You is all a bunch of poofs!

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13783

by KiwiInOz » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:11 pm

It's not quite trying to conceptualise infinity, but this demonstrates our general inadequacy to project beyond our own bounded world view.

https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/image/ ... DGKx_knDew

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13782

by KiwiInOz » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:07 pm

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
Hunt wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:09 am
MarcusAu wrote: Anyone got any thoughts on why there is something rather than nothing?

I know that Victor Stenger said that perhaps nothing is unstable - like balancing an egg on the pointed end.
William Blake wrote: If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite.
Which I've also pondered on my early morning walks...anyone have much experience with infinity?
I feel pretty certain the question is unanswerable in a mechanistic sense, given our current knowledge, though ridiculously profound problems like that tend to yield completely to key insights at very unpredictable, almost arbitrary moments in scientific history* Logically, the answer is known and obvious. There is something because you are asking the question, which is the same logical answer to the multiverse question: why do we occupy this universe and not another? The answer is simply that we occupy this universe because this is the one we find ourselves in.

* I give as example the discovery of DNA and the answer to the problem of genetic inheritance and the information basis of life in 1953. There is really no compelling historical reason this key and profound insight should have come at that early date. It was just one of those weird lightning strikes of human insight that happens out of the blue.
Can anyone even conceptually grasp what nothing is? I certainly can't. Following what Stenger said about instability, perhaps the existence of matter and at least semi-fixed physical laws is down to the old tautology of evolution. It is an inevitability that that which is persistent will persist. Beyond that, I don't think it is possible to know what the cosmological equivalent of the primordial soup is. That tautology is something evolution-deniers cannot deal with. Evolution is inevitable.
Our sense making capacity is both amazing and incomplete.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13781

by KiwiInOz » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:06 pm

MarcusAu wrote: Reality does seem to be an incredible and rather unlikely thing.

There may not be enough data to know for sure on the question of the likelihood of the whole thing getting started in the first place. Though contemplating black & white holes and the quantum foam might help.

And to think that some would consider it mundane.
What are the chances of reality being a figment of your imagination?

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13780

by KiwiInOz » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:05 pm

I can honestly say that I was one of the uncool kids who did not have a uniform or fashion other than clothes bought at the local equivalent of Walmart or my school uniform. I wore a pair of denim shorts to my first real date with my girlfriend and another couple, at 16, because I did not own a pair of jeans. The shame that I felt led me to put pressure on my parents to get me some.

I did wear a Swandri and red bands (Aggie wear) in my first year at Uni. But that was about it. Jeans, t shirt, and running shoes have been de rigeur ever since.

I did make sure that my kids never suffered the same fate, and they comfortably have their own fashion sense without being victims.

But I have been wondering whether I am too old at 53 to get a pair of Doc Martins.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13779

by KiwiInOz » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:57 pm

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: snip Adern snip

She has one trait, common to the modern lefty, which I find repugnant and that is a strong tendency to be pathologically compassionate to certain groups and display zero sympathy or compassion for the legitimate grievances of others. It's a very dangerous tendency. Perhaps the manner in which she dealt with the public over the Covid lockdown was better than the norm, I'll give her that. Her policy was a big gamble though. If a vaccine doesn't materialise soon then she will have damaged the NZ economy and the country will have to go through the phases of infection anyway or stay isolated much longer. She may be lucky and find that the virus has already worked it's way asymptomatically through a big chunk of the population anyway, who knows.
I think that you'll find that she is compassionate regardless of group type, and this is one of her strengths. She expressed huge compassion for the Muslim community of Christchurch and NZ after ~ 50 of their members were gunned down, and she expressed huge compassion for the victims of the volcano eruption at White Island. She is supportive of recognition and application of the Treaty of Waitangi but did not get involved in the Ihumatao issue. She has not made any stance on trans issues (to my knowledge) or worn a BLM t shirt.

She has held together a Government coalition of Labour, the Greens, and NZ First. The Greens are more progressive and may be seen as stripping traditional progressive Labour votes (hence are worse enemies than the traditional opposition), and NZ First is a conservative (and reactionary to the Greens) splinter group of the Nationals (the other of the 2 main parties). This has meant that she has not been able to meet all of Labour's election promises which has led to some criticism from some Labour supporters. However there is some chance that Labour may govern in their own right after the next election, despite the voting system being proportional representation.

My parents, who are lifelong National Party voters, love her, and while they are unlikely to vote Labour in the next election, would vote for her in a heartbeat if she was in their electorate. My sister, a life long ACT Party (libertarian splinter group of Labour and National), would also vote for her.

I don't think that she has added any kool aid concentrate to the national water supply.

But you are quite right. She probably displays less concern for the legitimate grievances of coal barons and media moguls, unlike Australia's Prime Minister.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13778

by Matt Cavanaugh » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:55 pm

Anything milsurp would pass fashion muster. My USAF flight jacket in OD with orange liner and zip pockets on the sleeves, accessorized with folding Aviators in a naugahyde pouch and can-opener on the pulltab, remained cool through several trends. Plus it was a fantastic jacket all around. An ill-fitting, scratchy Bundeswehr jacket counted as haute couture in college -- good enough for clubbing.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13777

by Matt Cavanaugh » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:33 pm

Suburban Connecticut Fashion Rules for High Schoolers, circa 1979:
Either Puma or Adidas were de riguer, unless [like me] you could score some mail-order Pony's from Canada. And kept scuff-free and pristine by daily applications of White-Out. Cheap knock-offs, a.k.a., "Bobos", consigned you to eternal fashion purgatory. "Freak Boots" -- clunky suede work boots -- were a viable option, especially if you were a freak.

Painter's pants, preferably Dickies, with as many crazy things as you could think of stuffed into its many pockets, were briefly en vogue -- I pushed the envelope by showing up one day with an actual hammer in the hammer loop. "Dungarees" were always cool, so long as they were Levi's, Wrangler, or Lee and you you never rolled the cuffs; bonus points for fraying where your heel trod on the cuff. [Best achieved via afore-mentioned Freak Boots.]

Summertime, unisex: high-cut satiny shorts with knee-length tube athletic socks with garish stripes. I still get a stiffie whenever any of my female ex-classmates posts on FB an old pic of herself in that kit.

Tops were rugby shirts striped in hideous color combinations, then replaced by two-tone baseball jerseys. When the preppie fad hit, a lot of the girls wore doubled Izods with the collars up. A classmate made three layered Izods her exclusive trademark. In the Fall and early Spring, a jeans jacket over a gray hoodie was practically our BDU.

In my town at least, an old-man's satiny windbreaker with metal snaps, in your high school's colors, with the HS name on the back and your graduation year on the sleeve, was considered the height of fashion despite its ostensible dorkiness.


Flash-forward to the mid-eighties, and I rocked with a 'Born-in-the-USA' rolled bandana on my brow, an Elvis Costello tank top, surplus tiger-stripe camo pants with the anti-leech laces tied over Boris Becker "Dominator" sneaks.


Nowadays, I stick to Tees, wranglers, and cowboy boots, all heavily impregnated with manure dust.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13776

by screwtape » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:17 pm

Wannabe? I was happy to get home with all or most of my teeth in those days. You are right about the 'Arrington and 'Crombie, and as for 'brother creepers' you should give us a fuckin' edit button, you wanker.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13775

by Lsuoma » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:13 am

screwtape wrote: Curious to learn today that the Proud Boys have adopted Fred Perry polo shirts in black with yellow logos. Boih for the reminder of Moseley and for the fact that I remember when the skinheads were transitioning into what were briefly known as suedeheads (before disappearing, only to return in a later generation). What you might refer to to these days as "OG" skinheads wore "grandad" long sleeved undershirts under their braces, or suspenders to you Yanks. Suspenders were a much more interesting item of clothing to us. Basically like a Stanfield's undershirt, but before waffle cloth, just rather itchy wool. By the early seventies, that shirt was replaced with a plaid shirt with a button down collar, often a Harrington jacket, and brown brogues with lots and lots of Blakeys segs hammered into the soles so you made a lot of noise were replacing your Docs. By the mid-seventies, the Fred Perry polo shirt was de rigeur, along with two-tone 'Tonics' - a shimmery iridescent cloth used for pants that dated back to ska fans - instead of Levis, and, plus ça change, brother creeper loafers. Just before the end of the skins, the Harrington was ditched for a nice warm Abercrombie coat.
Me? It was what the fashions were when I was at the comprehensive. To that end, we were all cultural skinheads, but wouldn't have dreamed of beating anyone up beyond each other. It was all talk and Johnny Reggae:

Now you've outed yourself as a wannabe - it was always called a 'Crombie in my circles, And of course it was pronounced 'Arrington, not Harrington. And what are brother creepers?
:whistle:

</dickhead>

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13774

by screwtape » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:45 am

Reality bites. Got a date today. The fun begins the day after Trafalgar Day, and if all goes well I will return home somewhere around the New Year. I'll take an iPad, so may be able to keep an eye on you as long as there isn't a nurse looking over my shoulder.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13773

by MarcusAu » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:17 am

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: ...bahviour...
I think that's defined as the actions of persons or things that we don't approve of.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13772

by MarcusAu » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:14 am

Reality does seem to be an incredible and rather unlikely thing.

There may not be enough data to know for sure on the question of the likelihood of the whole thing getting started in the first place. Though contemplating black & white holes and the quantum foam might help.

And to think that some would consider it mundane.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13771

by Bhurzum » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:43 am

MarcusAu wrote: Which I've also pondered on my early morning walks...anyone have much experience with infinity?
The poor bastard currently married to my ex does.

(I've spoken to him, nice bloke but a bit...worn down?)

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13770

by ThreeFlangedJavis » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:47 am

Hunt wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:27 am
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: Can anyone even conceptually grasp what nothing is? I certainly can't. Following what Stenger said about instability, perhaps the existence of matter and at least semi-fixed physical laws is down to the old tautology of evolution. It is an inevitability that that which is persistent will persist. Beyond that, I don't think it is possible to know what the cosmological equivalent of the primordial soup is. That tautology is something evolution-deniers cannot deal with. Evolution is inevitable.
I think it's human arrogance to think our apes' brains' capacity to "conceptualize" is the ultimate way to metaphysically grasp anything. Just because "conceptualization" almost seems to happen on some kind of ethereal plane of existence, we imbue it with a type of ultimate significance. Catholic intellectuals (which is not at all an oxymoron) even attribute "the soul" with our human ability to conceptualize, separating us from "animals". But once we finally understand the brain and consciousness, conceptualization is going to turn out being just another limited human brain function.
Other than mathematical modeling, it's the only tool we have. It's how our minds work. For us, to understand is to conceptualise. Of course conceptualisation is a limited tool dictated by brain function. It's a given. We have the tools to allow us to navigate our environment and to describe the bahviour of things we cannot conceptualise, nothing more. If you believe you can go beyond then you need to spend few decades with your satguru. I don't believe it'll do any good though.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13769

by ThreeFlangedJavis » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:29 am

Keating wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:50 am
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: The US constitution was designed to put power into the hands of the executive. He is the one ultimately accountable to the populace, but he does not have the power to make himself king.
The power to declare war, such as, I don't know, overthrowing the government of Libya, is something that should be voted on by Congress, not decided at the whim of the executive. Assassinating American citizens without trial is probably also something that Congress should actually hold the executive accountable over. The executive should not have been allowed to govern by executive order as much has been allowed. Something like what was tried to be enforced by the Dear Colleague letter from the Department of Education, should have been done via legislation, not executive fiat. It's been allowed to happen because Congress hasn't enforced their powers.

Of course, I'm not a citizen, but this kind of power accumulating in the executive in the United States, and government agencies in Australia, is where I think a large part of the problem in the West lies. (Most of the rest is the subversive element of wokeism.)
I agree about the power to declare war and assassinate. Dear Colleague is a different matter. Civil services and legislative chambers fall too easily into systemic corruption and bad habits. It needs a directly accountable executive to keep a check on that corruption when it is obvious. Britain ran into trouble over Brexit because parliamentarians decided to "vote their conscience" on an important issue rather than accept that they were voted into office on a party manifesto. The parliament is there to implement the policies of the majority party, not just act as neutral management. A bit more executive power would have saved the country much grief.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13768

by Hunt » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:27 am

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: Can anyone even conceptually grasp what nothing is? I certainly can't. Following what Stenger said about instability, perhaps the existence of matter and at least semi-fixed physical laws is down to the old tautology of evolution. It is an inevitability that that which is persistent will persist. Beyond that, I don't think it is possible to know what the cosmological equivalent of the primordial soup is. That tautology is something evolution-deniers cannot deal with. Evolution is inevitable.
I think it's human arrogance to think our apes' brains' capacity to "conceptualize" is the ultimate way to metaphysically grasp anything. Just because "conceptualization" almost seems to happen on some kind of ethereal plane of existence, we imbue it with a type of ultimate significance. Catholic intellectuals (which is not at all an oxymoron) even attribute "the soul" with our human ability to conceptualize, separating us from "animals". But once we finally understand the brain and consciousness, conceptualization is going to turn out being just another limited human brain function.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13767

by Za-zen » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:17 am

Do anybody else see the spoof of a presidential debate that was on last night/this morning. It was comedy gold. Obvious parody though, they needed to dial the nuts back a bit.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13766

by ThreeFlangedJavis » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:11 am

Service Dog wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:32 pm
"Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe declassified intelligence on Tuesday that suggests Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign had created a plan in July 2016 to frame then-candidate Donald Trump for Russian hacking — at least according to Russian intelligence."
Chairman Graham,
SEP 2 9 2020
In response to your request for Intelligence Community (IC) information related to the
Federal Bureau of Investigation's (FBI) Crossfire Hurricane Investigation, I have declassified the
following:

• In late July 2016, U.S. intelligence agencies obtained insight into Russian intelligence
analysis alleging that U.S. Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton had approved a
campaign plan to stir up a scandal against U.S. Presidential candidate Donald Trump
by tying him to Putin and the Russians' hacking of the Democratic National
Committee. The IC does not know the accuracy of this allegation or the extent to
which the Russian intelligence analysis may reflect exaggeration or fabrication.

• According to his handwritten notes, former Central Intelligence Agency Director
Brennan subsequently briefed President Obama and other senior national security
officials on the intelligence, including the "alleged approval by Hillary Clinton on
July 26, 2016 of a proposal from one of her foreign policy advisors to vilify Donald
Trump by stirring up a scandal claiming interference by Russian security services."

• On 07 September 2016, U.S. intelligence officials forwarded an investigative referral
to FBI Director James Corney and Deputy Assistant Director of Counterintelligence
Peter Strzok regarding "U.S. Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton's approval of a
plan concerning U.S. Presidential candidate Donald Trump and Russian hackers
hampering U.S. electio
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/me ... -FINAL.pdf
John Solomon has claimed that a Clinton aide told him Russiagate was hatched to shift attention from events surrounding this fiasco https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... nistration. Obama assumed that his saintly magnificence would magically transform relations with the world and so he played nice with Putin. Russia took that nice, got their hooks into the US nuclear industry, and the nice proved to be worth nothing when Ukraine went pear-shaped.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13765

by screwtape » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:10 am

Curious to learn today that the Proud Boys have adopted Fred Perry polo shirts in black with yellow logos. Boih for the reminder of Moseley and for the fact that I remember when the skinheads were transitioning into what were briefly known as suedeheads (before disappearing, only to return in a later generation). What you might refer to to these days as "OG" skinheads wore "grandad" long sleeved undershirts under their braces, or suspenders to you Yanks. Suspenders were a much more interesting item of clothing to us. Basically like a Stanfield's undershirt, but before waffle cloth, just rather itchy wool. By the early seventies, that shirt was replaced with a plaid shirt with a button down collar, often a Harrington jacket, and brown brogues with lots and lots of Blakeys segs hammered into the soles so you made a lot of noise were replacing your Docs. By the mid-seventies, the Fred Perry polo shirt was de rigeur, along with two-tone 'Tonics' - a shimmery iridescent cloth used for pants that dated back to ska fans - instead of Levis, and, plus ça change, brother creeper loafers. Just before the end of the skins, the Harrington was ditched for a nice warm Abercrombie coat.
Me? It was what the fashions were when I was at the comprehensive. To that end, we were all cultural skinheads, but wouldn't have dreamed of beating anyone up beyond each other. It was all talk and Johnny Reggae:

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13764

by Driftless » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:55 am

I listened to John McWhorter talking to Josh Szeps on Quillette. I can't find it now, I think it was on Facebook. Anyway, it started with Josh Szeps giving an aboriginal land statement. He went on to say that in Australia it is now something that is done without a second thought. I though it odd for Quillette, since it sounds to me like empty virtue signalling.

Can Australians here comment? Is it now a natural part of every gathering? I haven't noticed Brive's posts starting with one.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13763

by Keating » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:50 am

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: The US constitution was designed to put power into the hands of the executive. He is the one ultimately accountable to the populace, but he does not have the power to make himself king.
The power to declare war, such as, I don't know, overthrowing the government of Libya, is something that should be voted on by Congress, not decided at the whim of the executive. Assassinating American citizens without trial is probably also something that Congress should actually hold the executive accountable over. The executive should not have been allowed to govern by executive order as much has been allowed. Something like what was tried to be enforced by the Dear Colleague letter from the Department of Education, should have been done via legislation, not executive fiat. It's been allowed to happen because Congress hasn't enforced their powers.

Of course, I'm not a citizen, but this kind of power accumulating in the executive in the United States, and government agencies in Australia, is where I think a large part of the problem in the West lies. (Most of the rest is the subversive element of wokeism.)

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13762

by ThreeFlangedJavis » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:46 am

Hunt wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:09 am
MarcusAu wrote: Anyone got any thoughts on why there is something rather than nothing?

I know that Victor Stenger said that perhaps nothing is unstable - like balancing an egg on the pointed end.
William Blake wrote: If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite.
Which I've also pondered on my early morning walks...anyone have much experience with infinity?
I feel pretty certain the question is unanswerable in a mechanistic sense, given our current knowledge, though ridiculously profound problems like that tend to yield completely to key insights at very unpredictable, almost arbitrary moments in scientific history* Logically, the answer is known and obvious. There is something because you are asking the question, which is the same logical answer to the multiverse question: why do we occupy this universe and not another? The answer is simply that we occupy this universe because this is the one we find ourselves in.

* I give as example the discovery of DNA and the answer to the problem of genetic inheritance and the information basis of life in 1953. There is really no compelling historical reason this key and profound insight should have come at that early date. It was just one of those weird lightning strikes of human insight that happens out of the blue.
Can anyone even conceptually grasp what nothing is? I certainly can't. Following what Stenger said about instability, perhaps the existence of matter and at least semi-fixed physical laws is down to the old tautology of evolution. It is an inevitability that that which is persistent will persist. Beyond that, I don't think it is possible to know what the cosmological equivalent of the primordial soup is. That tautology is something evolution-deniers cannot deal with. Evolution is inevitable.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13761

by screwtape » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:37 am

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
She has one trait, common to the modern lefty, which I find repugnant and that is a strong tendency to be pathologically compassionate to certain groups and display zero sympathy or compassion for the legitimate grievances of others.
That's the core error made by identitarians, which is to value some people more than others, and do so on nothing other than immutable characteristics. It's a bizarre thing to do when reduced to that.

On the other hand, I'm all in favour of an experiment where NZ is isolated from the world and we see the amazing health benefits of a diet of lamb and keas.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13760

by ThreeFlangedJavis » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:07 am

KiwiInOz wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:57 pm
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:39 am
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:26 pm
Has anyone tried turning the USA off for 30 secs and then turning it back on?
Have you guys tried turning Ardern off altogether and putting her back in the box?
Why would we want to do that?
You probably don't, but I'd consider it a personal favour.
Show me on this doll where Jacinda touched your humanity.
She has one trait, common to the modern lefty, which I find repugnant and that is a strong tendency to be pathologically compassionate to certain groups and display zero sympathy or compassion for the legitimate grievances of others. It's a very dangerous tendency. Perhaps the manner in which she dealt with the public over the Covid lockdown was better than the norm, I'll give her that. Her policy was a big gamble though. If a vaccine doesn't materialise soon then she will have damaged the NZ economy and the country will have to go through the phases of infection anyway or stay isolated much longer. She may be lucky and find that the virus has already worked it's way asymptomatically through a big chunk of the population anyway, who knows.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13759

by ThreeFlangedJavis » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:48 am

Keating wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:01 pm
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: Be fair! It is difficult to do anything when the civil service is undermining you and the opposition's only concern is stopping you from governing.
That's kinda my point. Let Trump fail on his own merits, and I'd have no concerns. If he's as bad as he's made out to be, that would be the outcome. Heck, it might even have led to some really good things for the US, like Congress taking back a lot of the powers its delegated to the executive. (A similar argument could be made for the Supreme Court). The weaponising the intelligence services against a political opponent is more of the sort of norm busting that I'd care about, if I were a citizen, then shitposting on Twitter at 4 in the morning. Or some bureaucrat thinking that their idea of what policy should be is more important than the actual elected official who holds the power to set the policy. I'd have just liked a bit more swamp draining - all those government departments should have been purged. (Given the number of open communists I know work for the Australian public service, I have a similar desire to see that done here.) An eleven hour executive order isn't good enough.


The US constitution was designed to put power into the hands of the executive. He is the one ultimately accountable to the populace, but he does not have the power to make himself king. People scoff at the idea of an armed populace keeping their rulers in check, but I suspect that all of those guns make tyranny a far less tempting option than it would otherwise be. It makes sense in the American context. I won't offer an opinion about private gun ownership in other systems. Trump has to tread carefully. If he had just replaced all of the backstabbers his critics would have had a field day. Just look at the accusations leveled at him for dumping Comey! Flynn was aware of the issues with the intelligence services and was well known to be in favour of a cleanup. That is very probably why he was taken out, along with the fact that he would have been wise to their machinations against Trump.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13758

by Hunt » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:09 am

MarcusAu wrote: Anyone got any thoughts on why there is something rather than nothing?

I know that Victor Stenger said that perhaps nothing is unstable - like balancing an egg on the pointed end.
William Blake wrote: If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite.
Which I've also pondered on my early morning walks...anyone have much experience with infinity?
I feel pretty certain the question is unanswerable in a mechanistic sense, given our current knowledge, though ridiculously profound problems like that tend to yield completely to key insights at very unpredictable, almost arbitrary moments in scientific history* Logically, the answer is known and obvious. There is something because you are asking the question, which is the same logical answer to the multiverse question: why do we occupy this universe and not another? The answer is simply that we occupy this universe because this is the one we find ourselves in.

* I give as example the discovery of DNA and the answer to the problem of genetic inheritance and the information basis of life in 1953. There is really no compelling historical reason this key and profound insight should have come at that early date. It was just one of those weird lightning strikes of human insight that happens out of the blue.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13757

by MarcusAu » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:40 am

Anyone got any thoughts on why there is something rather than nothing?

I know that Victor Stenger said that perhaps nothing is unstable - like balancing an egg on the pointed end.
William Blake wrote: If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite.
Which I've also pondered on my early morning walks...anyone have much experience with infinity?

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13756

by Service Dog » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:21 pm

Lsuoma wrote: Just tried to watch the debate. Made me want to kill everyone.

On the bright side, TIffany Trump never looked better.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13755

by Brive1987 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:04 pm

KiwiInOz wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Ardern? Another overly woke young socialist.

Probably she’s fit for her times.
Face it Boomer, you're a grumpy old has been who shouts at clouds.
You get to a point when you’ve seen all the bullshit. And more is simply ... more.

But clouds? I can never get enough of them.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13754

by KiwiInOz » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:24 pm

Brive1987 wrote: Ardern? Another overly woke young socialist.

Probably she’s fit for her times.
Face it Boomer, you're a grumpy old has been who shouts at clouds.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13753

by dog puke » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:16 pm

Lsuoma wrote: Just tried to watch the debate. Made me want to kill everyone.
Yep... it's real projectile vomit territory.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13752

by Brive1987 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:09 pm

Ardern? Another overly woke young socialist.

Probably she’s fit for her times.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13751

by KiwiInOz » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:06 pm

Keating wrote: And people think mass shootings in the US are totally inexplicable.
So Trump was not trying to stop mail in ballots, rather he was trying to stop people going postal.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13750

by Keating » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:02 pm

And people think mass shootings in the US are totally inexplicable.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13749

by Lsuoma » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:29 pm

Just tried to watch the debate. Made me want to kill everyone.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13748

by Service Dog » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:32 pm

"Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe declassified intelligence on Tuesday that suggests Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign had created a plan in July 2016 to frame then-candidate Donald Trump for Russian hacking — at least according to Russian intelligence."
Chairman Graham,
SEP 2 9 2020
In response to your request for Intelligence Community (IC) information related to the
Federal Bureau of Investigation's (FBI) Crossfire Hurricane Investigation, I have declassified the
following:

• In late July 2016, U.S. intelligence agencies obtained insight into Russian intelligence
analysis alleging that U.S. Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton had approved a
campaign plan to stir up a scandal against U.S. Presidential candidate Donald Trump
by tying him to Putin and the Russians' hacking of the Democratic National
Committee. The IC does not know the accuracy of this allegation or the extent to
which the Russian intelligence analysis may reflect exaggeration or fabrication.

• According to his handwritten notes, former Central Intelligence Agency Director
Brennan subsequently briefed President Obama and other senior national security
officials on the intelligence, including the "alleged approval by Hillary Clinton on
July 26, 2016 of a proposal from one of her foreign policy advisors to vilify Donald
Trump by stirring up a scandal claiming interference by Russian security services."

• On 07 September 2016, U.S. intelligence officials forwarded an investigative referral
to FBI Director James Corney and Deputy Assistant Director of Counterintelligence
Peter Strzok regarding "U.S. Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton's approval of a
plan concerning U.S. Presidential candidate Donald Trump and Russian hackers
hampering U.S. electio
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/me ... -FINAL.pdf

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13747

by Keating » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:57 pm

I generally don't like any politicians - for the last two Federal elections here, I've cast informal ballots because there's no good pick between Labor, Greens or Liberals, and there's no chance my vote would matter (which is why I have still voted formally in the Senate - it matters there). For the ACT election in progress, my hatred for Andrew Barr may mean I actually vote for the Liberal Party, but it will be after I exhaust all the more tolerable minor parties (and many of the minor parties are worse than the Greens). I'm not particularly plugged in to New Zealand politics, just like I couldn't tell you what's happening in the Tasmanian legislator, so my impressions are based on the few odd stories I'd read over the last few years, rather than exhaustive study.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13746

by KiwiInOz » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:16 pm

Keating wrote: I'm not a huge fan of Ardern. Even prior to the lockdown, I found her too authoritarian.
I'm also predisposed to automatically dislike anyone the media tries to tell me is brilliant because of their identity, in this case a pussy, grabbed or otherwise.
It seems to be a matter of perspective, because I don't see her as authoritarian. What criteria do you apply, and how do other politicians measure up?

The media latched onto her at first because she was an attractive and compelling breath of fresh air compared to the trad blue suit brigade. She showed real empathy and humanity for people doing it tough (including being massacred) and it appears that some would rather she rubbed salt into wounds.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13745

by Fegg » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:04 pm

KiwiInOz wrote: What I found interesting in all of that is that he was saying that women will let you do anything, even grab them by the pussy, if you are rich and powerful enough. People with an axe to grind fixated on "Trump grabs women by the pussy". They didn't address the truth claim in his statement.
It is an overstatement. But sexual boundary crossing by high status men is as common as it is precisely because it very often works and it very rarely backfires badly. I can understand some of the reasons against victim blaming in individual cases, but at the population level it makes sense to say that if more than 1% of women made a big stink about the behaviour at the time then the behaviour would be seriously disincentivized.

Complaining years later has much less disincentive effect.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13744

by Keating » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:01 pm

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: Be fair! It is difficult to do anything when the civil service is undermining you and the opposition's only concern is stopping you from governing.
That's kinda my point. Let Trump fail on his own merits, and I'd have no concerns. If he's as bad as he's made out to be, that would be the outcome. Heck, it might even have led to some really good things for the US, like Congress taking back a lot of the powers its delegated to the executive. (A similar argument could be made for the Supreme Court). The weaponising the intelligence services against a political opponent is more of the sort of norm busting that I'd care about, if I were a citizen, then shitposting on Twitter at 4 in the morning. Or some bureaucrat thinking that their idea of what policy should be is more important than the actual elected official who holds the power to set the policy. I'd have just liked a bit more swamp draining - all those government departments should have been purged. (Given the number of open communists I know work for the Australian public service, I have a similar desire to see that done here.) An eleven hour executive order isn't good enough.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13743

by Keating » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:49 pm

I'm not a huge fan of Ardern. Even prior to the lockdown, I found her too authoritarian.
I'm also predisposed to automatically dislike anyone the media tries to tell me is brilliant because of their identity, in this case a pussy, grabbed or otherwise.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13742

by KiwiInOz » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:57 pm

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:39 am
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:26 pm
Has anyone tried turning the USA off for 30 secs and then turning it back on?
Have you guys tried turning Ardern off altogether and putting her back in the box?
Why would we want to do that?
You probably don't, but I'd consider it a personal favour.
Show me on this doll where Jacinda touched your humanity.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13741

by KiwiInOz » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:56 pm

fuzzy wrote: It seems especially disingenuous for a slimepitter to pretend that a joking like " grab em by the pussy" spoken in jest to an ostensible friend in a locker room, is some kind of big deal.
What I found interesting in all of that is that he was saying that women will let you do anything, even grab them by the pussy, if you are rich and powerful enough. People with an axe to grind fixated on "Trump grabs women by the pussy". They didn't address the truth claim in his statement.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13740

by Matt Cavanaugh » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:34 am

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:39 am
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:26 pm
Has anyone tried turning the USA off for 30 secs and then turning it back on?
Have you guys tried turning Ardern off altogether and putting her back in the box?
Why would we want to do that?
You probably don't, but I'd consider it a personal favour.
You're welcome.
Arden_box.jpg
(33.71 KiB) Downloaded 41 times

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13739

by ThreeFlangedJavis » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:39 am

Hunt wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:43 am
Service Dog wrote: I think this tax return thing will be like that. Trump's tax returns are an even-older story than Russia. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this is the silver bullet that gets him. I haven't looked past the headlines yet.
There's no way this or any other integrity-related theme will bring him down in the eyes of his supporters. Pussy grabbing was a momentary speed bump; do you think tax avoidance, legal or illegal, will have any impact? His supporters already hate taxes, particularly federal taxes. It may boost the opposition enough to oust him, I don't know.

It's just the same old same old. I recall going to a left wing political rally and being heckled by right wing homeless persons. These were people who would never be served by the system, never achieve the American capitalist dream and who probably would never realize that the very system they were holding out for was gradually killing them. Fantasy is more powerful than reality. It's why people worship kings and queens and don't dismember and eat them. In general, of course. If the charade breaks down, that's when heads roll and Mussolini gets hung like a pork carcass.
How is this integrity related? Do you think all of the other real estate developers out there are volunteering to overpay? The tax regime is set up to encourage property development and is an issue for legislation. Perhaps his supporters care about what he actually does in office rather than what others think of his manner or "integrity". Should they vote for someone who tells them they are worthy of work and brings back jobs or someone who tells them their jobs will never come back and insults them? Would you vote Biden? If so, you seem willing to ignore the stench of corruption that's followed him and his family throughout his career, his obvious unfitness for office and his habit of lying. How about the collusion to undermine a democratically elected president? If you do support Biden then it's because you think he is going to do things you want to happen despite his baggage. Don't piss on the great unwashed for doing the same. The Democrat Party keeps making the same mistake,not understanding why people support Trump and reject their policies. It seems to be dawning on Americans that the Democrats treat minorities like their pets, down at heel and fed scare stories to keep them voting left. Their "silver bullets" don't work, not least because Trump isn't a werewolf. Speaking of integrity, the bigger story here should be the illegal violation of privacy, which is a serious offence.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13738

by ThreeFlangedJavis » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:18 am

KiwiInOz wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:39 am
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:26 pm
Has anyone tried turning the USA off for 30 secs and then turning it back on?
Have you guys tried turning Ardern off altogether and putting her back in the box?
Why would we want to do that?
You probably don't, but I'd consider it a personal favour.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13737

by Matt Cavanaugh » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:12 am

Hunt wrote: Sure, just laugh at the kid.

One of the dumbest movies, ever, IMO.

I wrote a script for a remake, nevertheless. My version would only run about fifteen minutes, but ends with a big bang.
Express XLR_shells.png
(294.49 KiB) Downloaded 47 times

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13736

by ThreeFlangedJavis » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:16 am

Keating wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:57 pm
I don't think Trump deserves a second term, because he's lazy and hasn't actually done very much. Indeed, the worst thing about Trump is how normal a president he is.

The democrats, however, can never be allowed power in their current state. Holy crap they are terrifying.


Be fair! It is difficult to do anything when the civil service is undermining you and the opposition's only concern is stopping you from governing. That said, he has done quite a bit. He's cut back some of the tangle of statutes his predecessors grew, he's brought blue collar jobs back to the country and focused attention on China, he lowered unemployment quite a lot, brokered some peace deals, put a brake on the military adventurism, built some border wall and not least, burst some of Pelosi's blood vessels. I'm sure he's done quite a bit else but very few in the media will broadcast any of his achievements. For a "normal" president he seems to have managed to get an awful lot of the swamp monkeys after him. He would undoubtedly have cleaned up a lot more of the corruption and overreach of the intelligence/security establishment but the bastards took out the man who was going to do it before he could get going.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13735

by Hunt » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:32 am

fuzzy wrote: It seems especially disingenuous for a slimepitter to pretend that a joking like " grab em by the pussy" spoken in jest to an ostensible friend in a locker room, is some kind of big deal.
Aren't you forgetting something? Like his "base", which includes evangelicals.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13734

by fuzzy » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:53 am

It seems especially disingenuous for a slimepitter to pretend that a joking like " grab em by the pussy" spoken in jest to an ostensible friend in a locker room, is some kind of big deal.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13733

by fuzzy » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:52 am

It seems especially disingenuous for a slimepitter to pretend that a joking like " grab em by the pussy" spoken in jest to an ostensible friend in a locker room, is some kind of big deal.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13732

by Hunt » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:47 am

Can't we at least get the input box to automatically scroll to the bottom? It's not like I'm asking for an edit button.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13731

by Hunt » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:45 am

Shit, someone stop me.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13730

by Hunt » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:44 am

KiwiInOz wrote:
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:26 pm
Has anyone tried turning the USA off for 30 secs and then turning it back on?
Hmm, this give me an idea. I wonder if Amazon would still take back Trump.
Have you guys tried turning Ardern off altogether and putting her back in the box?
Why would we want to do that?

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13729

by Hunt » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:43 am

Service Dog wrote: I think this tax return thing will be like that. Trump's tax returns are an even-older story than Russia. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this is the silver bullet that gets him. I haven't looked past the headlines yet.
There's no way this or any other integrity-related theme will bring him down in the eyes of his supporters. Pussy grabbing was a momentary speed bump; do you think tax avoidance, legal or illegal, will have any impact? His supporters already hate taxes, particularly federal taxes. It may boost the opposition enough to oust him, I don't know.

It's just the same old same old. I recall going to a left wing political rally and being heckled by right wing homeless persons. These were people who would never be served by the system, never achieve the American capitalist dream and who probably would never realize that the very system they were holding out for was gradually killing them. Fantasy is more powerful than reality. It's why people worship kings and queens and don't dismember and eat them. In general, of course. If the charade breaks down, that's when heads roll and Mussolini gets hung like a pork carcass.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13728

by KiwiInOz » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:39 am

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:26 pm
Has anyone tried turning the USA off for 30 secs and then turning it back on?
Have you guys tried turning Ardern off altogether and putting her back in the box?
Why would we want to do that?

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13727

by Hunt » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:33 am

Fucked that one up. first paragraph:

Why doesn't he just release his records freely so we don't have to rely on the NYT. More importantly, why do we have to belatedly find out he has massive debt obligations that might compromise the integrity of his office?

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13726

by Hunt » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:32 am

Service Dog wrote:
screwtape wrote: if he really only paid $750 in taxes for two of the last ten years, his reasons for staying in power are more to do with financial gain and staving off prosecution than because he is a power-hungry would-be dictator.
Why doesn't he just release his records freely so we don't have to rely on the NYT. More importantly, why do we have to belatedly find out he has massive debt obligations that might compromise the integrity of his office?

I think you were lied-to about Trump's taxes. I think you should direct your contempt-- at those who lied to you.

According to Breitbart-- Trump paid $1 Million in taxes in 2016, and $4.2 Million in 2017. He paid that money up-front. He doesn't get it back, except it's considered a pre-payment against future years' taxes.

The tax system allows Trump to subtract deductions from his tax bill. For example the purchase-price of residential real estate is deduct-able. But that deduction must be spread over 27.5 years... not taken all in one year.

For example: if Trump bought a house for $27,479,375-- (just under 27 Million bucks)... then Trump could subtract not-quite-a-million dollars from his taxes every year... for 27.5 years... and just owe $750 per year. (if his annual pre-deduction tax bill was a million bucks. which it was, in 2016.)

If you-- or the NY Times-- think the US tax system is a Scandal-- and it should operate differently-- fine, shout it from the rooftops.

But if you think Trump paying his taxes in the ordinary, mandated way-- is newsworthy, a bombshell, disqualifying Trump from his position of power-- then you're deluded. The New York Times is trying to influence an election by exploiting public ignorance of tax codes. It's a dirty trick. Only tax accountants are paid to learn the ins-and-outs of tax law. The rest of us rely on the fucking New York Times to give us a truthful summary.

Much more detail about Trump's taxes, here:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2020/ ... -nonsense/

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13725

by Hunt » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:18 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Sure, just laugh at the kid.

Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#13724

by ThreeFlangedJavis » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:52 am

KiwiInOz wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:26 pm
Has anyone tried turning the USA off for 30 secs and then turning it back on?
Have you guys tried turning Ardern off altogether and putting her back in the box?

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