crap is BS, and he should know it. Gah, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I don't know him personally, but I've been to their bat cruise several times and will probably still go. Hopefully he's just speaking for himself (as is Matt) and not for the ACA as a group. If so, then I don't think I can support them either.
Re: Skepsters
@ SenorBeagle - Yeah, it does seem to be all about them, insults real and perceived, disrespect, payback etc. IOW, not the issues I'm used to associating with social justice or social equality.
@ Badger3K - There aren't many atheists in my immediate environment, but the few whom I know are pretty diverse politically and socioeconomically. Most of them disagree with me on environmental issues, for example.
The bat cruise sounds like something I'd love to do, but if I thought there was even a chance that one of the FTBers, particularly Myers, might be in town as an invited speaker for the group, I wouldn't even consider attending.
@ Badger3K - There aren't many atheists in my immediate environment, but the few whom I know are pretty diverse politically and socioeconomically. Most of them disagree with me on environmental issues, for example.
The bat cruise sounds like something I'd love to do, but if I thought there was even a chance that one of the FTBers, particularly Myers, might be in town as an invited speaker for the group, I wouldn't even consider attending.
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SenorBeagle
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- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:23 am
Re: Skepsters
@ BarnOwl
Indeed. See, my view on this is simple. Everyone should be treated equally, and given the exact same opportunities as everyone else. Actual, real equality, like. A fool's dream, perhaps, but sensible people will make progress, slowly but surely.
Indeed. See, my view on this is simple. Everyone should be treated equally, and given the exact same opportunities as everyone else. Actual, real equality, like. A fool's dream, perhaps, but sensible people will make progress, slowly but surely.
Re: Skepsters
The bat cruise is fun, and the times I've been (2 or three, I forget) it's been apolitical - people get together in groups and talk as they will. The last time I was recovering from being sick and just stayed with my friends/family who came with me. The cruises are run through the summer and they don't have to be in something like this - any group can pay for a boat, or you can buy seats on their open boats (i.e. open to public). They even have small scale dinner cruises where you eat dinner on the boat then look at the bats. It's nice. I have enough friends who want to go that a small boat might be possible, but not everyone can afford it in this economy so that will have to wait until the future. My first year we chatted with some people then went back to Threadgills for dinner. A good time. If one of the baboons were there I'd just ignore them. There's a time and a place for everything.BarnOwl wrote:@ SenorBeagle - Yeah, it does seem to be all about them, insults real and perceived, disrespect, payback etc. IOW, not the issues I'm used to associating with social justice or social equality.
@ Badger3K - There aren't many atheists in my immediate environment, but the few whom I know are pretty diverse politically and socioeconomically. Most of them disagree with me on environmental issues, for example.
The bat cruise sounds like something I'd love to do, but if I thought there was even a chance that one of the FTBers, particularly Myers, might be in town as an invited speaker for the group, I wouldn't even consider attending.
Re: Skepsters
BarnOwl, everything skepsters stand for is a buzz-word. They aren't sincere, they just want attention.
Thing is... not all of us are attention whores. Some of us like to vote, live our lives however we would like to live it, and -- this is very important so listen closely -- shut the fuck up about it.
Thing is... not all of us are attention whores. Some of us like to vote, live our lives however we would like to live it, and -- this is very important so listen closely -- shut the fuck up about it.
Re: Skepsters
I'm already doing a bunch of posts, but I'll get better - it's almost bed time for me so I can't do much else now - but if I had a dime for every post or comment that I've typed out, including some I've worked 60+ minutes on, then deleted and left the issue alone...I'd have my money issues solved. Some times it's better to just be quiet and walk away. I've had things happen to me that I thought about posting about, or bringing up in conversation, but I always ask what will that do? Will it solve the problem, or will it make it worse? Do what I have to say enhance the discussion, add any lulz (ok, so some of those do seem to fall flat), or what have you. I just started twitter, did a few reposts, but still can't really see tweeting -very few people online know me, or know the people I know, so tweeting my life would make no sense to other people, so why waste the time? I criticized my nephew for posting a lot of his ex-relationship on Facebook - we've all been there, but our drunken, egotistical, sad-sack whining and angst was done in private - not out in the open for everyone to see. The current culture (especially kids) is that they post everything - but then complain when someone says something against them! I've made comments to kids in class and they complain that they weren't talking to me - and I tell them that when they talk loud enough for the class to hear everything, then they gave everyone permission to comment. Looking at some of this melodrama reminds me of a teenagers diary (or at least what I imagine it to be, based on tv and my imagination). Like Ophelia, Becky, and others, it's all about ME.0verlord wrote:BarnOwl, everything skepsters stand for is a buzz-word. They aren't sincere, they just want attention.
Thing is... not all of us are attention whores. Some of us like to vote, live our lives however we would like to live it, and -- this is very important so listen closely -- shut the fuck up about it.
Damn, a bit tired, and I think I wandered a bit there, but I think I got my point across, which was agreement with explanation.
Re: Skepsters
They're all special little snowflakes, and we are expected to accommodate for them. If they walk into a restaurant and they don't eat meat, they expect the restaurant to STOP SERVING MEAT. This is the caliber of entitlement we're dealing with.Looking at some of this melodrama reminds me of a teenagers diary (or at least what I imagine it to be, based on tv and my imagination). Like Ophelia, Becky, and others, it's all about ME.
