SlymePit vs. Atheism Plus

#1

I'm posting this on both forums, word for word. My apologies in advance.

I'm working on a post comparing the two forums (which are alike in a number of surprising ways) but so far it is mostly quantitative and historical and oddly dry. I'd like to try and get a sense (mostly from non-mods) of what it is about the moderation rules, stated goals, and unstated ethos of this particular forum which draws you to post here. I have my suspicions, of course, having lurked quite a bit, but I don't want to paraphrase when I can quote directly from the users themselves.

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#2

Have you thought about asking the same question at the ~~Judean People's Front's~~ Atheism+ "non-safe space"?

You might have luck there, given that it was founded based on (at least in part) dissatisfaction with the main forum.

Splitters.

#3

I don't post a whole lot, but I started lurking intermittently back during EG, and I started posting when the slime pit first moved to a forum. A big appeal of the Slyme Pit is that you will not be judged. You might be judged by the individual members, but there's no arbiter that represents the will of the forum itself. Because of this it is possible to be very unpopular at the Slyme Pit and yet remain. As far as I am aware the only accounts banned from here are those that make spam posts.

This lack of judgement means that some members are rather salty, for example welcoming newcomers by telling them to go fuck themselves. The big difference between someone saying that here and someone saying it at A+ for example, is the intent. Here, it is a warning to people who are easily offended, it's basically a test you pass by not leaving in a huff. At A+ it means that it is the will of the forum, to be enforced by mods, that the target has done something unforgivable and they should leave and never come back. It's the difference between "You might not like it here," and "You're kind aren't welcome here."

#4

Hmm yeah, why not? Sort of blows the symmetry of the piece but I'll give it a go.

#5

Sorry my last reply was to Jonathan. Thanks for that LMU, most insightful.

#6

It's the only place where there's a free and honest conversation about elevatorgate and related dramas.

I posted on Abbie's threads because there was literally nowhere else talking about it that didn't ban those who disagreed. Even though that isn't the case now (Twitter has lit up with criticism, and there are other blogs, etc.) I post here sometimes because it's an extension of Abbie's threads.

Also, I think that people on here sometimes make witty observations. There's a lot of rubbish as well, but there is some stuff that's amusing!

I don't really think the 'pit is anything like the A+ forums. A+ is possibly the most controlled forum I've ever seen online, including religious forums, and the 'pit is far more free. I think that the 'pitters often get personal with their arguments, and that's one of my problems with the SJW contingent on FTB - perhaps there's a similarity there.

#7

I've been a member from the beginning of this site but a lurker on the old ERV thread.
The old thread on ERV, at least at one time, did have a couple of individuals who could be reasonably described as misogynists. To do the same with those regularly posting on the new slymepit you need to burn the dictionaries and veer into Svan definition land.

Why do I post here?
I see this site as a repository of all information regarding the ongoing hypocrisy of the FTB/Skepchick/A+ crowd.
I don't agree with everyone who posts here and I don't accept that posting here means you agree with anything but what you yourself have posted.
I think a kind of ethos has developed here.
Slymepitters are against doxing (just view the comments after Justin Vacula posted the Surly Amie surlynamics registration details or the response to the new poster who revealed oolons personal details from his website registration - and remember that oolon has shown himself to be an unmitigated lying troll!)
I certainly do not see this place as a hate site. We have not arranged any organized targeting of the FTB crowd while they do it constantly.
We do not seek to bring internet political disagreements into the meatspace - such as by trying to get people fired from their jobs - something the FTB crown do constantly.
We do not seek to redefine words of hate (such as misogyny and racism) and then brand those people who have political disagreements with us as misogynists and racists - again, a frequent and even defining tactic of the FTB crowd.
As for myself I think the best weapon against them is ridicule, to laugh at their hyperbolic whining and gross hypocrisy.

#8

I'm a Slymepitter because of an anonymous email I received telling me I had been targeted by the ERV institute as a possible candidate for underground subversive activities against the dark overlords of FTB. It was posed as a riddle, and apparently I gave the correct response:

Q: What is PZ Myers?

My reply: A right shithead.

Immediately, my computer was commadeered by a remote operator who immediately began installing various surveillance programs and hacking tools - all aimed at crushing the dread FTB and Watsonista movement. I was advised to attend a training centre 'somewhere in the continental US' (I can reveal no more than that, in case any of the 'uninitiated' are watching), and with a thirst for adventure and some way cool CoD skillz under my Tekken black-belt, I attended.

Six months worth of intensive training followed, administered by the mysterious agent 'A. B. Smith'. I learned of the underground guerilla tactics I would need to deploy to undermine and destroy FTB: how to stalk them surreptitiously by looking at their blogs. How to run a campaign of counter-propaganda by writing blog posts that disagree with them. Deadly far-eastern unarmed combat techniques were learned in order to counter any possible physical threat by the enemy's chief henchman, Greg 'I'll kick your ass' Laden. (Rumour has it that Laden has developed a terrifying new technique of shocking his adversaries into imbecility by the very power of written words alone. Though I am presently awaiting new orders on how to deal with this threat, I suspect any counter-measures might involve bringing oneself round from Greg's 'excessive-syllables-for-one-sentence' shock my immediately reading words arranged in a more amenable pattern - such as something from the Janet & John books).

Though the intensive training programme is now complete, I still have to attend regular refresher courses - just two months ago, I completed an assignment with agent 'Thunderf00t', who instructed me in the cunning arts of hacking FTB listservers by re-inputting your name and password on the login email. In the meantime, I attend the Slymepit forum regularly, in order to keep updated with our present schemes and secret plans, all of which are in full view of the public. Because we are indeed that cunning.

Fnord.

#9

Futher to my last post: I think I ought to point out to my fellow Slymepit operatives to not just be prepared for physical violence from 'Kick-Ass' Laden, either - the FTB organisation also employs a deadly midget bodyguard codenamed 'Julian':

http://myfivebest.com/wp-content/upload ... cknack.jpg

#10

Tigzy â€” That post is a thing of beauty. It must be given it's own platform.

#11

It's all about fishsticks

#12

Za-zen wrote:It's all about fishsticks

Fish don't have sticks, you silly boy. They have fingers.

#13

I gravitated to ERV after mistaking Pharyngula and FTB for sites encouraging discourse and informed discussion and debate on issues of science, scepticism, and rational thought. It soon became apparent that the goal of Pharyngula and FTB was to coalesce people's individual thought into a nub of thinking acceptable to Big Mother.

First they targeted the Christians, and I just laughed
Then they targeted those who wanted to discuss the etymology and utility of words such as twat, so I pissed off.

The SlymePit is a virtual pub. The problems of the universe are solved here. Conversations can be low brow or high brow (and often both in the same sentence), there is all sorts of niggardly behaviour and black humour, and we get to laugh at the baboons from our cage.

#14

I used to read both the old scienceblogs ERV and Pharyngula, then followed Pharyngula to FTB. Then the whole Elevatorgate situation blew up and I became increasingly disgusted by the ridiculous hyperbole being slung about by the commenters over at FTB, not to mention the treatment of the "Witches of the Week". The atmosphere here is a lot freer and while I don't always approve of everything posted here I know full well that nobody here is what we have been claimed to be by the increasingly irrational femistasi. Not to mention that the sheer ridiculousness of what goes on over at A+ never ceases to amuse me.

#15

Executive summary:
Slimepit - Exposes Hypocrisy as well as it's members are able.
FfTB - Conceals Hypocrisy as well as it's members are able.
AâœTheism - A frightening view into a bizarro-ward of feeble damaged circus-freaks.

#16

Ditto to all of the above.

#17

I like the company. Pitters tend to be funny, witty and quite educated. I enjoy the FC(n), A+ and Skepchick latest facepalm news, and I also enjoy most of the other diverse discussions on multiple subjects.

And I'm not Franc!

#18

I work in a professional position with a relative amount of visibility in my career. I also support a disabled partner and a child.

This is the only place I feel I can talk and express my personal opinions without risking my life and my personal security.

#19

[quote=physical threat by the enemy's chief henchman, Greg 'I'll kick your ass' Laden (something from the Janet & John books).

[/quote] Laden doesn't scare me, Surley Amy Kicks ass on a daily basis. I was gonna say how weirdly attractive i found Janet in those books but i was only 5. Is that too young to be a misogynist &/or part of the Patriarchy? I don't want them coming after me, i'm already having nightmares about "NECK THINGS"!!! :o

#20

Notung wrote:It's the only place where there's a free and honest conversation about elevatorgate and related dramas.

I posted on Abbie's threads because there was literally nowhere else talking about it that didn't ban those who disagreed.

There are no doubt a number of private closed forums where such discussion is allowed and encouraged, but they aren't subject to public scrutiny.

#21

Monkey-brain recoil. Does the atheist community really need to Plus-up? Not just no - but fuck no. To date my humanist atheism has done me remarkably well navigating what is - and what is not. Anyway, dare I question the company Jen could provide a white middle-class American humanist atheist? hardly

I stumbled upon this forum, it so much harkens back to my WTF?! sites that I scarcely considered my typical pedestrian approach of nonchalance - a decision to regret? probably not

btw - my first post here. waiting for the blood

#22

Eat a bag of dicks.

j/k Nice to meet you

#23

I thought is was "eat a bowl of dicks"?

You bowlist, you.

#24

bowl of dicks, bag of dicks. at least you didn't send the wrath of god - thnx

#25

Phase two complete -
http://skepticink.com/backgroundprobabi ... s-part-23/

The experiment continues. I know, I know, you're not a zoo.

#26

Interesting read, d4m10n. I am looking forward to Part 3.

#27

d4m10n wrote:Phase two complete -
http://skepticink.com/backgroundprobabi ... s-part-23/

The experiment continues. I know, I know, you're not a zoo.

Damn straight. We're free rangers in the internet game park.

#28

For what it's worth I'll add my tuppence worth.

I had heard of the pit for some time whilst it was still over at ERV's place and of course it was all bad, in fact pretty much any time it came up was to reference what a cesspit of pestilence it was and after seeing Lee assert it to be a "hate" site I decided I needed to actually see. So I mostly lurked in the beginning, reading along and encountering no abominations and no hate, sure I saw poor arguments, cheap insult and whatnot but nothing hateful, certainly nothing worse than one can regularly encounter at FTB et al.

I also second the sentiments that it is one of the few places I've found where the holy writ carries no weight, no inviolable sanctity and it will be mercilessly put to the test. It is also refreshing to not have fulminating cretins and oh so delicate flowers spewing their beloved verbal excrement and abuse to language, not a single serious whinge to check privilege or bleat for trigger warnings, no squeaks of 'misogyny', 'troll', 'MRA' and so on. There's actual reason to be found, not articles of dogma to be slavishly adhered to and self appointed ideologues to be worshiped as though the sun itself shone from the hairy posteriors. No blacklists of language and thought, no hierarchy to proffer obeisance to.

I de-lurked mostly because those histrionic half-wits think they have the authority and influence to tell everyone else where they can go, what they can say and who they can associate with when they blather about identifying the "good" people and kicking the evil ones to the curb. I just wanted to add my presence as a demonstration that those imperious people don't carry any weight, I'll conduct myself as I please.

As for the other place, if they had power they would commit every abuse and oppression they rail against, they're the kind that thinks something is only bad when it's happening to you but perfectly okay when you're perpetrating it..., because you suffered see, of course it follows that your suffering entitles you to revenge on anything you elect to declare a target. One part people that need counseling, the other truly abusive maggots whose only check is their complete impotency.

#29

Ah it was linked here! My bad.

Well I put it on the main thread too because it shows why A+ is failing a bit. :/

#30

Was anyone at all surprised by how d4m10n's post was received over at A+?

#31

d4m10n wrote:...what it is about the moderation rules, stated goals, and unstated ethos of this particular forum which draws you to post here. ...

Late to give an answer. Enjoyed your part 2 of 3 today. Not at ALL surprised at how you were received at A+safe forum.

If you're looking for any more responses: Here, skepticism is not only allowed but actually valued. People can disagree with each other, or you can critique the content of someone's post, without anyone reading an insult into it. This is how skepticism should work.

#32

If you're still collecting opinions d4m10n, I'll like to take the opportunity to echo (echo, echo, echo...) what others have said about enjoying the anti-moderation policy here. One a personal note I also like the fact that things almost always get linked to around here by posters when they reference something that's going on outside the Pit. It helps with credibility of the people posting even when I at least have the courtesy to check directly whether or not I agree/disagree with their take on a subject.

IMO, the original slimepit that began at the old ERV threads got started because a lot of us were experiencing the banhammer from FtB (or the bloggers who would eventually make up the loudest segment of FtB) for raising even the slightest objection about either elevatorgate or Watson's treatment of McGraw (or anything else about that issue), and eventually even points relating the atheist/skeptics movement itself started to fell like a person's walking on eggshells. So naturally we gravitated to the place where we could speak freely (the old ERV thread). Now I think we're mostly still here to continue in the same fashion and have some lulz along the way. If there is a 'mission statement' or purpose to the Slyme Pit I haven't been made aware of it. I think we're mostly just here to shoot the shit, and point out (and mockingly chronicle) the ridiculousness of a bunch of people who take themselves way too seriously and (again, IMO) need to be taken down a peg from the pedestal they seem to have put their beliefs and feelings on.

#33

This is going to sound crazy, but it seems to me that both forums are â€˜safeâ€™ in some sense, and that this is a huge part of their respective draws. The â€˜pit is a place where you can safely disagree with the conventional wisdom in terms as colourful or bland as you like, whereas A+ is safe from any language which might possibly be considered oppressive to any group other than the â€œprivilegedâ€ majority.

#34

I'm not sure I agree that Atheism+ is a safe space at all. Even some of the established members have been yelled at for trivial 'offences', like in this case. It's also a perfect example of how the moderators enforce the rules selectively based on how well you conform to their ideology: Setar's vitriolic attack wasn't even mentioned, while irkthepurists was warned for using the phrase 'ladies and gentlemen' and for a 'homophobic' joke (which was obviously an attack on Republicans rather than gays). I'm sure some of those who aren't totally unquestioning drones must feel like they're walking on eggshells!

I quite liked the discussion that was going on here regarding the hypocrisy of FfTB and Atheism+, so after having lurked for some time I signed up.

#35

Candyguitar wrote:I'm not sure I agree that Atheism+ is a safe space at all

Quite.
AâœžTheism Fora are quite the least safe spaces in the intertoobz that my imagination is able to visualise.

Like having a crack SAS platoon of armed Genetically-modified Crack-crazed Castrated Insane Psychopathic Genocidal Circus-Clowns with upside-down melted & slashed Michael Jackson Masks & running chain-saws scream at you for the "passdance of the daze", in maniacal laughter.

#36

You can't win with social justice warriors until you go absolutely bugfuck crazy. You always need to escalate everything.

#37

d4m10n wrote:This is going to sound crazy, but it seems to me that both forums are â€˜safeâ€™ in some sense, and that this is a huge part of their respective draws. The â€˜pit is a place where you can safely disagree with the conventional wisdom in terms as colourful or bland as you like, whereas A+ is safe from any language which might possibly be considered oppressive to any group other than the â€œprivilegedâ€ majority.

A+ is safe? Like how a rape victim was banned for daring to disagree with a moderator that in their opinion, rape was not worse than death? Do you know what it is like for a rape victim to hear that they would be better off dead? I'm a woman and two decades ago,when I was twelve years old, I had a knife held to my throat and I was raped. I acquiesced to the assault so that I didn't have my throat slit. This POS moderator at A+ is saying that I would have been better off dying. Fuck him! Do you know what I would have missed if I would have died that night? My wedding day, the birth of my daughter, falling in love...I could go on and on. Yes, it was a horrible and traumatic event but I eventually healed from it. A+ is not a safe space! They're are sick...

#38

fascination wrote:They're are sick...

The best of them are just sick.
The residue are clinically insane.
Screaming Bonkeroony.
To a truly alarming & disturbing extent.
Seriously.

Early Cuyler · #39

FWIW,

I've been lurking at A+ forums ever since they banned me for denouncing black supremacists.
I've noticed that site activity has tapered off significantly, to the point that any time i poke my head in there, there's more moderators online than regular posters. A+ forums are dying fast.

#40

http://slymepit.com/staticimgs/spam.jpg

#41

Michael K Gray wrote:Executive summary:
Slimepit - Exposes Hypocrisy as well as it's members are able.
FfTB - Conceals Hypocrisy as well as it's members are able.
AâœTheism - A frightening view into a bizarro-ward of feeble damaged circus-freaks.

LOL, I loved this. I tried posting to A+ a week or two ago and learned quick that their idea of 'safe space' means that rational thought is suppressed, everybody is angry and everybody hates each other. I'd rather post to an unmoderated forum like this than spend time on A+.

BTW, hello... I'm new here. I just found this place through Al Stefanelli's blog. I'll have to lurk around a bit to learn some of the acronyms here, like FfTB. Has anybody posted a handy glossary for this stuff yet?

#42

There might be such a glossary at phawrongula.

Ah yes: http://phawrongula.wikia.com/wiki/Glossary

Btw most activity goes on at the Periodic Table of Swearing/Undead Thread.