National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

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Expand view Topic review: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#228

by free thoughtpolice » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:06 pm

Faith isn't looking too alt-lite here. I'm sure none of this stuff is made up. :lol:

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#227

by Lsuoma » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:01 pm

Brive1987 wrote: The Aboriginals being welcomed into an alien culture and society was a virtue flare which did absolutely nothing for their underlying problems.

Give them their patch of bush and they rightly ignore the rich Kangaroo hunting on offer and retire to the townships.
Give them housing and it’s destroyed.
Give them scholarships and a means to integrate and you are accused of replacing the Dreamtime with white mans culture.
Give them money and it translates to drink and drugs.
Give them vouchers and you destroy their self respect with paternalism.
Remove their children from the cycle of abuse and it’s a stolen generation.
Set up Aboriginal councils etc and they devolve to corruption, communism and never ending financial shakedowns.
All documented decades ago:

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#226

by CaptainFluffyBunny » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:36 pm

Funny, I seem to recall Hungary is falling away from democracy and becoming quite corrupt, with power structures realigned to keep the ruling party in perpetual power. I suppose it's a small price to pay, huh?

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#225

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:32 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: You will love Section 127 of the constitution:
127. In reckoning the numbers of the people of the Commonwealth, or of a State or other part of the Commonwealth, aboriginal natives shall not be counted."
Ok this got repelled in 1967

Between prayers and apartheid, it was only one word off Mein Kampf.
I guess the unpersonning of Aboriginals is the kind of good old days of Australia you would like to go back to. Having a superstitious ritual and compelling politicians to recite magic words isn't primitive and stupid enough for your tastes you need to go all the way?
Nah. It was an amusing aside for Kirb to ponder as he swung his 1901 copy of the constitution like a liberal cudgel.

The Aboriginals being welcomed into an alien culture and society was a virtue flare which did absolutely nothing for their underlying problems.

Give them their patch of bush and they rightly ignore the rich Kangaroo hunting on offer and retire to the townships.
Give them housing and it’s destroyed.
Give them scholarships and a means to integrate and you are accused of replacing the Dreamtime with white mans culture.
Give them money and it translates to drink and drugs.
Give them vouchers and you destroy their self respect with paternalism.
Remove their children from the cycle of abuse and it’s a stolen generation.
Set up Aboriginal councils etc and they devolve to corruption, communism and never ending financial shakedowns.

But hey. Give them the vote and “bobs your uncle”. 1966. 1967. 2019. Not much has changed except for more hollow liberal gestures - apologies and “invasion day” rallies. Progress indeed.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#224

by free thoughtpolice » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:10 am

Brive1987 wrote: You will love Section 127 of the constitution:
127. In reckoning the numbers of the people of the Commonwealth, or of a State or other part of the Commonwealth, aboriginal natives shall not be counted."
Ok this got repelled in 1967

Between prayers and apartheid, it was only one word off Mein Kampf.
I guess the unpersonning of Aboriginals is the kind of good old days of Australia you would like to go back to. Having a superstitious ritual and compelling politicians to recite magic words isn't primitive and stupid enough for your tastes you need to go all the way?

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#223

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:45 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:15 am
You will love Section 127 of the constitution:
127. In reckoning the numbers of the people of the Commonwealth, or of a State or other part of the Commonwealth, aboriginal natives shall not be counted."
Ok this got repelled in 1967

Between prayers and apartheid, it was only one word off Mein Kampf.
Always read the small print, I guess.

I'm not the one claiming that Australian Old Times were perfect and we should go back to before the Multicultural Nightmare. :bjarte:

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#222

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:43 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:19 am
Here we’ve got dingy street lights, dodgy refurbishments, an opposition spokesman claiming the brainless people’s vote was manipulated and anti Soros being equivalent to a war on disabled kids.

The only sense in the whole show was a govt spokesman explaining the solution to illegal immigration was to stop it at the border and positive intervention at the source of the problem.

Now I’m sure Orbán is the next literal Hitler. I’m sure Hungary, just like any country east of Austria, is unable to hide its corruption as effectively as, say, Merkle (with her packs of nazis hunting migrants through the village streets). I’m positive you’d be happy for Fidesz’s two thirds majority to be democracy overturned.

But you’ll understand if I don’t believe much of anything I hear from liberal mouth pieces.
You left out the issues with an independent press and the threats to journalistic investigations into corruption. Also the part about how power is concentrating within the hands of a few, connected people, while independent sectors of a democratic society are controlled more and more by a specific parties and cronies. Nothing really important in your view, probably, as long as the migrants are kept out.
Sounds like a typical western ‘democracy’. Just more overt. But you’re right. Open the borders. Overturn the election. Make magyar a dirty word amongst a new minority majority. And drive the dirty Catholics into dark recesses.
For a guy who loves to accuse others of straw manning, you're pretty eager to paint your critics in the worst possible light, regardless of what they actually say (or write).

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#221

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:35 am

But if you want to be all sticky over the EU ....
The European Court of Justice (ECJ), supreme court for the European Union (EU), has ruled that would-be migrants must seek asylum in the first country they reach.

CNN, one of the many media outlets reporting on the ruling, says this: "The European Union's top court has ruled that refugees must continue to seek asylum in the first European country they reach, even in exceptional circumstances like the migrant crisis of 2015
Which means Hungary only need fear a horde of Ukrainian braid-babies.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#220

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:28 am

The European Court of Human Rights in the case M.S.S. v Belgium and Greece, judged on 21 January 2011 that both the Greek and the Belgian governments violated the European Convention on Human Rights by applying the EU's own law on asylum seekers and were given fines of €6,000 and €30,000, respectively. Recently, voices have been heard calling for the imposition of tougher sanctions, should similar cases of trying to follow EU asylum laws occur in the future.
Yeah. I wouldn’t be too concerned with a ‘work to rule’ mentality. :lol: :lol:

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#219

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:23 am

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#218

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:15 am

You will love Section 127 of the constitution:
127. In reckoning the numbers of the people of the Commonwealth, or of a State or other part of the Commonwealth, aboriginal natives shall not be counted."
Ok this got repelled in 1967

Between prayers and apartheid, it was only one word off Mein Kampf.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#217

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:09 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:32 am
Hungary is conducting ethnic cleansing? I’m shocked.

I’ve got no idea what ‘cultural flexibility’ exists in Hungary. I visited in 1987 and was left in no doubt I wasn’t in Sydney anymore.

But there are laws in Hungary against aiding “refugees and asylum seekers” ? I assume you meant “illegal immigrants”. Which makes the morality less clear cut. I think need to consider “aiding and abetting”.
Appealing to the right of asylu doesn't make one an illegal immigrant (who is someone who acts beyond the laws, national and international).

Like Australia (but unlike the US) Hungary has signed both the 1951 UN Convention and the 1967 Protocol on refugees, which establish that:
The contracting states shall not
discriminate against refugees (Article 3)
take exceptional measures against a refugee solely on account of his or her nationality (Article 8)
expect refugees to pay taxes and fiscal charges that are different to those of nationals (Article 29)
impose penalties on refugees who entered illegally in search of asylum if they present themselves without delay (Article 31), which is commonly interpreted to mean that their unlawful entry and presence ought not to be prosecuted at all[18]
expel refugees (Article 32)
forcibly return or "refoul" refugees to the country they've fled from (Article 33). It is widely accepted that the prohibition of forcible return is part of customary international law. This means that even States that are not party to the 1951 Refugee Convention must respect the principle of non-refoulement.[17] Therefore, States are obligated under the Convention and under customary international law to respect the principle of non-refoulement. If and when this principle is threatened, UNHCR can respond by intervening with relevant authorities, and if it deems necessary, will inform the public.[17]
Article 31 establishes that the countries which signed the 1951 convention cannot prosecute refugees in search of asylum if they present without delay. But by criminalizing the act of providing legal aid and information to asylum seekers, Hungary is making sure that the asylum seekers don't have the necessary information to present their demand of asylum without delay. Quite the catch-22.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#216

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:59 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: I know all about Australia’s constitution, no need to Swiss-splain. The religious laws were to stop re-runs of Protestant vs Catholic BS. Think Bloody Mary more than Hemant Mehta.

So you can let your secular-liberal erection subside. :cdc:

Our modified Westminster system has been a remarkable success story derived from, and culturally attuned to the Anglo milieu.

Your literary review of Wikipedia failed to pick up the complexity of high you speak.
Whenever Parliament sits, the House of Representatives begins with two prayers. For the first, Speaker Tony Smith says: "Almighty God, we humbly beseech thee to vouchsafe thy blessing upon this Parliament. Direct and prosper our deliberations to the advancement of thy glory, and the true welfare of the people of Australia."

Smith then recites the Protestant version of the Lord's Prayer: "Our Father, who​ art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen."

These prayers symbolise Australia's Christian and, more particularly, Protestant heritage. They show how certain religious values are embedded into our institutions and civic life. Other examples include the opening words to Australia's Constitution, which invoke the blessing of "Almighty God", and the fact that Australia's head of state, the British monarch, is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
But don’t despair. We have our share of libtards determined to pull us into a fractured globalised world of equivalency.
So as an atheist it doesn't bother you that your representatives are expected to make a proclamation of religious faith to operate institutions that are supposed to represent all Australians regardless of their faith?
As a cultural Christian, a social conservative and a proud Aussie I’d expect nothing less. FIFO.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#215

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:57 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:19 am
Here we’ve got dingy street lights, dodgy refurbishments, an opposition spokesman claiming the brainless people’s vote was manipulated and anti Soros being equivalent to a war on disabled kids.

The only sense in the whole show was a govt spokesman explaining the solution to illegal immigration was to stop it at the border and positive intervention at the source of the problem.

Now I’m sure Orbán is the next literal Hitler. I’m sure Hungary, just like any country east of Austria, is unable to hide its corruption as effectively as, say, Merkle (with her packs of nazis hunting migrants through the village streets). I’m positive you’d be happy for Fidesz’s two thirds majority to be democracy overturned.

But you’ll understand if I don’t believe much of anything I hear from liberal mouth pieces.
You left out the issues with an independent press and the threats to journalistic investigations into corruption. Also the part about how power is concentrating within the hands of a few, connected people, while independent sectors of a democratic society are controlled more and more by a specific parties and cronies. Nothing really important in your view, probably, as long as the migrants are kept out.
Sounds like a typical western ‘democracy’. Just more overt. But you’re right. Open the borders. Overturn the election. Make magyar a dirty word amongst a new minority majority. And drive the dirty Catholics into dark recesses.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#214

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:53 am

Brive1987 wrote: I know all about Australia’s constitution, no need to Swiss-splain. The religious laws were to stop re-runs of Protestant vs Catholic BS. Think Bloody Mary more than Hemant Mehta.

So you can let your secular-liberal erection subside. :cdc:

Our modified Westminster system has been a remarkable success story derived from, and culturally attuned to the Anglo milieu.

Your literary review of Wikipedia failed to pick up the complexity of high you speak.
Whenever Parliament sits, the House of Representatives begins with two prayers. For the first, Speaker Tony Smith says: "Almighty God, we humbly beseech thee to vouchsafe thy blessing upon this Parliament. Direct and prosper our deliberations to the advancement of thy glory, and the true welfare of the people of Australia."

Smith then recites the Protestant version of the Lord's Prayer: "Our Father, who​ art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen."

These prayers symbolise Australia's Christian and, more particularly, Protestant heritage. They show how certain religious values are embedded into our institutions and civic life. Other examples include the opening words to Australia's Constitution, which invoke the blessing of "Almighty God", and the fact that Australia's head of state, the British monarch, is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
But don’t despair. We have our share of libtards determined to pull us into a fractured globalised world of equivalency.
So as an atheist it doesn't bother you that your representatives are expected to make a proclamation of religious faith to operate institutions that are supposed to represent all Australians regardless of their faith?

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#213

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:49 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:19 am
Here we’ve got dingy street lights, dodgy refurbishments, an opposition spokesman claiming the brainless people’s vote was manipulated and anti Soros being equivalent to a war on disabled kids.

The only sense in the whole show was a govt spokesman explaining the solution to illegal immigration was to stop it at the border and positive intervention at the source of the problem.

Now I’m sure Orbán is the next literal Hitler. I’m sure Hungary, just like any country east of Austria, is unable to hide its corruption as effectively as, say, Merkle (with her packs of nazis hunting migrants through the village streets). I’m positive you’d be happy for Fidesz’s two thirds majority to be democracy overturned.

But you’ll understand if I don’t believe much of anything I hear from liberal mouth pieces.
You left out the issues with an independent press and the threats to journalistic investigations into corruption. Also the part about how power is concentrating within the hands of a few, connected people, while independent sectors of a democratic society are controlled more and more by a specific parties and cronies. Nothing really important in your view, probably, as long as the migrants are kept out.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#212

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:45 am

I know all about Australia’s constitution, no need to Swiss-splain. The religious laws were to stop re-runs of Protestant vs Catholic BS. Think Bloody Mary more than Hemant Mehta.

So you can let your secular-liberal erection subside. :cdc:

Our modified Westminster system has been a remarkable success story derived from, and culturally attuned to the Anglo milieu.

Your literary review of Wikipedia failed to pick up the complexity of high you speak.
Whenever Parliament sits, the House of Representatives begins with two prayers. For the first, Speaker Tony Smith says: "Almighty God, we humbly beseech thee to vouchsafe thy blessing upon this Parliament. Direct and prosper our deliberations to the advancement of thy glory, and the true welfare of the people of Australia."

Smith then recites the Protestant version of the Lord's Prayer: "Our Father, who​ art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen."

These prayers symbolise Australia's Christian and, more particularly, Protestant heritage. They show how certain religious values are embedded into our institutions and civic life. Other examples include the opening words to Australia's Constitution, which invoke the blessing of "Almighty God", and the fact that Australia's head of state, the British monarch, is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
But don’t despair. We have our share of libtards determined to pull us into a fractured globalised world of equivalency.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#211

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:32 am

Hungary is conducting ethnic cleansing? I’m shocked.

I’ve got no idea what ‘cultural flexibility’ exists in Hungary. I visited in 1987 and was left in no doubt I wasn’t in Sydney anymore.

But there are laws in Hungary against aiding “refugees and asylum seekers” ? I assume you meant “illegal immigrants”. Which makes the morality less clear cut. I think need to consider “aiding and abetting”.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#210

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:27 am

By the way, Wikipedia says this on the Constitution of Australia:
. The Constitution was approved in a series of referendums held over 1898–1900 by the people of the Australian colonies, and the approved draft was enacted as a section of the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 (Imp),[1] an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

The Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 (Imp) became law on 9 July 1900, and entered into force on 1 January 1901. Even though the Constitution was originally given legal force by an Act of the United Kingdom parliament, the Australia Act 1986 removed the power of the United Kingdom parliament to change the Constitution as in force in Australia, and the Constitution can now only be changed in accordance with the prescribed referendum procedures in Section 128.
So the constitution has been in place since the early 1900s.
The existence of three separate chapters dealing with the three branches of government implies a separation of powers, similar in principle to that of the United States but unusual for a government within the Westminster system.[15] Thus, for example, the legislature cannot purport to predetermine the legal outcome, or to change the direction or outcome, of a court case.
Separation of powers is codified within the Australian constitution.
Section 116 establishes what is often called "freedom of religion", by forbidding the Commonwealth from making any law for the establishment of a religion, imposing any religious observance, or prohibiting the exercise of a religion, or religious discrimination for public office.
Separation of church and state is also codified within the Australian constitution.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#209

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:19 am

Macron or Viktor Orbán. That’s all it comes down to eh?



Then there is the counterview.



Here we’ve got dingy street lights, dodgy refurbishments, an opposition spokesman claiming the brainless people’s vote was manipulated and anti Soros being equivalent to a war on disabled kids.

The only sense in the whole show was a govt spokesman explaining the solution to illegal immigration was to stop it at the border and positive intervention at the source of the problem.

Now I’m sure Orbán is the next literal Hitler. I’m sure Hungary, just like any country east of Austria, is unable to hide its corruption as effectively as, say, Merkle (with her packs of nazis hunting migrants through the village streets). I’m positive you’d be happy for Fidesz’s two thirds majority to be democracy overturned.

But you’ll understand if I don’t believe much of anything I hear from liberal mouth pieces.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#208

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:08 am

Even accepting your premise that "times gone by" in Australia were some sort of naturally balanced equilibrium without any need for checks and balances (which I doubt) how far are you wiling to go to go back to the status quo in those times?
Would you support a government that overrules by executive fiat the verdict of a court over immigration or asylum matters (it happened in Hungary)?

Would you support a law that criminalizes offering information and legal support to immigrants/,asylum seekers, or reporting about the legal and human rights violations and distortions in the immigration system (such a law was passed in Hungary)?

Would you support the obligatory teaching in public schools of the tenets of a specific religion deemed important to the preservation of ethno-cultural identity?

Would you support mass expulsions ("population transfers") of socio-ethnic groups deemed a danger to the preservation ogc ethno-cultural identity?

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#207

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:54 am

Brive1987 wrote: These measures didn’t appear necessary in times gone by. In fact the unique Australian fusion of heritage, land and culture produced a society that prized a “fair go” but which looked askance at anyone “putting on the dog”. Church and state lived in uncontentious simpatico, courts had an established place and people pinballing around the globe looking for maximum economic ROI received short shrift.

Your strawmen are the same as your overwhelming fixation on the “far right”. Intellectual low hanging fruit.
Are Enlightenment principles intellectual low hanging fruit? Is the "high hanging fruit" only reserved for identitarian arguments?

Would you accept authoritrian measures to enforce your identitarian ideals? Do you think that it's fine for a government to control the judiciary? Do you think that supressing freedom of the press is fine id the goal is to preserve heritage purity?

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#205

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:44 am

These measures didn’t appear necessary in times gone by. In fact the unique Australian fusion of heritage, land and culture produced a society that prized a “fair go” but which looked askance at anyone “putting on the dog”. Church and state lived in uncontentious simpatico, courts had an established place and people pinballing around the globe looking for maximum economic ROI received short shrift.

Your strawmen are the same as your overwhelming fixation on the “far right”. Intellectual low hanging fruit.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#204

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:40 am

Brive1987 wrote:
There's a lot of ideological space between the two options you present.
Indeed. Which is why your original complaint was so hollow.
Hungary has already experienced issues of reduced separation of powers blah blah blah
You just can’t let a happy homogeneous island of content rest until it is turned into some sort of ghettoised hellhole.



Shame on you.
So separation of powers and freedom of the press are barely worth a "womp womp"?

Good to know.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#203

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:36 am

Is it fair yo say that you care more about preserving ethnic identity than about liberal democratic/Enlightenment values, Brive?

Do you see preservation of identity as more or less important than separation of powers, asylum rights as recognized by international bodies, separation of church and state, or freedom of speech and of the press?

Would you be in favor of Australia putting courts under the control of the government, revoking asylum rights, dismantling separation of church and state, and restricting freedom of speech and of the press to defend your idel of Australian identity?

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#202

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:35 am

There's a lot of ideological space between the two options you present.
Indeed. Which is why your original complaint was so hollow.
Hungary has already experienced issues of reduced separation of powers blah blah blah
You just can’t let a happy homogeneous island of content rest until it is turned into some sort of ghettoised hellhole.



Shame on you.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#201

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:30 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:09 am
I’m sure the Magyars are far less confused than you appear to be. And that’s only natural.

If Goldy’s limits on human rights extend to gas chambers I’d agree. It she removed your liberty to travel without a passport, well you might lose me on that one.
There's a lot of ideological space between the two options you present. Revoking asylum rights, enscribing discrimination based on ethnic origin into laws, favoring a specific ethnicity and religion in public institutions (for example by undermining separation of church and state), proposing and supporting "population transfers", repressing minoritarian dissent, etc.

Hungary has already experienced issues of reduced separation of powers, strong restrictions of the right of asylum, and attacks on dissent and freedom of the press.

Historically speaking, identitarian movements have a record of escalation. Even the Nazis didn't START with the gas chambers, after all.

Once you've accepted ethnic identity as the foundation of a country, where exactly do you draw the line? It's not as easy or straightforward as you seem to think.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#200

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:09 am

I’m sure the Magyars are far less confused than you appear to be. And that’s only natural.

If Goldy’s limits on human rights extend to gas chambers I’d agree. It she removed your liberty to travel without a passport, well you might lose me on that one.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#199

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:41 am

It should read: "and during World War Two"

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#198

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:40 am

Brive1987 wrote: I’m happy for Hungary to retain its ethnic identity and not have it strip mined by MC and liberal self hate.


So is it fair to say that your focus is on preserving ethnic purity trough laws, even if those laws might infringe on individual rights?
If you want to make a pitch for the restitution of the Hapsburg Empire go for it. Poland fluked it after WWI

Alas. There is a dynamic you missed that might hamper a final solution to your Jewish Question.
My argument was about how Hungary's monoculturalism is far more recent than what the main in the interview claimed, and it's largely the product of acts of force between the two World Wars and after World War Two.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#197

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:33 am

(I left out the argument by Goldy's pal with the pornstache about how Peterson's position is "satanism", because the video stops before we can see whether Goldy agrees with him or not)

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#196

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:25 am

I’m happy for Hungary to retain its ethnic identity and not have it strip mined by MC and liberal self hate. I pity and suspect anyone not revulsed by that interviewer.

If you want to make a pitch for the restitution of the Hapsburg Empire go for it. Poland fluked it after WWI

Alas. There is a dynamic you missed that might hamper a final solution to your Jewish Question.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#195

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:24 am

Brive1987 wrote: If you have a criticism maybe you should make a case rather than launch into a SJW style argument by ad hominem.
The main points of Goldy's criticism of Peterson in the video above with the Moon Landing Denialist are that he doesn't support her side, he's too focused on the individual, and that he worked for the UN (and so, she implies, for "globalism").

Goldy's argument is about putting laws in place to preserve ethno-cultural collectives, at the cost of individual human rights if necessary,

This is why she dislikes Peterson's focus on individual achievements and right, singling out how he'snmore interested in protecting freedom of speech instead of making men accepting that they have a right to be as hell.

As someone who has opposed the SocJus for their focus on collective narratives at the expense of individual rights, I side with Peterson over Goldy in this specific issue, even though I disagree with Peterson about other things he says.

If you wsnt an argument as to why individual rights are more important than collective narratives, that's a atory for another post, since this one is already long enough.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#194

by Kirbmarc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:08 am

Brive1987 wrote: If any man had the chance to turn me to unrequited love ...






:lol:
So you could say that you're an atheist supporting the idea of a state based on preserving a specific religious faith.

Is that correct?

By the way, Hungary used to have a strong Jewish minority before World War Two. Do Jews have a right to return to Hungary, since they were a significant part of Hungary's past, or are they excluded from the Hungarian Christian state?

Under the Austro-Hungarian Empire, many Czech, Polish and German speakers lived in Hungary. Their numbers declined after World War One, and fell even further after World War Two. Should Hungary encourage thrir descendants to come back, too?

Would that be an acceptable form of multiculturalism?

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#193

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:04 am

If you have a criticism maybe you should make a case rather than launch into a SJW style argument by ad hominem.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#192

by Kirbmarc » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:54 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: It turns out Faith is not a big fan of Jordan Peterson and neither is her new astrophyicist sensei.
Peterson has many flaws, but at least he's not a white identitarian. I don't like his po-mo approach to truth, or some of his socially conservative ideas, but I don't think he's an authoritarian, either. He's the Reza Aslan/Deepak Chopra of Christianity, and sometimes he's a bit of a crazy lolcow (like when he attacks Disney movies as "reprehensible propaganda"), but not someone you'd find trying to argue about Great Replacements, making videos about how non-white people in Paris are going to cause the end of France, or hanging out with the guys of the Daily Stormer.
I don’t agree with JBP, but I can’t agree with someone else who agrees with me because I disagree with something else they agree with

Classic Kirb.
More like: their reasons for not liking Peterson are not the same as mine, and they're not very good reasons, either.

If a flat earth believer makes a video about how anti-vaxxers are dumb because autism is actually caused by early exposure to the "spherical earth lie", they don't deserve much credit for being against anti-vaxxers, because they're still supporting an idea that is deeply wrong.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#191

by Brive1987 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:53 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: Faith Goldy's conspiracy theory colleague and new buddy Owen Benjamin debunks one of the lies the lame stream media has been telling us for years.
https..://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXGW4KZzFGo
Faith should drop the long form vlog and return to data driven argument.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#190

by Brive1987 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:51 pm

If any man had the chance to turn me to unrequited love ...






:lol:

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#189

by Brive1987 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:47 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: It turns out Faith is not a big fan of Jordan Peterson and neither is her new astrophyicist sensei.
Peterson has many flaws, but at least he's not a white identitarian. I don't like his po-mo approach to truth, or some of his socially conservative ideas, but I don't think he's an authoritarian, either. He's the Reza Aslan/Deepak Chopra of Christianity, and sometimes he's a bit of a crazy lolcow (like when he attacks Disney movies as "reprehensible propaganda"), but not someone you'd find trying to argue about Great Replacements, making videos about how non-white people in Paris are going to cause the end of France, or hanging out with the guys of the Daily Stormer.
I don’t agree with JBP, but I can’t agree with someone else who agrees with me because I disagree with something else they agree with

Classic Kirb.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#188

by free thoughtpolice » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:25 pm


Hilarious. :twatson:

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#187

by Kirbmarc » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:13 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: It turns out Faith is not a big fan of Jordan Peterson and neither is her new astrophyicist sensei.
Peterson has many flaws, but at least he's not a white identitarian. I don't like his po-mo approach to truth, or some of his socially conservative ideas, but I don't think he's an authoritarian, either. He's the Reza Aslan/Deepak Chopra of Christianity, and sometimes he's a bit of a crazy lolcow (like when he attacks Disney movies as "reprehensible propaganda"), but not someone you'd find trying to argue about Great Replacements, making videos about how non-white people in Paris are going to cause the end of France, or hanging out with the guys of the Daily Stormer.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#186

by free thoughtpolice » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:33 pm

It turns out Faith is not a big fan of Jordan Peterson and neither is her new astrophyicist sensei.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#185

by CaptainFluffyBunny » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:09 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:46 pm
Faith Goldy's conspiracy theory colleague and new buddy Owen Benjamin debunks one of the lies the lame stream media has been telling us for years.


Worth reading the whole thread.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#184

by free thoughtpolice » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Faith Goldy's conspiracy theory colleague and new buddy Owen Benjamin debunks one of the lies the lame stream media has been telling us for years.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#183

by Keating » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:24 am

Brive would probably find this video interesting:

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#182

by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:58 pm

Another point of view on the election task force. What Faith "Trudeau's Task Force to Secure your Smartphone" Goldy won't tell her gullible fans.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#181

by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:36 am

A new youtuber called American Patriot has come on the scene and does what women should be doing. Making more white babies and not running off at the mouth. That is a true feminist.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#180

by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:02 am

I suspect you simply can’t stand her or anything that she says. Probably her smirk.
Partly her sneering attitude, partly her dishonesty and hypocrisy, partly because she is basically a right wing mirror image of Rebecca Watson that for some reason is able to get gullible goofs to fall in love with her because she panders to their prejudices. But maybe it is unfair to dislike sneering, smirking assholes that somehow end up on the internet.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#179

by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:55 am

Brive wrote:
FG: Points out that “foreign interference” is an undefined and nebulous concept
It seems to be pretty well defined in the article:
According to Goodale, a fifth of the tweets in the last month of the U.S. election were generated by bots. "This wasn't citizens intensely engaged in the democratic process, instead it was contrived and electronically generated meddling intended to pervert the conversation," he said.

Goodale said that foreign countries working to sculpt public opinion in their domestic interest is not new, and is not wrong, as long as it's done lawfully, openly, and accurately. Though, he says, a "bright red line gets crossed" when that effort to influence is done covertly or with the intention to destabilize or manipulate.

"Increasingly the interference is higher-tech… Social media have been used to falsely slander elected officials, trolls and bots are dispatched to stoke anxiety even hysteria around sensitive issues. Fake news masquerades as legitimate information," Goodale told reporters on Wednesday.
I've been trying to explain to you that the focus of the panel is to try to counter foreign disinformation campaigns such as the ones that have been run by the Russian GRU and Internet Research Agency that have been targeting elections in a number of countries in the last several years. The attempt that Goldy is making to try and brand this as some Orwellian endeavor is just dishonest bullshit.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#178

by Brive1987 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:30 pm

I put it in “inverted commas” because I was quoting from the MSM clip.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#177

by free thoughtpolice » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:26 pm

Brive1987 wrote: Ok. A “govt appointed panel”
A panel chosen from a pool of respected professionals that have been chosen by both parties that have held power in Canada in the last 2 or 3 decades.
It's frustrating trying to engage you honestly.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#176

by free thoughtpolice » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:16 pm

Brive wrote:
FG: Questions lack of collusion indictments from M and doesn’t want moral panic to come to Canada
Of course not otherwise she would title her videos "white genocide" or "nationalist suicide". Oh wait. :P

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#175

by Brive1987 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:09 pm

Ok. A “govt appointed panel”

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#174

by Brive1987 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:07 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: Brive wrote:
Having Trudeau teach you how to think is not comforting.
We did not see a detailed and credible plan, we saw a lot of buzzwords, a lot of platitudes that should leave Canadians concerned in regards to the safeguarding of the electoral process in 2019," she said.
I don’t see FG being factually incorrect anywhere. Her OP makes the reasonable point that Govt regulation of SM content is unlikely to be entirely benign.
FG was being dishonest by showing Trudeau's picture throughout the video and implying he and the Liberal party were going to run the watchdog agency. It is completely run by non political bureaucrats.
Your quote of the Conservative spokeswoman isn't that she is worried that the Liberals would abuse the power but that she didn't think the plan laid out was specific enough and was concerned it may not be effective.
Cullen is an NDP member, and the NDP member has never formed a federal government which is a good thing because they are far left SJW types. His bitch is that the NDP never hired any bureaucrats and that the panel are career bureaucrats that have been hired by Conservative and Liberal governments.
Goldy's point is not reasonable. If you look at the facts about how the panel will operate their task is not to regulate social media as much as to identify foreign hackers, troll farms and using bots to manipulate the info out there. Her attempt to try and cast this as a deep state/ Trudeau operation to silence Canadians is just dishonest bullshit propaganda.
It seems to me that you watch a FG video and swallow it hook line and sinker. When shown evidence that she is inaccurate or dishonest you ignore that and look hard for pro Goldy points or even stretch points that don't back her up to try and fit her propaganda. I hope when you continue to upgrade your history degree you use better research methods then watching crackpot youtubers and basically swallow all of the bullshit they spew that fits your preconceived notions or what you want to believe.
Thank you for the advice. My ability to break down source material into facts, legitimate exposition and partisan narrative is just fine.

Goldy provides a mixture of all this and more. Which makes it very interesting.

MSM: “The government has formed a task force and selected 5 bureaucrats ...”
FG: Questions lack of collusion indictments from M and doesn’t want moral panic to come to Canada
FG: Highlights extent domestic monetary interference in media as counterpoise
FG: Mocks the “critical election incident Public Proticol” which is a press conference
FG: Draws attention to the govt asking SM to be even more controlling and censorious
FG: Correctly links JT pic to the govt $7m for reprogramming workshops and mocks them as undefined and possibly Orwellian
FG: Questions the management of clear conflict of interest - a govt initiative controlling information during an election year
FG: Raises the legitimate point that “fake news” is an undefined concept now owned by a govt panel
FG: Points out that “foreign interference” is an undefined and nebulous concept
FG: Questions the govt choice of aligning with MSM to police alt media during a period of media democratisation
FG: Suggests that democratised media should also be cover by the Bill of Rights “free press”
FG: Suggests that much fake news is covered by existing libel laws
FG: Provides a POV (which is debatable) that JT Govt is clamping down on altmedia. Based on her exp. I get her feelz here.

All in all an array of interesting and topical points. Worthy of more examination than a 7min video is capable of.

I suspect you simply can’t stand her or anything that she says. Probably her smirk.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#173

by free thoughtpolice » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:20 pm

Brive wrote:
Having Trudeau teach you how to think is not comforting.
We did not see a detailed and credible plan, we saw a lot of buzzwords, a lot of platitudes that should leave Canadians concerned in regards to the safeguarding of the electoral process in 2019," she said.
I don’t see FG being factually incorrect anywhere. Her OP makes the reasonable point that Govt regulation of SM content is unlikely to be entirely benign.
FG was being dishonest by showing Trudeau's picture throughout the video and implying he and the Liberal party were going to run the watchdog agency. It is completely run by non political bureaucrats.
Your quote of the Conservative spokeswoman isn't that she is worried that the Liberals would abuse the power but that she didn't think the plan laid out was specific enough and was concerned it may not be effective.
Cullen is an NDP member, and the NDP member has never formed a federal government which is a good thing because they are far left SJW types. His bitch is that the NDP never hired any bureaucrats and that the panel are career bureaucrats that have been hired by Conservative and Liberal governments.
Goldy's point is not reasonable. If you look at the facts about how the panel will operate their task is not to regulate social media as much as to identify foreign hackers, troll farms and using bots to manipulate the info out there. Her attempt to try and cast this as a deep state/ Trudeau operation to silence Canadians is just dishonest bullshit propaganda.
It seems to me that you watch a FG video and swallow it hook line and sinker. When shown evidence that she is inaccurate or dishonest you ignore that and look hard for pro Goldy points or even stretch points that don't back her up to try and fit her propaganda. I hope when you continue to upgrade your history degree you use better research methods then watching crackpot youtubers and basically swallow all of the bullshit they spew that fits your preconceived notions or what you want to believe.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#172

by Brive1987 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:43 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: There are of course serious questions around whether genocidal intent can be exercised outside a functioning civil/military structure. Maybe Rwanda was a particularly viscous tribal war.

Anyway, FG was more interested in new measures for the forthcoming election. I was interested in how this converged with other forms of civic control (based on dubious terms) and how such control was focused with cultural intent. You provided interesting detail around past and extant measures in Canada.
The internet monitoring that Goldy alludes to won't be silencing Canadians input into the election as she implies. It is specifically aimed at foreign interference. Another example of her dishonesty . Really, if you want accurate information about what is going on in Canada don't count on getting it from her. There are respectable conservative journalists and editorialists in Canada. She isn't one of them.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-un ... -1.4274273
Maybe not. From your link.
Should an instance of foreign meddling or another interference attempt arise
Responding to the announcement, NDP democratic reform critic Nathan Cullen criticized that Elections Canada's Chief Electoral Officer is not a part of this team.

"The one person who is hired by Parliament not by the sitting government, as is the case of everybody else on that protocol committee because there can be no whiff of any hint of partisanship or decision making in the release of such volatile information," Cullen said.
As part of this effort the government is spending $7 million on "digital, news, and civic literacy programming."
Having Trudeau teach you how to think is not comforting.
We did not see a detailed and credible plan, we saw a lot of buzzwords, a lot of platitudes that should leave Canadians concerned in regards to the safeguarding of the electoral process in 2019," she said.
I don’t see FG being factually incorrect anywhere. Her OP makes the reasonable point that Govt regulation of SM content is unlikely to be entirely benign.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#171

by free thoughtpolice » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:14 am

Brive1987 wrote: There are of course serious questions around whether genocidal intent can be exercised outside a functioning civil/military structure. Maybe Rwanda was a particularly viscous tribal war.

Anyway, FG was more interested in new measures for the forthcoming election. I was interested in how this converged with other forms of civic control (based on dubious terms) and how such control was focused with cultural intent. You provided interesting detail around past and extant measures in Canada.
The internet monitoring that Goldy alludes to won't be silencing Canadians input into the election as she implies. It is specifically aimed at foreign interference. Another example of her dishonesty . Really, if you want accurate information about what is going on in Canada don't count on getting it from her. There are respectable conservative journalists and editorialists in Canada. She isn't one of them.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-un ... -1.4274273

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#170

by Brive1987 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:14 pm

There are of course serious questions around whether genocidal intent can be exercised outside a functioning civil/military structure. Maybe Rwanda was a particularly viscous tribal war.

Anyway, FG was more interested in new measures for the forthcoming election. I was interested in how this converged with other forms of civic control (based on dubious terms) and how such control was focused with cultural intent. You provided interesting detail around past and extant measures in Canada.

Re: National identity overflow thread (inclusive of liberal worldview screeds)

#169

by free thoughtpolice » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:54 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: From notable hate crime cases since 1970:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_spee ... _in_Canada
Section 318: Advocating genocide
Brive said:

The free speech forest comprises the confluence of trends. Not just individual trees. Hate crime and fake news are undefinable terms selectively applied for social objectives by the institutions of a social-left predominant culture.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-05/ ... ms/8874804

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-45871407
This is a quote Bork. Nb my red note above.
That post doesn't make sense. It seems like you have inserted some nonsense to the links I provided. Fake goldy was shovelling bullshit about Canadian law and you respond with a news articles about 2 dubious Aus cases. This has fuck all to do with the Canadian law against advocating genocide which has seldom been used, the last noteworthy time was when we deported one of the Rwandan scumbags behind the genocide there to face justice.
Surely you don't dispute the wisdom of that judgment?

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