If thou gazest long into the Pit, the Pit will also gaze into thee

Humphrey_Hedgehog wrote: :clap:
This is brilliant.

Seconded. Actually, probably more like fifthteenthded at this point.

By the way, I can't post here when I'm at work, either as a guest or logged in. IP block, pitside I think.

I don't think Elam cares. In fact the article seems to be written in such a way that most people will think it real rather than (bad) satire. There's not many people who have the ability to follow up a published article to see if its real. They are simply going to assume it is. Perhaps that's the p...

By the way, I blogged about the 'shut up and listen' thing:

HERE

By the way, the rape story mentioned is linked here. Try to spot the point that might be relevant to skepticism. Still, a bit stupid of Elam - he must have known that that bit would be missed by some (including me - at first I was horrified), and dishonestly ignored by others. I still don't have a ...

Bhurzum wrote:Don't forget, by default all of the women who post here are assholes, chuds, douche nozzles etc.

No room for humanity :(

I'm surprised they admitted that there are women who post here. Usually they ignore the women, and pretend it's only men.

TedDahlberg wrote:Seems we're getting some hints why they think women being people is a radical notion.

Indeed!

Also, I thought that people who don't think they themselves are human are the really extreme SJWs. You know, 'otherkin'.

AbsurdWalls wrote:It is good to have you back around Notung.

Ah cheers for saying so. I don't really see the point in deliberately avoiding any forum.

Ulysses wrote:Since youâ€™re the one making the claim the women at the Slymepit consider themselves to be human, itâ€™s up to you to justify this claim. Be specific and give examples to support this dubious affirmation.

If there's any such thing as hyper-skepticism, then this is it!

Amazing. Haha I didn't see that. Drosera has just popped up on Ron's latest post (#113): Haha. I have just been trying to defend Ronald Lindsay over at Pharyngula against the attempted character assassinations by PZ and his commentariat (thread called â€œItâ€™s 4am and people are really annoyedâ€)...

I can't believe that from Pixlee. As far as I can tell, you've engaged with the conference, tweeted accurately about each talk, haven't disrupted anything, treated the whole conference with respect etc. etc. etc. His tweet was totally unprovoked bullying, and I'm pleased Amanda Knief had the decency...

It is disturbing that Tim Minchin follows Kilstein, though. Thought he was better than that. I wouldn't worry too much about who people follow (unless it's @ELEVATORGATE... dun dun dun...). I follow Ray Comfort and Ken Ham. My main account follows Sarah Palin. Admittedly I didn't follow Nick Griffi...

'Abortion of a speech'? Is Kilstein trivialising the serious and difficult choice women sometimes have to make?

Gurdur replies to Kilstein: Tim Skellett â€@Gurdur 18m @jamiekilstein @Laura_Rhymes Pardon me, but wasn't it @RALindsay/@center4inquiry who did most of the finance for #wiscfi? Pretty polite and reasonable. He gets this response: Jamie Kilstein â€@jamiekilstein 16m @Gurdur @Laura_Rhymes @RALindsay...

That â€˜Dear Muslimaâ€™ represents some kind of fallacy is merely FTB/Skepchick* propaganda. They want to make you believe that â€˜Dear Muslimaâ€™ is like saying that bad thing X is not worth considering because Y is worse. But that is not what it is. â€˜Dear Muslimaâ€™ says that creating a flame w...

Jamie Kilstein? If it's him, he's an unfunny stand-up comedian who is a friend of Watson and is frequently found tweeting crap about how Dawkins is so terrible. <video removed> "And not a single heckler was destroyed that day". That was like a schoolteacher attempting to control a class, only less ...

Yeah she seems fine. She's pro-Atheism+, but that's ok. It's not the ideas themselves but holding them dogmatically that gets to me.

Prediction: I think everyone's going to be disappointed with Fogg. I think he'll be open enough to other ideas, and won't delete comments just because they disagree, etc. So that's fine in my book. However - remember what happened when NSC and ZomgitsCriss joined - they were flooded with so much hyp...

What *IS* the Great Rift? One theory: ... Has the Nugent dialogue come to an agreement on the disagreement yet? It's absolutely crucial to any dialogue that tries to solve things. That's why I voted 'waste of time', since they don't seem to be trying to answer this question. By the way, while I'm h...

This is what I think:

http://www.skepticink.com/notung/2013/0 ... will-fail/

Quite right Skep tickle - if there's to be any moderation at all then that part is exactly the sort of thing that should be moderated. And let's not forget that if Phil wants to reply, then his reply will be just a footnote that might appear days later if it gets through moderation - and he's subjec...

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2013/04/15/moving-right-along/#comment-227113 Meet Skep tickle, everyone, in case you wanted to know why I only bother to deal with these people in a highly structured environment. And now she goes back into moderation. If it was me that would be the last s...

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2013/04/16/how-to-critique-harassment-policies/ iamcuriousblue writes this: #SkepTech policy:"Sexual language & imagery not appropriate for any conference venue, including talks." In practice: https://t.co/CQJKevpgHe ...and apparently that's calling for the abolitio...

D'you think this would be an inopportune time to inquire about my post at Almost Diamonds, still in moderation 60 hours after submission, asking Setar to clarify whether xe meant "bomb" figuratively or literally when xe asked (rhetorically) "Do they have to actually bomb a conference...?" If it was...

Seriously though, what was/is carrier thinking. Him staunchly defending atheism plus at this point is like buying a return ticket on the titanic AFTER it hit the iceberg. Its like saying how great a success you think New Coke is going to be AFTER coke has already withdrawn it from sale. How can any...

Re: John Greg Well (as you probably know) - I just don't think that the dialogue was set out right in the first place. I don't think that was the fault of the participants. I don't even blame MN, since he did his best with good intentions - it was an admirable effort. Nevertheless, it's either worka...

Also, I think the moderation is too 'enthusiastic'. Yes, there are guidelines, but moderation should be 'reluctant' IMO. I moderate my blog reluctantly, and so far I've allowed everything through except for actual spam. If someone starts doing something I want to moderate, what I'll do is talk to th...

...And the fact that one of the moderators had very recently signed a rejection of a call for open and civil dialogue...

Mind-boggling.

Well, I think if you ever try to list the principles of rationalism, discussion or whatever else, you're bound to perpetually disagree on details. Anyway - I don't think there was ever any chance of agreement on those points. If we were all agreed on the value of a rational approach we wouldn't 'nee...

Good point AbsurdWalls.

To be honest, at this point I'm having problems with the dialogue. The writing is entirely too complicated and it seems like entirely too much work to ensure no one steps on anyone's toes. We don't normally have online discussions like this so I'm at a loss as to why we're going this route. Yeah. I...

I still don't 'get' the dialogue. Will it always be Stephanie Zvan on 'that side' or will someone else take over? Is anyone lined up? What about on 'our side'? When are people going to start hurling insults? (You know it's only a matter of time!)

To the team doing the dialogue with Michael Nugent - nice work so far, but here's why I think it'll fail:

http://www.skepticink.com/notung/2013/0 ... will-fail/

But you flounced!

Yeah yeah. But I thought those who are interested might want to see my post.

I'm off. I'm trying to work out what to do about an alternative. Skeptic Ink is largely drama free and has comment threading (although the hits would be nice). My old blog might be ok - although turning off comment threading will mess up the older threads. But perhaps that's a small price to pay. Wo...

So 'telling people what to do' is ordering them around, as if I'm an authority. Reasoning with them, saying 'I believe this is the best way of doing things' (without expecting anyone to do it merely because of any authority) is what I was attempting to do. And I'm well aware that disagreement of any...

Stop telling grown adults how to behave. At best it's mildly condescending. Do your thing your way, and if people dig it, great. -in reply to- I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do ... I'm just putting my point across for your consideration ... if I fail [to convince] then I can't do anything ab...

But I wouldn't underestimate the critical abilities of the casual onlooker or the neutral observer. Pinning this on Shermer, or calling him a misogynist for futile reasons, is pure spin and twist. Some may fall for it, but most would probably not. Especially as Shermer maintains a civil and reasona...

Did anyone see this? http://ffrf.org/news/blog/item/16576-sh ... nly-debate

It's Dan Barker refusing to participate in a deliberately all-male conference (including the audience). I agree with him FWIW and like how he handled it - a firm, principled and civil response.

The rageful emotional part of my brain is disagreeing with me too, but - and again, fuck you Notung for the links - I have been spending time on that fucking philosophy experiments site and realising that I want to have a morally consistent approach to life. Fucking philosophy eh. Or just go the 'I...

The thing is, it doesn't even answer your question in principle. You were asking how people know that the reason X is criticised is because X is a woman. Her reply wouldn't answer that even if you agreed with her ridiculous ableist claim.

Shut up and listen! Blind people also deny the existence of the external world, because they can't see it. That's why Bishop Berkeley was an idealist; because he was blind. Anyway, joking aside, she could have bastardised Hume's 'Indian Prince' or Plato's 'Cave'. That would say what she wants to say...

AndrewV69 wrote:But hey! Do not let that stop you. Go ahead. How lucky do you feel today? :popcorn:

'Twas a rhetorical question ;)

AndrewV69 wrote:Also, I actually have no real idea if we are "winning" or not. I would like to think that we are, but I would also like to see some solid evidence of it before I would venture to say so.

We'd also need to work out what 'winning' (regarding all this) means!

Because stupid is something you can do something about, but fat is something outside your control ... oh no, wait ... oh never mind I don't like comments about weight because it has nothing to do with anything, isn't nice, and just validates the claims of the people they're trying to criticise, mak...

Re: my attempt at 'lecturing' (pfft): As I said, I wasn't expecting everyone to agree - I was just venting. I knew it would be futile ('well, why did you say it then?' - just venting!) - but there's no need for that AtheismPlusForum-esque reaction. Also, I agree with what decius and Strawkins are sa...

Eightheded.

Also - if there's some kind of stated rule about 'no rape threats' or 'no wishing that people get killed/raped', then that will help dispel the myth that rape threats are what the posters here do. If you see what I mean.

decius wrote:Actually, free speech doesn't cover incitement to commit crimes.

Right. And FS refers to our right to not be arrested/forcibly prevented from voicing our opinions, etc by the state. It doesn't decree that whatever we say must be considered big and clever.

What's not right? I was agreeing with you that there was more support for the idea last time it came up. Stop trying to gaslight me you chauvinist pig!!!1! I was trying to point out that there are two different aspects to this- people may agree to personally avoid those types of insults, but still ...

No, there was a lot of support for the idea that it's better to avoid mocking people for involuntary physical traits- there is less support for the idea that it's possible to stop the "insult mining" that way. I'm not sure that's right - IIRC on Justin Griffith's now infamous thread, people like Ju...

My post was a reaction to your remark about skipping over all of the insults and because of that, not even realizing how much of that there is here. That sounded pretty condescending to me. Well that's just what I do - it's not moral, it's just because I don't find them interesting. I do sometimes ...

I took it to mean 'strategy' as well. The naming of the pit is unfortunate, if we were to view this purely as a propaganda war. But if people don't care then /shrug TBH I knew people didn't care after the last time I tried saying this. I actually had a lot more support back then, but it only takes ...

I think Twitter could work as that other place. There are several users who post links to blog posts, or to storified conversations, or just post their opinions about FTB and A+. Given the variety of users on twitter and the ability to follow the ones whose style you like, it could work for the peo...

I don't give a fuck! I know, which is why I don't say this more often. I just usually facepalm to myself, and try to work out why people who seem to hate FTB etc. so much would go to such lengths to help them. I acknowledge you as my moral superior. He's talking about strategy (as he sees it), not ...

bhoytony wrote:There seem to be people here who assume that everybody who is posting on this blog want the exact same outcome as themselves. Sorry, but your goals aren't necessarily the goals of anybody but yourself.

That's a good point. Frustratingly, I can't really argue with that.

The answer to that is to do stuff off the 'pit. If people won't come here to hear what's really going on then you have to take it to them in a way that they will listen to. I know most members already do that. Obviously there are still issues when somebody else is going to gallop in to say "DON'T L...

Let's put this in perspective here. Steffie had to trawl through months of slympit threads to find those pictures. We simply don't post such stuff that often. PZ posted some similar pictures that he found here a couple of months back and I think they are also in Stephies post. The most recent ones ...

bhoytony wrote:I don't care what they think about it, I don't care what the idiots who blindly swollow everything that FTB feed to them think and I don't care what you think. I'm just fucking about, so you carry on facepalming and looking down your nose at us from your position up there.

Again - I know.

It gave me pause too, for a moment. The only way you're not going to get that stuff is if we have moderation against things which are hurtful, crude, or offensive. As soon as you have that, you have to determine what crosses that threshold and who makes that judgement. I don't trust anyone to decid...

bhoytony wrote:I don't give a fuck!

I know, which is why I don't say this more often. I just usually facepalm to myself, and try to work out why people who seem to hate FTB etc. so much would go to such lengths to help them.

Looks like some of you have provided Stephanie Zvan with plenty of ammo to give her an easy job of getting moderates to hate this place. Nice one! The fact that I'd hardly seen any of it just shows how much I skim over that kind of nonsense. Yes, I know they're hypocritical but for God's sake - rise...

The problem I have with this is really one of basic skepticism. Yep, my point was really to say that it's not necessarily that someone doubts the elevator story that they might disagree with 'guys don't do that'. They may just disagree with the moral pronouncement that followed it (i.e. 'guys don't...

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